Rationalizing selfishness, the fundy mommy way

[meda]

Bambi over at InthenurseryofthenationDOTcom really is a blessing. Here I always thought that having your teenage daughters act as sister mommies to the children you can't be bothered to raise yourself was simply a way to avoid responsibilities, but apparently it has the added bonus of being a biblical mandate.

"The baby drops his soup in the floor. The three year old won't eat, but insists he'd rather have something else. The five and seven year old are squabbling. She settles disputes, gets them all fed, helps someone in the restroom, and then the toddler has a dirty diaper.

Once she gets everyone cleaned up and cared for, she sends them outside to play, keeping a watchful eye out the kitchen window as she does the dishes. She patiently instructs the seven year old to pay attention to detail as she sweeps the floor.

She puts the leftovers away and wipes down the counters quickly and efficiently because she's done it so many times that it's second nature. She doesn't stop to rest but heads outside to keep the little ones out of the mud puddles and admire the bicycle tricks.

Is this a 30 year old woman?

No. This is a 15 year old daughter, left in charge for a few hours.

Is a large family a burden on the oldest children of the family? Some might say, "It's too much, it's too hard, it's not fair."

What does the Bible say about teenagers?

It says nothing.

There is no distinction made for "teens." There are children and there are adults.

We do our daughters a disservice when we make life easy for them. We are equipping them for life by giving them opportunity to lay down their lives for younger siblings and family.

Some day, if the Lord blesses her, my daughter may have her own little ones. Someday she may do something else that requires her to fall like a seed to the ground, dying. Will she do it willingly?

By the grace of God, she will be prepared to."

[Conuly]

As funny today as when it was first written, but it's always good to acknowledge when you're quoting another person's writing.

How about strapping youths? There must be some of THOSE wandering around the Bible.

[browngrl]

I think I am going to start keeping a list of all the reasons why I will never believe in the god these fundies worship and the reasons why I am so grateful for my non fundie family.

Lets start with this: In the Nursery of the nation blog: "We are equipping them for life by giving them opportunity to lay down their lives for younger siblings and family." and "Someday she may do something else that requires her to fall like a seed to the ground, dying. Will she do it willingly?By the grace of God, she will be prepared to."

[Peas n carrots]

There is no distinction made for "teens." There are children and there are adults.

We do our daughters a disservice when we make life easy for them. We are equipping them for life by giving them opportunity to lay down their lives for younger siblings and family.

Ummm, how about equipping daughters for life by giving her the opportunity to have a good education, and not a few hours at the SOTDRT? Just a thought, but what about any daughters who are young and not going to have younger siblings to take care of...will they be screwed because they did not have the opportunity to lay down their lives for younger kids? I don't get it.

[Tanaqui]

Just a thought, but what about any daughters who are young and not going to have younger siblings to take care of...will they be screwed because they did not have the opportunity to lay down their lives for younger kids? I don't get it.

That one is easy. Just keep having more kids until the last few are boys.

[Biscuit]

There is no distinction made for "teens." There are children and there are adults.

Yes, and teenagers are not adults. They should not be expected to shoulder adult responsibilities.

[holothuroidea]

Does anyone else see this as one step away from marrying off daughters as soon as they menstruate a la FLDS??

[Avalondaughter]

When one becomes a mother, isn't it generally understood that you are accepting ultimate responsibility for your children? The only thing this woman seems to be doing is "teaching" her oldest daughter to do her job.

What exactly is this woman doing while her daughter takes care of her younger siblings? She's on the computer blogging all day?

[tankgirl]

This is so sad, basically this teenager doesn't get a break until her oldest can run an entire house. And if she has a bunch of boys first, or has hard pregnancies, it means a long time before she gets to catch a break. What a sad life, and a sad expectation for your children.

[deelaem]

"We are equipping them for life by giving them opportunity to lay down their lives for younger siblings and family." and "Someday she may do something else that requires her to fall like a seed to the ground, dying. Will she do it willingly?By the grace of God, she will be prepared to."

That is possibly the most fucked-up thing I've seen a fundie say. If there was ever proof that they consider women to be merely chattel, this is it. When will this madness end? :evil:

[Kaylee]

Does anyone else see this as one step away from marrying off daughters as soon as they menstruate a la FLDS??

Judging by the ages of a lot of SAHDs and blogs like this one, the main reason that's not happening is because the "mothers" in these families would rather keep them home to raise their siblings so the mom can write blogs, ponder Vision Forum catalogs and run home businesses, rather than doing the job she chose at a SAHM.

[Moya]

She probably takes her cues from great mothers like Michelle Duggar!

[Moya]

Free slave labor. This mom justifies it by throwing Christianity/God/Bible into it. Makes her feel better about herself. This mom is plain lazy!

[Austin]

That is possibly the most fucked-up thing I've seen a fundie say. If there was ever proof that they consider women to be merely chattel, this is it. When will this madness end? :evil:

And that's really saying something :shock:

[BoomerLynn]

Free slave labor. This mom justifies it by throwing Christianity/God/Bible into it. Makes her feel better about herself. This mom is plain lazy!

