Another Pearl Article On Training Babies

[debrand]

The mother of a seven month old infant writes in to ask how often she should spank her daughter. When her daughter reaches for items, the mother swats her hand but her daughter seems slow to learn the intended lesson.

Mike's answer

Mike: One of the things I am impressed with there is she says it seems like almost everything is off limits for the child, and that is a fact of life. In my own house, most of what’s in my house is off limits to me. In other words, I don’t go into my daughters’ rooms and handle their toys, their objects, or their pictures or their treasures. I don’t get into their drawers. I don’t go into their closets. I don’t go into my boys’ rooms. I don’t go in there and touch and handle their vehicles. I don’t drive their vehicles without asking. When you go into a store, much of what is in a store is off limits. You can’t get into the jewelry case. You can’t get into where the watches are. It’s locked behind the glass. You can’t go into a grocery store and pick up anything that you see and stick it into your mouth. Most of life is full of limits. And when a child is born there are no limits. As I said the child knows pain. The child knows pleasure. The child has a want, a need, and then the need develops into a want. The want develops into a demand, and the demand develops into indulgence; and pretty soon the child is living a life of passion and indulgences and fulfillment. The job of a parent is to train that child to fit into society; to train that child to make adjustments NOW before it becomes embarrassing. If the child is trained at 7 months, then at 17 months you won’t have her throwing a fit in the grocery store because she expects to have everything that she sees sitting around her and be able to put it into her mouth. So YES, almost everything IS off limits to a child, and that’s a lesson you’ve got to communicate to your daughter. And you have to communicate it NOW while it’s easy. Later on it will be much more difficult.

Debbi's answer

Debi: I was just thinking, you said you did make some mistakes. You allowed your child to play with your hair and your necklaces, and now you have to go back. It is true that it takes a lot longer to re-train than it does to train. So right now you are having to train and un-train an already very WELL-trained child. That child has been trained that she can grab your hair, your necklace, somebody’s glasses, and she gets a little flick. Well, the flick was for a newborn. You have a 7 month old and that baby’s old enough to understand the word NO, and so you’re doing some back-walking. You are re-doing what you have already messed up. So it’s going take a little bit more reinforcement and maybe a little heavier reinforcement than a flick, now that the child is 7 months old

http://nogreaterjoy.org/audio/mail-bag-babies/

I'm not breaking the link because I am pretty certain they know we discuss them

[CrazySister]

Debi: "...the flick is for the newborn." :angry-banghead: Was looking for the vomit smilie and couldn't find it. Headbanger works, tho.

[2xx1xy1JD]

What kind of "heavier reinforcement" do you use on a 7 mo old BABY?

Tell me again how this sort of advice is in no way, shape or form abusive, irresponsible or connected in any way to folks who own their book and cause serious damage or death to children?

Again, exploring and mouthing things is developmentally NORMAL for babies of this age. If a child is developmentally normal, this behavior will end on its own. Older children don't stick everything in their mouths unless they have developmental or sensory issues.

[debrand]

This comment saddened me. If what you are doing doesn't work, do something else. Spanking is not working for this woman's child so stop!

Melissa

I have a 14 month old son and have sought to implement your methods of child training since he was born. I am amazed though, at his persistence to touch off limit items, despite my consistency. I remember days (a few months ago) when he would try to pick up specks of food/dirt off the kitchen floor, 20 or 30 times a day he would get a swat on the hand with a rubber spatula, hard enough to make him cry, and yet would continue to try. If he was across the room from me and managed to actually pick something up and put it in his mouth, I would say “NO!†as soon as I saw him reaching for it (he would still put it in his mouth) and then I would swat his hand and flick his cheek saying “Don’t eat specks†as soon as I got to him. Was my mistake in ever letting him be out of reach so that he was able to put things in his mouth before I interfered? He’s lost his fascination with specks of dirt at this point but still acts similarly with other items, such as tissue boxes. Will he ever learn that tissue boxes are always off limits or will I always have to be there to tell him “No†when he is attempting to touch them? I understand that parenting is a job that requires much vigilance, and I’m up to the task, but it’s a bit discouraging at this point to not be getting the results I expected. Similarly, when I ask him to “Come†it always follows the same pattern: I say “Come,†he disobeys, I walk over to him and swat his leg, then he follows me crying back to the spot where I originally made my request. He almost NEVER will come at the first request, only after being swatted. I’d appreciate any thoughts or advice

[mastercleaner]

As the mom of an almost 6 month old, that is disgusting

Isn't the whole point of babies throwing and dropping things, development and such?

