Another Pearl Article On Training Babies

[ilovetchotchkes]

I got the sarcasm...just fyi

ETA- I'm Jewish and wasn't offended. Some people interpret things differently or don't always pick up on the sarcasm of the written word.

I'm Jewish too and I think this comment was hysterical. It was definitely sarcasm.

[holothuroidea]

@Conuly- I got the snark, and I thought it was brilliant.

Fundies live in a state of perpetual fear. It would not surprise me at all if they REALLY believe that Obama is a reincarnation of Hitler and that "The Gaytheists" are going to come an persecute them. The fact that infant abuse even makes sense to them at all on any level is pretty indicative of where their minds are at.

[desertvixen]

but how can a woman be so lacking in maternal instinct as to purposely hurt her NEWBORN in order to prevent developmentally-appropriate behavior?

Because the same people who chastise us for not having MOAR KIDZ because they're "too expensive" or "inconvenient" don't want to be inconvenienced by, you know, normal behavior.

Does getting up in the middle of the night when you have to work the next day and all you want is SLEEP suck? Yes.

Does it drive people crazy to find new places for stuff you never thought your kid could even get into without being Houdini reincarnate? Yes.

Is shaping children and helping them learn how we act in society sometimes tedious and thankless? Yes.

But they're all part of being a parent. I won't lie, I have spanked my (now 5 years old) daughter in frustration and being at the end of my rope in the past. It made me feel worse than it made her feel, and it didn't work because I'm not going to beat my kid into submission. I can't understand how people can.

[ilovetchotchkes]

@Conuly- I got the snark, and I thought it was brilliant.

Fundies live in a state of perpetual fear. It would not surprise me at all if they REALLY believe that Obama is a reincarnation of Hitler and that "The Gaytheists" are going to come an persecute them. The fact that infant abuse even makes sense to them at all on any level is pretty indicative of where their minds are at.

Someone I used to be friends with is CONVINCED that Obama is the new Hitler. When I pointed out that #1 Hitlers' agenda was killing all Jews, and Obamas (now former) chief of staff is a Jew (Modern Orthodox to boot!!!), AND #2, Hitler would have hated Obamas guts because he wasn't blonde haired and blue eyed and that he was completely ridiculous and being a hateful racist, i got the "I"ll pray for your to see the light" line. :roll:

[BlondeAgent007]

Just curious -- were debi and michael raised with this same style of discipline? Or did they invent the system themselves? They're incredibly smug for a couple whose practices have killed kids.

[Witsec7]

Just curious -- were debi and michael raised with this same style of discipline? Or did they invent the system themselves? They're incredibly smug for a couple whose practices have killed kids.

Do you ever read anything? Seriously, you keep asking folks to spoon feed you info like you are some bird in the nest askin' for a fresh worm.

[debrand]

Just curious -- were debi and michael raised with this same style of discipline? Or did they invent the system themselves? They're incredibly smug for a couple whose practices have killed kids.

I don't know. However, sometimes I wonder if Michael Pearl was sexually abused as a child. Some of the memories that his kids have written about him make it appear that he was obsessed with protecting them from sexual abuse. He didn't let the kids go on any sleepovers, for instance.

[BlondeAgent007]

I don't research the Pearls. Every time I start to I just end up feeling incredibly angry and frustrated. Certain fundies I can stomach because they make me laugh. The Pearls don't make me laugh at all. They make me want to scream.

Thanks debrand, that's a really good speculation. It seems like people that are so very violent could have roots of abuse in their past. It doesn't give him any type of excuse, of course. I just really don't get these people.

[CrazySister]

(snip) However, sometimes I wonder if Michael Pearl was sexually abused as a child. Some of the memories that his kids have written about him make it appear that he was obsessed with protecting them from sexual abuse. He didn't let the kids go on any sleepovers, for instance.

I've wondered along the same lines. He didn't let the kids do sleepovers, but yet he had the 5 minute rule for the door being closed when the kids were at home. He's definately (ok, similar to many other fundies snarked on here) beyond-obsessed with sex and anatomy and purity and whatever the hell else the perv can come up with. Definately not normal.

[debrand]

I found another older article about training young children. In this one, the mother asks how to keep her child still in a church service. The boy is 18 months old and the mother wonders if she should remove him for a spanking when he acts up.