+1

[holothuroidea]

Judging by the ages of a lot of SAHDs and blogs like this one, the main reason that's not happening is because the "mothers" in these families would rather keep them home to raise their siblings so the mom can write blogs, ponder Vision Forum catalogs and run home businesses, rather than doing the job she chose at a SAHM.

Well I guess this is the reason books like "To Train Up a Child" exist. Break their spirits when they're infants to turn them into docile slaves as teenagers. Why don't they give that book a proper title like "To Train Up your Slaves."

But the "there are no teenagers, only children and adults" attitude scares the ever loving shit out of me. It gives young adults absolutely no chance to develop any kind of individuality, and shows absolutely no respect for the inner life of these young people. I mean I could go on and on but I'm sure it's all been said before here. It's just a continuation of the fundie's complete disrespect for humanity.

Children are not property.

[slickcat79]

Is a large family a burden on the oldest children of the family? Some might say, "It's too much, it's too hard, it's not fair."

Yes, it is a burden on the oldest children. It's not fair to them. Yes, everyone does what they have to do in an unexpected situation, but QFers go into their adult lives knowing what they're going to put their kids through, and they deliberately do it anyway.

The bible makes no distinction for "teens", but that was a long time ago. You could forget about what your daughter was going to do for her future family, because you would not be alive to see your grandchildren anyway. And it probably wouldn't matter to her either, since childbirth would probably kill her. And since there were no modern conveniences (or birth control!), you actually needed your older children to contribute to your family life or you would never get anything done. This is not a time to aspire to.

[dairyfreelife]

Bambi over at InthenurseryofthenationDOTcom really is a blessing. Here I always thought that having your teenage daughters act as sister mommies to the children you can't be bothered to raise yourself was simply a way to avoid responsibilities, but apparently it has the added bonus of being a biblical mandate.

"The baby drops his soup in the floor. The three year old won't eat, but insists he'd rather have something else. The five and seven year old are squabbling. She settles disputes, gets them all fed, helps someone in the restroom, and then the toddler has a dirty diaper.

Once she gets everyone cleaned up and cared for, she sends them outside to play, keeping a watchful eye out the kitchen window as she does the dishes. She patiently instructs the seven year old to pay attention to detail as she sweeps the floor.

She puts the leftovers away and wipes down the counters quickly and efficiently because she's done it so many times that it's second nature. She doesn't stop to rest but heads outside to keep the little ones out of the mud puddles and admire the bicycle tricks.

Is this a 30 year old woman?

No. This is a 15 year old daughter, left in charge for a few hours.

Is a large family a burden on the oldest children of the family? Some might say, "It's too much, it's too hard, it's not fair."

What does the Bible say about teenagers?

It says nothing.

There is no distinction made for "teens." There are children and there are adults.

We do our daughters a disservice when we make life easy for them. We are equipping them for life by giving them opportunity to lay down their lives for younger siblings and family.

Some day, if the Lord blesses her, my daughter may have her own little ones. Someday she may do something else that requires her to fall like a seed to the ground, dying. Will she do it willingly?

By the grace of God, she will be prepared to."

Wow. The bolded is so messed up. I am the eldest child and while I would do whatever necessary to help my younger siblings, maybe even lay down my life for them, I would do it because I want to. If my parents told me or forced me to do so, I would not do so willingly. If her 15yo chooses to die over her siblings, that's not her mother's decision.

Force isn't willing. Willing has to come without force. No one told me I have to do anything for my siblings, but I would because they're my family and I love and care about them and their well-being. Her 15yo would probably be the same, but because of the force there, she may not develop the same attitude. I think if I had been forced to do several chores and be a nanny while my mother blogged on the computer and tried to tell me that I have to do this prepare for motherhood one day and need to lay down my life and priorities for my siblings, I'd be rather resentful and probably would not be as willing to do what my mother said about laying down my life and all that.

Children aren't as stupid as this woman thinks they are. They know a hypocrite when they see one. Just because someone seems outwardly happy doesn't mean they are inwardly content at all. So, Bambi may claim "My daughter loves to help" just because her daughter helps without being asked or does not show any discontent. I doubt she's allowed to show discontent or to be unhappy. Children overall don't want to disappoint their parents. Children and teenagers may hate their life, but they often don't have anywhere to go or anyone to turn to to help, especially in this lifestyle. They don't have friends or family who can help them and sometimes live in the middle of nowhere and are stuck.

I feel for Bambi's 15yo daughter and hope she can get out and live her life the way she wants and needs and does it all "willingly".

[debrand]

That is possibly the most fucked-up thing I've seen a fundie say. If there was ever proof that they consider women to be merely chattel, this is it. When will this madness end? :evil:

Her daughter has two choices: be a mom or die for Christ.

This is one of the comments left on her site

I appriciate this shared thought and hope that our children are both able and willing to lay down their lives to the will of Father. Hopes of them willingly fallowing His path no matter how hard it may be at times. This is an interesting thing to teach to a five and seven year old, yet we try

Seven and five year olds should not worry about being martyrs.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Ummm, how about equipping daughters for life by giving her the opportunity to have a good education, and not a few hours at the SOTDRT? Just a thought, but what about any daughters who are young and not going to have younger siblings to take care of...will they be screwed because they did not have the opportunity to lay down their lives for younger kids? I don't get it.

