Another Pearl Article On Training Babies

[Tator Tot Tubby]

I don't think anyone can do anything about that book in U.S., as long as spanking is legal over there...

You can sign here though, and help to ban the book on Amazon: http://www.change.org/petitions/jeff-be ... f-children

Spanking is legal, but the abuse outlined in this book isn't. A woman got sent arrested for giving her kid hot sauce. I really don't get how this was allowed to be published. I don't see how anyone could advocate for a book that encourages beating an infant.

Edited because I'm a dummy

[Mommy22alyns]

It never ceases to astonish me, their utter cruelty. :evil:

[DistantStar]

I am firmly convinced they use the term "spanking" because to most of us that word conjures up a swat or two on a clothed behind, such as the few such spankings I got. I don't even remember being spanked. At that level, long term, no harm done, even if it's not a good idea. Other motivators worked just fine on me.

Flicking a newborn? Hitting toddlers with plumbing line for showing normal developmental behavior? That's not "spanking." That's abuse. That's beating. That's cruelty. Calling that spanking is at best a lie of omission, at worst a deliberate deception.

[geniebelle6901]

Has anyone ever brought this sort of stuff to child services? I feel like it wouldn't be hard to have this book banned.

If there was ever a book worthy of a mass book burning, it would be this one. But, there's this thing called Free Speech, so getting it banned by legal means probably won't happen. But a boycott of the retailers might work. I posted a list of some of the major online retailers that sold it. I don't know if it's sold in major physical stores or not. Print out your invoices or receipts, and as politely as you can tell them that you can no longer order from them because they sell TTUAC because it advocates child abuse. Make sure you send it via regular mail. Emails will only get laughed at and deleted or caught by spam filters, nasty hate mail will immediately be thrown in the trash.

[Sunnichick31]

A couple months ago I had my best friend and her 1.5 year old son and a couple other people over for dinner. We were eating on the floor (kitchen table only seats two.) Our plates were on the floor, and while all of the food was set up on the table/counters, we had the sodas on the floor with us so we could get refills whenever. My BFF's son (he's a real comedian. I love him!!) picked up a half empty 2 liter bottle of coke and was carrying it around. All of a sudden, he decided that I needed more coke, so he dropped the bottle right on my plate. Salsa and chips went everywhere. Did I get out the plumbing line? No. Instead, I laughed my ass off till i couldn't breathe, I was crying, and my abs hurt. THAT is how you respond to a toddler! NOT by beating him! (of course, that was wrong of me cause then he knew that dropping coke bottles everywhere would make me laugh, so he kept trying to do it over again. Oh well!)

I seriously don't understand the Pearls. When I think of my BFFs son, or any of the other babies I know, I can't imagine purposly hurting them, or even allowing them to get seriously injured by themselves. (and by that I mean allowing them to play somewhere they shouldn't just to teach them a lesson. obviously kids will have a few bumps and bruises from falling off bikes, climbing trees, and doing whatever else kids do). Anyone who would follow the Pearls should have their plumbing line shoved sideways where the sun doesn't shine. How do these people not know that a baby throws something in order to learn. If a 7 month old throws a toy, maybe it'll end up on the floor, or maybe it'll end up orbiting around him/her. The 7 month old doesn't know! And the only way they learn is by throwing the toy over and over and over again! These people infuriate me.

[Arielkay]

Why don't they arrest THE PEARLS? They're wanting to arrest women who "might" have caused a miscarriage of a fetus. But hey, if they want to encourage beating infants and children to an inch of their life, then hey, it's free speech!

[Mela99]

I can't even fathom the newborn stuff.... Just.. mindblown.

Cause and effect and the ability to anticipate a reaction isn't even biologically possible until babies are around eight or nine months old. That portion of the brain isn't even fully developed.

Isn't the whole damn point of parenting to TEACH them? These crazy asses act like kids should come out of the womb limb and silent and stay that way. Did you learn to walk in one day? Drive? Learn a new skill? NO. STOP EXPECTING BABIES TO. The whole point of growing up is learning and exploring.

Has anybody ever heard about 'crying cures'? This one never fails to shock me. There is actually a practice out there where, as soon as a baby is born, a "teacher" will be there to "cure the crying". After the first breath they take, they reach out and pinch the baby's nose shut until it decides to breathe, not cry. And then they let go. If the baby cries again, they repeat it. Until the baby stops. They consider it the "first step of obedient behavior."

I nearly called bullshit when my anthro prof told us this story. But when she was a social worker, she investigated a couple who had their baby taken away in the hospital - minutes old - for pulling this.

[jaynie]

Has anybody ever heard about 'crying cures'? This one never fails to shock me. There is actually a practice out there where, as soon as a baby is born, a "teacher" will be there to "cure the crying". After the first breath they take, they reach out and pinch the baby's nose shut until it decides to breathe, not cry. And then they let go. If the baby cries again, they repeat it. Until the baby stops. They consider it the "first step of obedient behavior."

