Jesse Maxwell's graduation photos are up!!

[lilwriter85]

The weird thing is that in the "Hearts" book Steve (and Teri, presumably) remark about how their isolationist education has provided the real skills the kids need, and lists among them the ability to confidently speak the word, etc. Just reading it you'd think that "pastor" would be one possible occupation the kids could do.

Surely if they headed their OWN churches, alone, with only followers other than them, it might be okay? Goodness knows they shouldn't follow another pastor...

As for Sarah - in that same book she mentions that she went to a sleepover as a young child (before the family went full isolationist) and had some experience that she very much regretted (though she assures the reader that it was nothing really untoward or anything secular people would find a problem) and she's thankful that the reversal kids never had to have such experiences and have their precious spirits harmed or whatever.

It seems they're quite proud of their "innocence" and terrified of losing it. You can read similar paranoia on imamother frequently, moms terrified that some classmate of their kids will mention Barney or whatever it is and all the careful isolation from the secular world will ruined, and their kid will always have this one non-religious memory...

I haven't read any of the Maxwell books. I've read some excerpts. That is weird that Steve believes that their education and lifestyle has provide the kids with skills. The reversal gang probably have poor socialization skills and probably wouldn't be able to cope in a lot of workplace situations. They probably do ok at speaking events that the Maxwells do, but in the secular world, they would struggle.

[Justme]

I hope he does become a missionary, anything has to be better than staying at home with Steve...

I'm sure Jesse's difinition of "missionary" is to take over Steve's horse & pony show when Steve & Teri retire. Those "kids" have been so isolated their entire lives, they probably don't even know about the missionaries that serve in other countries....

[lilwriter85]

I'm sure Jesse's difinition of "missionary" is to take over Steve's horse & pony show when Steve & Teri retire. Those "kids" have been so isolated their entire lives, they probably don't even know about the missionaries that serve in other countries....

I'm thinking the same thing too.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

As I look back over my childhood years, I have several regrets. The first vivid one was a bad experience at a sleepover. This was before my parents began to shelter us from sleepovers. My parents were very careful as to whom I was allowed to spend the night with, but unfortunately, even at this friend's house, things happened that I regret. While it was nothing immoral or really awful, I knew it wasn't what my parents would have allowed, and I still have the negative memories.

So yeah, it's unclear. She doesn't say her age at the time either, but I'm thinking young elementary age, and suspect either some form of boy talk (among girls) or possibly something to do with TV.

But that's not all! She goes on...

My second regret would be the majority of my neighborhood friends. Many of my memories of play with neighborhood children are ones I wish I could forget. My parents were in the early stages of realizing they needed to shelter their children. While they screened our playmates to some extent and wouldn't allow us to play in some families' homes, that was as far as the sheltering went in this area. I'm thrilled Dad and Mom have learned the importance of sheltering the children and that my younger brothers and sisters will not have those same kinds of regrets that I have. My younger siblings have never done sleepovers or played alone with neighborhood friends.

She has a driver's license, got it at 19. She has to always take someone with her when she goes out, "for my protection as a young, single woman" and she's grateful for it. At this point she doesn't have to ask permission about where to go since her parents trust that she won't go anywhere she shouldn't (though I suppose the "take a sibling" thing is still in effect).

She says that sheltering hasn't made her shy, she enjoys interacting with others now, as an adult. She loves to share the joy of the Lord. I can't help but wonder about WHO she does all this interacting with. As a reader of their blog, I think it would make their blog a whole lot more interesting if they posted about it! :)

At least at 22, she was hoping the Lord would give her a large family. She needs to mix it up, if she wants that to ever happen...!

One last thing - the family made the switch to frumpers when Sarah was 10. That makes it 20 years ago (I know there is at least one picture of Sarah wearing pants on the internet, though I can't recall where it is at the moment). TV went out when Christopher was 7 or 8 (by his memory). He's two years older than Sarah, so she would have been 5 or 6 (ish, not knowing their birthdays, I dunno).

Nathan thinks there's nothing odd about their family rules, because hey, kids in the third world don't have TV, team sports, and youth group. I kinda have to laugh - he seriously thinks that? He should travel more! (Hint: You don't have to OWN a TV to SEE plenty of TV.)

[lilwriter85]

I think whatever happend at the sleepover when Sarah was a child probably wasn't anything extremely bad. I agree with others, it could have been a game, maybe the Ouija board was brought out. It could have been boy gossip or maybe they watched a horror movie or something that Sarah wouldn't been allowed to see at home.

[Markie]

I imagine Sarah was grilled about what they did at the sleepover when she came home and made to repent and feel guilty about having done something her parents wouldn't allow. What a sad, sad little girl who has grown up to be a sad, sad, smug adult.

[luckystone]

He picked the same dessert as the other boy's birthday! Is that their only dessert choice?

The whole thing bothers me so much. I wonder abour their standard of education.

[fundiefan]

Today I received an invitation to my cousin's son's graduation party.