Why would I hit her for throwing things? I'm happy that shes developing and that her brain is working!

And when she throws and drops things, I laugh and it gets her to laugh!!

Im sure that my 6 month old pulls on my hair to piss me off! ya! :roll:

What an Assbutt! :evil:

[alba]

This comment saddened me. If what you are doing doesn't work, do something else. Spanking is not working for this woman's child so stop!

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about children, but this sounds to me like he doesn't do as told until swatted either because he understands the swatting to be inevitable or because he doesn't understand requests to be requests unless accompanied by a swat.

How sad that people believe this is how to bring up their children :(

[ilovetchotchkes]

I'll be the first to admit I don't know much about children, but this sounds to me like he doesn't do as told until swatted either because he understands the swatting to be inevitable or because he doesn't understand requests to be requests unless accompanied by a swat.

How sad that people believe this is how to bring up their children :(

*squishy hugs her delightfully willfull 2 year old*

What i seriously don't get is that they advocate beating children for stuff thats #1 developmentally appropriate and #2, if your house is full of dirt to that point that you're constantly telling your child to stop eating dirt all over the house, then MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE A BREAK FROM BEATING YOUR CHILD AND CLEAN YOUR HOUSE.

I mean, i'm not one to talk, there's cheerios in my couch, but dude if i yelled at my kid every time he did that? he's such a stinker that he'd ignore me. However, taking it out of his hand, telling him "oooh that's yucky! lets eat this instead!!!" and then redirecting and handing him a bag of cheerios or goldfish or an apple, or some strawberries? he realizes not to eat it and that strawberries are a HELL of a lot yummier than the potato peel that I missed when I was cleaning up the kitchen. FWIW, this worked even when he was TINY- i'd hand him a teether with mushed up food in it. He stopped putting non food in his mouth within about 2-3 weeks.... when i'd say "nope kiddo! don't put it in your mouth!!!! we only put food and toothbrushes in our mouths!!!"

[holothuroidea]

These people KNOW NOTHING about infants and children.

A 7 month old DOES NOT understand the word no, the only thing a 7 month old understands when they are hit or scolded is "mommy = love = pain." The twisted bullshit this sets kids up for as adults is what turns people into monsters who think abuse is a honorable/Godly way of life.

But of course, that was their goal all along.

These children need HELP, they need OUT, and they need LOVE WITHOUT ABUSE.

And read a fucking child development book Michael Pearl, infants do not have the capacity for reason it takes to understand limits. Your job as a parent is to enforce the limits (in other words, hold the baby in the grocery so they can't grab everything, don't expose an overtired toddler to too much stimulation, etc.), not to teach an infant to enforce them himself (which doesn't make any kind of sense at all).

[emmyfair]

FLICKING a NEWBORN!?!!?? :shock:

Those Pearl fuckers deserve the very worst circle of hell for the pain they have unleashed on the most helpless of this world in the name of their "god".

[celestial]

This is so, so sad. I hope all these people get their kids taken away.

[jaynie]

I keep on clicking these threads, mistakenly believing I've become immune to Pearl style Evil, but no. The whole thing is just a wall of awful parenting, but this kind of stood out to me, even though it isn't the most obviously appalling bit:

Mike: [snip] The want develops into a demand, and the demand develops into indulgence; and pretty soon the child is living a life of passion and indulgences and fulfillment. [snip].

Heaven forbid a child lives a life of passion, indulgence, and fulfillment. Can you imagine anything more awful?

[holothuroidea]

I keep on clicking these threads, mistakenly believing I've become immune to Pearl style Evil, but no. The whole thing is just a wall of awful parenting, but this kind of stood out to me, even though it isn't the most obviously appalling bit:

Heaven forbid a child lives a life of passion, indulgence, and fulfillment. Can you imagine anything more awful?

Well it wouldn't be good for making obedient servants, that's for sure.

[Mountain Girl]

As the mom of an almost 6 month old, that is disgusting

Isn't the whole point of babies throwing and dropping things, development and such?

Why would I hit her for throwing things? I'm happy that shes developing and that her brain is working!

And when she throws and drops things, I laugh and it gets her to laugh!!

Im sure that my 6 month old pulls on my hair to piss me off! ya! :roll:

What an Assbutt! :evil:

QFT. I just... gjdlasdgjkslgjskld!!! I have no words.

[Mountain Girl]

Well it wouldn't be good for making obedient servants, that's for sure.

WTF Fulfillment is a bad thing now? Can these people just get eaten by a bear and stop spreading their abusive drivel?