I nearly called bullshit when my anthro prof told us this story. But when she was a social worker, she investigated a couple who had their baby taken away in the hospital - minutes old - for pulling this.

:shock: Words fail.

[CrazySister]

:shock: Words fail.

I cannot fathom the mentality of someone who believes this to not only not be harmful, but a GOOD THING! WTF?!? Words do indeed fail! How that emotionally imprints on the newborn I can't even begin to imagine! :cry:

[SealFan1963]

The Pearls are quite possibly the most vile people on this earth.

Flicking a newborn? Slapping the hand of a 7 month old baby with a spatula? Punishing a 14 month old for picking specks off the floor 20 to 30 times a day? Try sweeping your freaking floor you stupid bitch.

I have two kids and have taken care of lots of babies and I can't imagine a reason for ever flicking a newborn, there is no more innocent creature on this planet than a newborn (human or critter).

When my kids got mobile enough to start getting into stuff I used to tell them no and redirect them. If that still didn't get their attention, I would squeeze their hand a tiny bit, especially if they were holding the item. There is no reason to ever strike a baby!

Another thing about the Pearls IMHO is that they are lazy. Much easier to beat a child to get them to behave than it is to have to redirect them again and again with gentle guidance.

I don't think I can read about them anymore, it's really bad for my blood pressure.

[SpeakNow]

It's like they've never heard of positive reinforcement. Children who are reinforced (with praise, stickers, a sense of accomplishment etc) are more likely to engage in activities and behaviors for which they are rewarded. Have the Pearls never heard of rewarding good behavior. I would rather have my child exhibit good behavior because it is reinforced (either intrinsically or extrinsically) and not because he's scared shitless that I'll beat him for misbehaving.

[CrazySister]

It's like they've never heard of positive reinforcement. Children who are reinforced (with praise, stickers, a sense of accomplishment etc) are more likely to engage in activities and behaviors for which they are rewarded. Have the Pearls never heard of rewarding good behavior. I would rather have my child exhibit good behavior because it is reinforced (either intrinsically or extrinsically) and not because he's scared shitless that I'll beat him for misbehaving.

YES! A million times this!

[Talitha Cumi]

There is actually a practice out there where, as soon as a baby is born, a "teacher" will be there to "cure the crying". After the first breath they take, they reach out and pinch the baby's nose shut until it decides to breathe, not cry. And then they let go. If the baby cries again, they repeat it. Until the baby stops. They consider it the "first step of obedient behavior."

I nearly called bullshit when my anthro prof told us this story. But when she was a social worker, she investigated a couple who had their baby taken away in the hospital - minutes old - for pulling this.

What's next, punching a pregnant woman in the uterus because the baby kicks too hard? I'm appalled!

[emmiedahl]

:shock: Words fail.

I have heard of the FLDS doing something similar, putting a baby's face under running water every time they cry until they learn not to.

It is appalling and you *should* have your child taken away if you do that. I think allowing a baby to go home with anyone with that approach toward parenting is another Sean Paddock waiting to happen. Last time I checked, there were plenty of nice gay families waiting to adopt who would cherish that child and never lay on hand or a piece of plumbing line on them.

[DarkAnts]

A couple months ago I had my best friend and her 1.5 year old son and a couple other people over for dinner. We were eating on the floor (kitchen table only seats two.) Our plates were on the floor, and while all of the food was set up on the table/counters, we had the sodas on the floor with us so we could get refills whenever. My BFF's son (he's a real comedian. I love him!!) picked up a half empty 2 liter bottle of coke and was carrying it around. All of a sudden, he decided that I needed more coke, so he dropped the bottle right on my plate. Salsa and chips went everywhere. Did I get out the plumbing line? No. Instead, I laughed my ass off till i couldn't breathe, I was crying, and my abs hurt. THAT is how you respond to a toddler! NOT by beating him! (of course, that was wrong of me cause then he knew that dropping coke bottles everywhere would make me laugh, so he kept trying to do it over again. Oh well!)

I seriously don't understand the Pearls. When I think of my BFFs son, or any of the other babies I know, I can't imagine purposly hurting them, or even allowing them to get seriously injured by themselves. (and by that I mean allowing them to play somewhere they shouldn't just to teach them a lesson. obviously kids will have a few bumps and bruises from falling off bikes, climbing trees, and doing whatever else kids do). Anyone who would follow the Pearls should have their plumbing line shoved sideways where the sun doesn't shine. How do these people not know that a baby throws something in order to learn. If a 7 month old throws a toy, maybe it'll end up on the floor, or maybe it'll end up orbiting around him/her. The 7 month old doesn't know! And the only way they learn is by throwing the toy over and over and over again! These people infuriate me.

:lol: The boy was trying to be helpful. I would have laughed too and then thanked him for bringing me the soda. Then, ask him to help me clean up the mess. His intent was not to be naughty or willful.