I swear, my sigh was audible. I can't ever express how happy it makes me that the kids in my family (and us adults before them) get to celebrate such an awesome event surrounded by family and friends. The party is to be held at his aunt's house because they live on a farm and have acres and acres of land. The family is coming earlier in the day and at night, it's all about him and his friends and four wheeling on the property and a bon fire and just plain celebrating.

I am so happy he will have that and that he and his friends will share that night. And if there is a god, I can't believe for a minute that he would look down on my cousin's son, or anyone else, for celebrating and acknowledging his accomplishment and his crossing the threshold on his way to independent adulthood.

The Maxwells have a very sad, lonely, pathetic existence.

[HoneyBunny]

I think that the sin in the sleepover camp was that the BEAST was turned on.

Sarah regrets playing with her neighborhood friends as a child? She regrets it??? I never thought I'd say it, but if that is the way she plans to raise her kids if she ever has any, I truly hope she stays home writing Moody books in Uriah for the rest of her life.

[Peas n carrots]

So yeah, it's unclear. She doesn't say her age at the time either, but I'm thinking young elementary age, and suspect either some form of boy talk (among girls) or possibly something to do with TV.

But that's not all! She goes on...

She has a driver's license, got it at 19. She has to always take someone with her when she goes out, "for my protection as a young, single woman" and she's grateful for it. At this point she doesn't have to ask permission about where to go since her parents trust that she won't go anywhere she shouldn't (though I suppose the "take a sibling" thing is still in effect).

She says that sheltering hasn't made her shy, she enjoys interacting with others now, as an adult. She loves to share the joy of the Lord. I can't help but wonder about WHO she does all this interacting with. As a reader of their blog, I think it would make their blog a whole lot more interesting if they posted about it! :)

At least at 22, she was hoping the Lord would give her a large family. She needs to mix it up, if she wants that to ever happen...!

One last thing - the family made the switch to frumpers when Sarah was 10. That makes it 20 years ago (I know there is at least one picture of Sarah wearing pants on the internet, though I can't recall where it is at the moment). TV went out when Christopher was 7 or 8 (by his memory). He's two years older than Sarah, so she would have been 5 or 6 (ish, not knowing their birthdays, I dunno).

Nathan thinks there's nothing odd about their family rules, because hey, kids in the third world don't have TV, team sports, and youth group. I kinda have to laugh - he seriously thinks that? He should travel more! (Hint: You don't have to OWN a TV to SEE plenty of TV.)

Wow, so much sad here. It sounds like she is trying to talk herself into believing the extreme isolation she has lived is a good thing. I can't help but wonder what.will happen when Steve and Teri kick the bucket...will she have this terrifying moment of clarity that she has seen her life slip away...that she has never truly lived?

[fundiefan]

Kids in third world countries don't have medical care, clean water, enough food, proper shelter, the Internet, education. What else? If his gauge for what is ok is based on third world countries, he better give up the docs who are helping his wife carry his offspring to term, turn off the Internet and stop making money off it, stop driving around with daddy in the house on wheels that eats resources -what third wold kid travels in a bus with the family to sell their wares?

As is pretty constant and normal in Maxwell land, it's a total and complete logic fail.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Kids in third world countries don't have medical care, clean water, enough food, proper shelter, the Internet, education. What else? If his gauge for what is ok is based on third world countries, he better give up the docs who are helping his wife carry his offspring to term, turn off the Internet and stop making money off it, stop driving around with daddy in the house on wheels that eats resources -what third wold kid travels in a bus with the family to sell their wares?

As is pretty constant and normal in Maxwell land, it's a total and complete logic fail.

Yep. Particularly considering that even people who don't have medical care and clean water often DO manage to see TV in the street (when regular households don't have TV, public gathering places and shops often will have TV) and pretty much all kids the world over play football, even if they're not in leagues. They play with.... ZOMG... friends!

It's like double fail.

[Koala]

They played a game of Truth or Dare. :roll:

I once ended up streaking in a Truth of Dare game :whistle: :lol:

[lilwriter85]

So yeah, it's unclear. She doesn't say her age at the time either, but I'm thinking young elementary age, and suspect either some form of boy talk (among girls) or possibly something to do with TV.

But that's not all! She goes on...

She has a driver's license, got it at 19. She has to always take someone with her when she goes out, "for my protection as a young, single woman" and she's grateful for it. At this point she doesn't have to ask permission about where to go since her parents trust that she won't go anywhere she shouldn't (though I suppose the "take a sibling" thing is still in effect).

She says that sheltering hasn't made her shy, she enjoys interacting with others now, as an adult. She loves to share the joy of the Lord. I can't help but wonder about WHO she does all this interacting with. As a reader of their blog, I think it would make their blog a whole lot more interesting if they posted about it! :)

At least at 22, she was hoping the Lord would give her a large family. She needs to mix it up, if she wants that to ever happen...!

One last thing - the family made the switch to frumpers when Sarah was 10. That makes it 20 years ago (I know there is at least one picture of Sarah wearing pants on the internet, though I can't recall where it is at the moment). TV went out when Christopher was 7 or 8 (by his memory). He's two years older than Sarah, so she would have been 5 or 6 (ish, not knowing their birthdays, I dunno).