Michael Pearl is attributed as the writer of this answer

Set up a training session each day, duplicating as closely as possible the church service. Sit in uncomfortable chairs and play some hymns on the stereo. Then play teaching or preaching tapes while the family sits quietly and listens. Or you can sit beside him and read the Bible in a monotone voice. Better yet, if you don’t have the electronic media and you are able to induce your spouse to assist you, let your husband pretend he is the preacher and carry on for a little while, saying nothing interesting. [Mike wrote the above line, not me.] Keep your switch handy, but not visible during this session. Speak in a whisper or use sign language as you would in church. If the child offends at a level that would be inappropriate in church, then swat him while making your sign language or while whispering your correction.

He needs to know you are not mad at him; you are helping him learn to do a new thing. The first day, he may feel very mistreated and be unhappy. For that reason, you may want to keep your first sessions rather short, and build up to one hour. As the days progress, he will slowly figure out what is required of him and he will get more content. If you can’t get him to sit still at home during these sessions, then don’t take him in public where you will upset others.

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/sittin ... in-church/

[ilovetchotchkes]

I found another older article about training young children. In this one, the mother asks how to keep her child still in a church service. The boy is 18 months old and the mother wonders if she should remove him for a spanking when he acts up.

Michael Pearl is attributed as the writer of this answer

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/sittin ... in-church/

OR MAYBE you shoudln't expect an 18 month old to sit during church?

Lets all say it together: DE-VEL-OP-MENT-ALLY- A-PROP-RI-ATE BE-HAV-IOR ARRRGHGHGHHGHG

I hate the pearls....

[holothuroidea]

My best advice in this situation would be DO NOT GO TO CHURCH. Go play at a park instead.

Then again I'm an atheist who thinks babies are not evil spirits that need taming, so maybe I am biased.

[CrazySister]

I never fail to find their advice utterly appalling. Like other posters have said, they ooze out their ignorance of child development every time they write. :evil:

[Tator Tot Tubby]

Sounds like a spin on blanket training. It also reminds me of Michelle Duggar in that interview where she talked about teaching her kids to sit quietly in chairs.

[DarkAnts]

*rereads bolded part*

No, it seems clear to me. If you genuinely think that my comment was meant seriously, I simply have nothing to say to that.

This is why I should stay off the internet when having a panic attack. Sorry for calling you stupid. I will say that sarcasm can be lost on the internet. We cant hear the tone of the speaker. I am often left wondering what the intent of the person is. I can usually rationalize based on what site I am reading from. Panic attacks take away my ability to be rational.

[DarkAnts]

OR MAYBE you shoudln't expect an 18 month old to sit during church?

Lets all say it together: DE-VEL-OP-MENT-ALLY- A-PROP-RI-ATE BE-HAV-IOR ARRRGHGHGHHGHG

I hate the pearls....

I hate it when people expect young children to sit still in church. They just dont have the capacity to do that for an extended period of time. I love it when I visit a church and see the toddlers playing in the back of the church. They are usually quiet and content playing with toys their parents brought for them. They sometimes dance to the music or try to sing. It just makes me smile to see little kids playing and dancing. They dont care if a child says something in response to the pastures sermon. The churches I visit are inclusive. They dont care if you come in jeans and a tee shirt or are dressed in a suit. They dont care about your sexual preference, sex or religious views.

[Conuly]

This is why I should stay off the internet when having a panic attack. Sorry for calling you stupid. I will say that sarcasm can be lost on the internet. We cant hear the tone of the speaker. I am often left wondering what the intent of the person is. I can usually rationalize based on what site I am reading from. Panic attacks take away my ability to be rational.

That's all right, I'm sorry for snapping at you as well. I try to remember manners, but sometimes...!

Set up a training session each day, duplicating as closely as possible the church service. Sit in uncomfortable chairs and play some hymns on the stereo. Then play teaching or preaching tapes while the family sits quietly and listens. Or you can sit beside him and read the Bible in a monotone voice. Better yet, if you don’t have the electronic media and you are able to induce your spouse to assist you, let your husband pretend he is the preacher and carry on for a little while, saying nothing interesting. [Mike wrote the above line, not me.] Keep your switch handy, but not visible during this session. Speak in a whisper or use sign language as you would in church. If the child offends at a level that would be inappropriate in church, then swat him while making your sign language or while whispering your correction.

