I honestly cannot understand this about fundies

[EmmieJ]

So because this church does some nice things, people shouldn't be angry when they do terrible things? If this church is working to ban same-sex marriage, then they are working to hurt people I love and care about. They are working to stigmatize and de-legitimize my family. And that's not okay with me, no matter how many charity drives they do.

I'm sure lots of segregated churches in the South held charity drives, too. That didn't make their racism any less horrible. It didn't excuse their support for laws that didn't let people of different races attend the same schools, use the same drinking fountains, or marry one another. Just because those churches occasionally did good deeds, that didn't erase their negative actions.

Exactly. Doing one good deed does not absolve those so-called Christians who are spending money and fighting tooth and nail to deny other humans the same rights and dignities as heterosexuals. It is discrimination, and it's done with hatred in the heart. Feeding some hungry people doesn't cancel out that much greater evil. Further, banning abortion is at heart, about controlling women's right to control their own bodies. If it were really about saving human lives,then we'd see exactly the same people, with exactly the same fervor, every time a death row inmate was up for execution. We'd see these same people fighting for programs that helped disadvantaged children get easy access to health care, good quality child care, early childhood intervention, and so forth. But we don't -- they spend their time yelling at teenage girls trying to get into Planned Parenthood, then go home feeling all holy and purified.

I do not believe Christ would behave in any such fashion, nor that Christ (if he is a diety and does exist) looks with favor on these people who claim they are doing so much ugliness in his name. Hatefulness is hatefulness - no matter what kind of phony christian shine one tries to put on it. It's basically polishing a turd. Sure, it can look shiny but it still stinks and it's still crap.

[EmmieJ]

It's interesting to read the various fundie pages that make the argument that without banning and persecuting everything to do with homosexuality, it will break down the sexual tradeoff (I can't recall the proper term). Patriarchy relies on the bargain where men (who by nature want to roam around and hump anything that moves) will only consent to being "civilized" by women, who will create a home for them, raise their (their!) heirs and provide them with sexual favors (reluctantly!) in return for their staying around, providing protection, and bringing in income.

Supposedly if boys realize that homosexuality is a valid option, they will all run off to live promiscuous gay lifestyles (because it's "easier") without settling down and society will fall in flames.

Yes, I find it very odd that fundies are so insecure in their heterosexual marriages that apparently anytime two gay people get married, a fundie marriage collapses into nothingness. It "threatens the very foundations" of society?? No, it threatens their limited perception of what roles males and females should have in a society. Men get the be in charge; women get to submit and bear and raise the children; children are the property of the father and to a lesser degree, the mother and can be beaten into submission (or even death) if that's what their parents think is right.

And of course they have to adamantly insist that being gay or lesbian is a "lifestyle choice" because otherwise they'd have to accept that sometimes, God makes people gay. They'd have to accept that all along, they've been finding fault with God for creating both straight and gay people, and then persecuting some of God's children. Many "Christians" claim they are persecuted, yet apparently fail to see the irony of their own persecution of others who do not share their same belief system.

[ems]

Why are fundies/the religious right so damn focused on gay marriage and abortion? Those aren't even the 2 most important laws in the Bible. Why aren't they focused on legalizing the 10 commandments (making lying illegal, banning coveting, requiring people to keep the Sabbath day holy)? Why not focus on divorce laws, since the Bible also disapproves of divorce? I honestly cannot comprehend why they focus so heavily on 2 issues.

Politics.

[Seven Severn]

I must say this pov has been eye opening to me. Thanks!!

So Many Lies, there was a good thread on here a couple of months ago about this very thing: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=8459 Hope you enjoy. :)

[Peas n carrots]

Abortion and gay marriage are threats to Patriarchy, and that is all they care about. Abortion gives women some control over their fertility, so they have a choice in how dependent they are on a man. Marriage equality threatens the Patriarchy because at least on of the partners in a same-sex couple has to be following the non-traditional gender role, and yet many of these partnerships last long-term, even longer than plenty of hetero marriages. It makes it that much harder to convince women that strict gender roles are necessary for a "successful" marriage and well-adjusted kids.

Well put. I never thought of the issue with gay marriage in that way. It makes sense since so many seem to be scared of effeminate men, whether or not they are actually gay.

[Austin]

Abortion and gay marriage are threats to Patriarchy, and that is all they care about. Abortion gives women some control over their fertility, so they have a choice in how dependent they are on a man. Marriage equality threatens the Patriarchy because at least on of the partners in a same-sex couple has to be following the non-traditional gender role, and yet many of these partnerships last long-term, even longer than plenty of hetero marriages. It makes it that much harder to convince women that strict gender roles are necessary for a "successful" marriage and well-adjusted kids.

Bingo!

[bananacat]

Agreed.

It's interesting to read the various fundie pages that make the argument that without banning and persecuting everything to do with homosexuality, it will break down the sexual tradeoff (I can't recall the proper term). Patriarchy relies on the bargain where men (who by nature want to roam around and hump anything that moves) will only consent to being "civilized" by women, who will create a home for them, raise their (their!) heirs and provide them with sexual favors (reluctantly!) in return for their staying around, providing protection, and bringing in income.

Supposedly if boys realize that homosexuality is a valid option, they will all run off to live promiscuous gay lifestyles (because it's "easier") without settling down and society will fall in flames.

On top of that of course is the easy "God doesn't like it, and will withdraw his special blessing on the U.S." (but my own interpretation of that is, well yeah of course, because it's men who subscribe to the whole "sexual tradeoff" patriarchy nonsense who made that up, but... hey)

I actually don't think it's very common that they are afraid of everyone "going gay" if it is seen as a valid option. I think what they fear more is that women will demand equality or at least to be in less-stifling roles. They can say now that women can't have paying jobs and men can't change diapers and women can't make the decisions and men can't care for their own children, because they justify it by saying it's the best way. But if a fundie woman sees two men raising a baby and the world doesn't explode and the kid actually seems to be pretty typical, then she'll realize that at least one of those men did a lot of childcare work and maybe her husband should step up and do the same. When they say they want to preserve "traditional marriage", we should take them at their word. They absolutely do not want to preserve the definition of marriage as one man and one woman in an equal partnership. They want to preserve a marriage where wives are subordinate to their husbands and men and women are forced into strict roles.

[Swamptribe]

I read an interesting sign the other day. I'll paraphrase.

Homophobics are afraid that gay men will treat them as the homophobes treat women. And that women will like the better treatment they get from the lesbians.

[luckystone]

That's a really good question! I actually have no idea. You're right, they put a disproportionate emphasis on that.

[Nesomja]

If you look at it that way, a pedophile would be less offensive....

Basically it will always be less offensive to be male then? since their sin will inevitably be less obvious seeing as how they can't get pregnant...

[Letgo]

When I was attending a baptist church I questioned why only unmarried pregnant girls were excommunicated. The answer was "because the sin is too obvious in this case".

So as long as one's sin is not obvious, go for it! What kind of nonsense is that? Isn't that encouraging people to hide their sins and lie about them? WHERE do grace, love, and forgiveness come in with sinful acts? You know, things that Jesus taught. I don't understand why some things are so bad, but others are not. An unmarried pregnant girl is excommunicated, but if a church leader is the one who made her pregnant, he is let off without the same type of punishment.

[jesssnerch]

Reading some of the comments in this thread made me have to make this...

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[SpeakNow]

Reading some of the comments in this thread made me have to make this...

[attachment=0]20456334.jpg[/attachment]

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