Indeed.

My parents also thought that "we do our daughters a disservice when we make life easy for them." That's why they insisted that I study, study, study, and practice, practice, practice, so that I could get into a good school, and did not let me say "but when am I ever going to need to use math???" and stop my schooling around age 15!

Meanwhile I do manage to put up the leftovers and wipe my kitchen counters.

[mirele]

I know a woman who is the oldest of 13 kids. They were NOT quiverfull--in fact, her father was an MD and her mother a psychologist with a Ph.D and my friend has an MBA and a JD**. My friend ended up raising most of her siblings and, as a consequence, she has absolutely NO interest in children of her own. She also moved 1000 miles from her family's home to get away from the crazy that is her family, but that's another story entirely. So even well-educated parents with well-educated kids can use their kids as free labor.

**When my friend got accepted to law school, her mother called up the law school dean and asked if she could join her daughter there. My friend did do a slow burn, but there was nothing she could do about it except ask to be put in a different class than her mom, which the school did.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

But the "there are no teenagers, only children and adults" attitude scares the ever loving shit out of me. It gives young adults absolutely no chance to develop any kind of individuality, and shows absolutely no respect for the inner life of these young people.

It also shows no understanding of how society has changed in modern times.

Fundies love to sit around idealizing an earlier age, and part of that gauzy rose-colored image has kids (well, mainly boys) able to graduate from the SOTDRT at the age of 15, having studied perhaps half a day at best for most of that schooling, and just walk into a decently-paid long term employment situation in some "salt of the earth" gig, usually "using their hands" or similar. So sure, they're a kid, then next day they walk into a job as an adult.

Unfortunately, we have the various "extended adolescence" things going on because the modern economy and state of human knowledge in general actually requires more training (be it at college, specialty school, official union apprenticeship, or what have you) than the SOTDRT can provide. We know things now, there's a bigger body of knowledge to learn before you reach the front lines, no one is a master of physics at 18 like back in Newton's day, because we learn his discoveries already beginning in junior high school!

On top of the soft-focus anachronism there's the idealized view of family, so the girl who takes the BIG risk (and it's always a risk! it's a big trust move!) of stepping outside the wage economy to stay at home and rely on someone else's income is somehow magically assured that her risk will never go wrong, the man she chooses won't end up being an abuser, won't end up leaving her for someone else, and also won't have the bad luck to die young or become too disabled to work.

Gah. It's probably obvious from my posts but this denying kids education thing is probably my MAIN rage factor with this neo-"traditional" lifestyle BS. It's not 1850, it's not 1920, it's farking 2012. The buggy whip factories CLOSED long ago.

[keen23]

The Bible doesn't make any mention of the teen years, because it's a relatively new phenomenon. You were a child until you were married off, at a young age, and then you were an adult. In the times of the Roman Republic, the age of consent for girls was 12, for boys it was 14.

[Koala]

Gotta love the quiverfull moms. They expect their teenagers to be mature enough to do what they aren't willing to do themselves.

It's really a mind fuck though...on one hand they're supposed to be mini moms, and on the other hand they're supposed to be like small children.

[holothuroidea]

It also shows no understanding of how society has changed in modern times.

Fundies love to sit around idealizing an earlier age, and part of that gauzy rose-colored image has kids (well, mainly boys) able to graduate from the SOTDRT at the age of 15, having studied perhaps half a day at best for most of that schooling, and just walk into a decently-paid long term employment situation in some "salt of the earth" gig, usually "using their hands" or similar. So sure, they're a kid, then next day they walk into a job as an adult.

Unfortunately, we have the various "extended adolescence" things going on because the modern economy and state of human knowledge in general actually requires more training (be it at college, specialty school, official union apprenticeship, or what have you) than the SOTDRT can provide. We know things now, there's a bigger body of knowledge to learn before you reach the front lines, no one is a master of physics at 18 like back in Newton's day, because we learn his discoveries already beginning in junior high school!

On top of the soft-focus anachronism there's the idealized view of family, so the girl who takes the BIG risk (and it's always a risk! it's a big trust move!) of stepping outside the wage economy to stay at home and rely on someone else's income is somehow magically assured that her risk will never go wrong, the man she chooses won't end up being an abuser, won't end up leaving her for someone else, and also won't have the bad luck to die young or become too disabled to work.

Gah. It's probably obvious from my posts but this denying kids education thing is probably my MAIN rage factor with this neo-"traditional" lifestyle BS. It's not 1850, it's not 1920, it's farking 2012. The buggy whip factories CLOSED long ago.

This is all very true!

I also think of the social implications of not having those years to freely develop both individuality and social skills. Trying to think of the kind of adult I would have turned into without ages 13-21 free to develop... eeek...

Talk about extended adolescence, where do you think all of these Man-Children like Smuggar come from? They never even had a chance to grow up properly.

I'm so glad that we've come so far that we have the luxury to develop really advanced social skills. I can't imagine letting that go over some idealized pastoral romanticism of days-gone-by.