Did... he just say that church is boring, uncomfortable, tedious, and totally unfulfilling? Is there some reason they can't find a better church? Or is it sinful to be interested and physically comfortable during services?

[JaChelle Sugar]

If church was fun that would teach teh children that fun was good! F*n is a bad word, just ask the Maxwell's.

[Kitty]

That's all right, I'm sorry for snapping at you as well. I try to remember manners, but sometimes...!

Did... he just say that church is boring, uncomfortable, tedious, and totally unfulfilling? Is there some reason they can't find a better church? Or is it sinful to be interested and physically comfortable during services?

Maybe he's talking from the kid's point of view? Or maybe he really is convinced that that's the way things should be. Ugh.

[Kaylee]

Maybe he's talking from the kid's point of view? Or maybe he really is convinced that that's the way things should be. Ugh.

Given Debi's comment about Mike writing it, I think they may have been trying to be funny.

I'm pretty sure Michael Pearl is the preacher at their church, so it may have been sort of a joke it his expense, that he knows people see it that way.

[holothuroidea]

Given Debi's comment about Mike writing it, I think they may have been trying to be funny.

I'm pretty sure Michael Pearl is the preacher at their church, so it may have been sort of a joke it his expense, that he knows people see it that way.

I sincerely hope that the Preacher Pearl is boring as hell and people sleep or at least zone out during his hate-sermons.

[genericJname]

It's disturbing how many people have children yet have no idea of the normal development behavior of infants, toddlers and children. Why don't they pick up one or two child development books while pregnant and read up on what is normal expected behavior? I'm almost in despair over the level of ignorance.

Child development books are written by liberal public school indoctrinators.

[thoughtful]

I found another older article about training young children. In this one, the mother asks how to keep her child still in a church service. The boy is 18 months old and the mother wonders if she should remove him for a spanking when he acts up.

Michael Pearl is attributed as the writer of this answer

http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/sittin ... in-church/

As ever, besides being cruel and delusional, the Pearls demonstrate that they think they know how to use behavioral techniques, when they don't have a clue.

Setting up a "practice version" of something -- playing "church," as it were, would not be a bad idea, if one:

- waited until the child showed an interest

- waited until the child was actually old enough

- built up from very short, developmentally appropriate lengths of time

- rewarded to reinforce desired behavior, or made the whole thing fun

- didn't expose the child to the real-life version until the whole process was quite far along, and the child old enough to transition smoothly from one to the other

- never tried to punish in either the practice or real-life situations, but removed the child before unwanted behavior happened, by being attuned to natural restlessness.

But that seems to be beyond them.

Notice how the switch is to be handy and used, but not visible (since, if one was not a member of the Pearl's church, one might need to conceal it in church).

Fuckers.

[alba]

OR MAYBE you shoudln't expect an 18 month old to sit during church?

Lets all say it together: DE-VEL-OP-MENT-ALLY- A-PROP-RI-ATE BE-HAV-IOR ARRRGHGHGHHGHG

I hate the pearls....

Here's the thing. I'm one of those people who would get annoyed if a toddler disrupted my enjoyment of a sermon every week, not because the kid's not being forced to behave but because the kid's being forced to sit through something they get no benefit from in such a way that everyone loses out. There's a reason most churches have a creche for infants and toddlers. It lets them play and explore in a way that's suitable for their age without disrupting the service.

[Veronica Mars Rover]

I don't want to sound like Zsu, but a small child can learn to sit through church. We started at 18 months and now at almost 4, he makes it through a service without disrupting everyone. But it took a lot of patience and ritual before we got there. In the early days, one of us would take him home after the second hymn. Then he started staying a little longer, and a little longer, until he started making it through the entire hour. He has quiet toys, books, and art supplies that are just for church. He has a snack when the sermon begins. There's also a lot of participation--we sit close to the front, so he can ask questions and see what's happening, and he likes to walk with me when I take communion or wander around when it's time to give the sign of peace.

What the Pearls are describing, though? A monotone, endless, boring hour-plus of sitting and listening without being engaged with the environment? That's not developmentally appropriate for anyone.

Another thing about the Pearls IMHO is that they are lazy. Much easier to beat a child to get them to behave than it is to have to redirect them again and again with gentle guidance.

THIS.