[snarkykitty]

The "mother" asking for the advice says, "I flick her as hard as I can". She's talking about a 7-month old baby who isn't mobile, who is at her mercy for every single need in her life, and she "flicks" her baby as hard as she can?? This makes me nauseated. Really sick to my stomach. I just can't...I just can't comprehend this.

[geniebelle6901]

Now I'm ready to go on that cussing spree. Debi....you mother fucking crazy bitch...your ass (and Mike's) belongs in a mental facility for suggesting "flicking" a newborn! There is a special place in hell for both of you! :angry-cussingblack: :angry-screaming:

[Effie]

I think I'm blocked from commenting there. Could someone try reasoning with Melissa? You are probably not allowed to do so over there though... I think you would have to ask her to talk with you somewhere else or ask for her e-mail address.

[AllisonWndrland]

Abuse. Just absolute abuse. Got to be among the top ten most ignorant blog posts I have seen this week and probably is at the top of the list. If someone hit me on the hand with a spatula 20-30 times a day, I would do whatever it took to irritate the shit out of them.

[Trynn]

And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea. Mark 9:42

But whoever shall offend one of these little ones who believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. Matthew 18:6.

These people do not read their bible.

Also, I'm not sure that children that young have any idea of cause and effect. My cousin's friend said her daughter was on the floor, and the grandfather got down on the floor to play with her. The kid grabbed his tie, which choked him. now, said kid is about a year old, plus a few months. The grandpa hit her for grabbing his tie because "she's got to learn."

Um... what did she learn, exactly? I don't think she understood that grabbing grandpa's tie causes him to stop breathing, all she understood was "I wanted to play, and grandpa hit me." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that someone that young just doesn't understand why grabbing grandpa's tie led to getting smacked? That made me so angry. It's never ok to hit a child.

Yes, the grandpa is what we would consider hard core fundy. When the child in the above example was dying in the hospital (oxygen levels in the 40s) the mom was in the hospital watching disney movies, I think in the waiting room or something? The grandfather of the child (father of the mother) came to yell at his daughter about how she was sinning by watching disney movies. Nevermind the fact that his grandchild was dying. No, what's more important is to yell at his daughter that disney movies are evil and sinful and wrong and of the devil. Whatever one does think of disney movies, that was not the time nor the place.

[Tator Tot Tubby]

Has anyone ever brought this sort of stuff to child services? I feel like it wouldn't be hard to have this book banned.

[FlorenceHamilton]

Ummm....I totally raised my children to live a life of passions, indulgence and fulfillment!

I was really inspired by a guy named Tom who said that we are entitled by our creator (which is not the same thing as the Christian god) with the inalienable right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. My heathen daughter was inspired by him as well because she followed in his footsteps on Mother's Day when her Law degree was conferred by the same institution.

[Effie]

Has anyone ever brought this sort of stuff to child services? I feel like it wouldn't be hard to have this book banned.

I don't think anyone can do anything about that book in U.S., as long as spanking is legal over there...

You can sign here though, and help to ban the book on Amazon: http://www.change.org/petitions/jeff-be ... f-children

[Austin]

The Pearls should really write a book called How to Raise a Sociopath Without Even Trying.

Oh, that's right, they have - they just titled it something else.

[EmmieJ]

What i seriously don't get is that they advocate beating children for stuff thats #1 developmentally appropriate and #2, if your house is full of dirt to that point that you're constantly telling your child to stop eating dirt all over the house, then MAYBE YOU SHOULD TAKE A BREAK FROM BEATING YOUR CHILD AND CLEAN YOUR HOUSE.

Truth.

It's disturbing how many people have children yet have no idea of the normal development behavior of infants, toddlers and children. Why don't they pick up one or two child development books while pregnant and read up on what is normal expected behavior? I'm almost in despair over the level of ignorance.

I'm also concerned about a mother who repeatedly flicks her baby "as hard as possible." Where is this woman's maternal love?

[holothuroidea]

Truth.

It's disturbing how many people have children yet have no idea of the normal development behavior of infants, toddlers and children. Why don't they pick up one or two child development books while pregnant and read up on what is normal expected behavior? I'm almost in despair over the level of ignorance.

I'm also concerned about a mother who repeatedly flicks her baby "as hard as possible." Where is this woman's maternal love?

Forget maternal love, where is her common decency? Humanity? Empathy?

Since when is it okay to flick any person repeatedly as hard as you can?

Oh, wait, I forgot children aren't people.

THE RAGE, IT BURNS