Kids that age are great. I would love to crawl into their minds and figure out their logic. I think they are also proof that god has a sense of humor.

[doggie]

Has anybody ever heard about 'crying cures'? This one never fails to shock me. There is actually a practice out there where, as soon as a baby is born, a "teacher" will be there to "cure the crying". After the first breath they take, they reach out and pinch the baby's nose shut until it decides to breathe, not cry. And then they let go. If the baby cries again, they repeat it. Until the baby stops. They consider it the "first step of obedient behavior."

so is this supposed to teach the baby to say please feed me right away? the only form of communication a baby has and someone wants to take it away.

[DarkAnts]

Has anybody ever heard about 'crying cures'? This one never fails to shock me. There is actually a practice out there where, as soon as a baby is born, a "teacher" will be there to "cure the crying". After the first breath they take, they reach out and pinch the baby's nose shut until it decides to breathe, not cry. And then they let go. If the baby cries again, they repeat it. Until the baby stops. They consider it the "first step of obedient behavior."

I nearly called bullshit when my anthro prof told us this story. But when she was a social worker, she investigated a couple who had their baby taken away in the hospital - minutes old - for pulling this.

What about the period of purple crying? Those poor babies could be killed for something that is part of development.

[emmiedahl]

What about the period of purple crying? Those poor babies could be killed for something that is part of development.

I don't think fundies want teh eebil science telling them how to raise their children. Developmental appropriateness is the work of the Debbil.

[Conuly]

You know, training your infant baby not to cry may not be awful parenting.

If, say, you're planning on spending the next 3+ years in hiding from the Nazis, ensuring that your infant won't reveal you all and give you away is damn GOOD parenting. Running from evil slave masters? Same deal. Better teach them long before you plan to flee. Sometimes quietening drugs work all too well.

So maybe we're judging too harshly. We think that the existence of an internet connection means they're living in the modern western world where these things are unlikely to be necessary, but maybe we're wrong and they're really trapped in a portal to the VERY SUCKY PAST where things that would normally be abusive are, instead, a sad but necessary part of survival.

Those poor dears!

[geniebelle6901]

I have heard of the FLDS doing something similar, putting a baby's face under running water every time they cry until they learn not to.

It is appalling and you *should* have your child taken away if you do that. I think allowing a baby to go home with anyone with that approach toward parenting is another Sean Paddock waiting to happen. Last time I checked, there were plenty of nice gay families waiting to adopt who would cherish that child and never lay on hand or a piece of plumbing line on them.

Then said child needs to be removed from their abusive home and placed with the gay family. What's mentioned above it smothering and drowning basically! :evil:

[SeaSaltCaramel]

I don't think anyone can do anything about that book in U.S., as long as spanking is legal over there...

You can sign here though, and help to ban the book on Amazon: http://www.change.org/petitions/jeff-be ... f-children

Thanks for this. I just signed the petition. it's pretty close to having 15,000 signatures. It was at 11,000 when I just signed.

Just reading from this thread makes me nauseated. I don't know if I could read directly from NGJ's site without going off on the NutJob Pearls.

[DarkAnts]

You know, training your infant baby not to cry may not be awful parenting.

If, say, you're planning on spending the next 3+ years in hiding from the Nazis, ensuring that your infant won't reveal you all and give you away is damn GOOD parenting. Running from evil slave masters? Same deal. Better teach them long before you plan to flee. Sometimes quietening drugs work all too well.

So maybe we're judging too harshly. We think that the existence of an internet connection means they're living in the modern western world where these things are unlikely to be necessary, but maybe we're wrong and they're really trapped in a portal to the VERY SUCKY PAST where things that would normally be abusive are, instead, a sad but necessary part of survival.

Those poor dears!

The stupidity of this comment burns. :evil: The people doing this sort of parenting are NOT jews hiding from Nazis or slaves!! Its offensive to think that you would liken the fundis to the jews or slaves. Their children are not in danger of being killed or in slaved. Its just piss poor parenting.

[Conuly]

The stupidity of this comment burns. :evil: The people doing this sort of parenting are NOT Jews hiding from Nazis or slaves! It's offensive to think that you would liken the fundies to Jews or slaves. Their children are not in danger of being killed or enslaved. It's just piss-poor parenting.

*rereads bolded part*

No, it seems clear to me. If you genuinely think that my comment was meant seriously, I simply have nothing to say to that.

[SpeakNow]

*rereads bolded part*

No, it seems clear to me. If you genuinely think that my comment was meant seriously, I simply have nothing to say to that.

I got the sarcasm...just fyi

ETA- I'm Jewish and wasn't offended. Some people interpret things differently or don't always pick up on the sarcasm of the written word.

[Katiebug]

Honestly, I'm pretty horrified by a mother who thinks it's a good idea to "flick" a newborn. The Pearls are beyond redemption, IMO, but how can a woman be so lacking in maternal instinct as to purposely hurt her NEWBORN in order to prevent developmentally-appropriate behavior?