Nathan thinks there's nothing odd about their family rules, because hey, kids in the third world don't have TV, team sports, and youth group. I kinda have to laugh - he seriously thinks that? He should travel more! (Hint: You don't have to OWN a TV to SEE plenty of TV.)

I think Sarah at this mostly interacts with her family, the nursing home people, and people the Maxwells meet with at conference/engagements. But she seems to have occasional problems in those situations. I remember she had a smug posting about dealing with a Catholic woman at the nursing home. Likely at some of the conferences, she is interacting with people that aren't as extreme as her family and she probably stumbles in those situations once in awhile.

[DowagerDuchess]

The weird thing is that in the "Hearts" book Steve (and Teri, presumably) remark about how their isolationist education has provided the real skills the kids need, and lists among them the ability to confidently speak the word, etc. Just reading it you'd think that "pastor" would be one possible occupation the kids could do.

Surely if they headed their OWN churches, alone, with only followers other than them, it might be okay? Goodness knows they shouldn't follow another pastor...

As for Sarah - in that same book she mentions that she went to a sleepover as a young child (before the family went full isolationist) and had some experience that she very much regretted (though she assures the reader that it was nothing really untoward or anything secular people would find a problem) and she's thankful that the reversal kids never had to have such experiences and have their precious spirits harmed or whatever.

It seems they're quite proud of their "innocence" and terrified of losing it. You can read similar paranoia on imamother frequently, moms terrified that some classmate of their kids will mention Barney or whatever it is and all the careful isolation from the secular world will ruined, and their kid will always have this one non-religious memory...

Reading Sarah's regret over experiencing something regretable at a sleepover reminds me of Christopher's post about their experience at the Creationist museum, and the family going into a room together to watch a short movie, and Steve intructed them all to cover their eyes during parts of it as he deemed it to violent for them to experience. I have never been to the creationist museum, but I shudder to think they have anything their a child shouls not observe. Christopher was probably 29 aat the time, and his father is instructing him to cover his eyes, and he does. This is simply power and control on Steve's part.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I think Sarah at this mostly interacts with her family, the nursing home people, and people the Maxwells meet with at conference/engagements. But she seems to have occasional problems in those situations. I remember she had a smug posting about dealing with a Catholic woman at the nursing home. Likely at some of the conferences, she is interacting with people that aren't as extreme as her family and she probably stumbles in those situations once in awhile.

There's an odd anecdote in the book about her visiting the orthodontist when her siblings had an appointment. Two of the dental assistants start talking to her (remember, she's 22) and she shares with them that she works at home and didn't go to college. Sarah recalls:

Among other things, I shared with them that I worked at home and had chosen not to go to college. Then one of the girls shook her head and made a comment to the effect that she would love my life! I felt so humbled and awed. Truly it's only the Lord and all He has done!

That's it, no more detail, but... I can easily imagine a situation in a busy office, Sarah is there as the chaperone (or at least, not being worked on so she's just kinda there) and so the office people would make small talk, particularly if they're fairly young themselves. Imagine they're crazy busy, then Sarah says "well, I don't have to go to any office," basically. One natural response to that (at least in my secular American circles) is to do a small laugh or smile, and say "wow, sure sounds good" or "heh, I wish I could do that" ("because we're crazy busy today - three emergencies in one day, man," etc) and move small talk along. But if you sat them down, normally employed dental assistants, and asked them point blank if they'd trade their life for the Maxwells', I'm not so sure they'd say yes. So it comes off to me as hm, maybe Sarah can't "read the air" so to speak. She wouldn't know how banter in an office happens.

But there's other little things too, in all their various writing where they talk about ministering kinda in terms of just being out and about doing their thing, and maybe handing out a tract or two but mainly just being themselves, out in the world (but not of it! They don't know who Lady Gaga is, oh no) and just by being there, making some huge impression on other people who would maybe want to emulate that.

Think of Steve-O handing the tract to the waitress at Olive Garden that one time, doing the "we'll pray for you" and all that, HE thinks wow she's impressed, I'm sure, but... seriously?

So all the kids, being very isolated, they've not had their faith questioned, and they don't know, maybe, just how much side-eye the "Hey! Jeebus!!!" gets in mainstream circles. So it's portrayed as "they'd be good missionaries because they're not afraid to stand up for Christ" etc, they're not afraid to walk up to people and hand out tracts. They wouldn't know that most people find it annoying, maybe.

Dunno. Just speculation. But I do wonder what would happen if they ran into someone who seriously questioned them back.

[luckystone]

That's it, no more detail, but... I can easily imagine a situation in a busy office, Sarah is there as the chaperone (or at least, not being worked on so she's just kinda there) and so the office people would make small talk, particularly if they're fairly young themselves. Imagine they're crazy busy, then Sarah says "well, I don't have to go to any office," basically. One natural response to that (at least in my secular American circles) is to do a small laugh or smile, and say "wow, sure sounds good" or "heh, I wish I could do that" ("because we're crazy busy today - three emergencies in one day, man," etc) and move small talk along. But if you sat them down, normally employed dental assistants, and asked them point blank if they'd trade their life for the Maxwells', I'm not so sure they'd say yes. So it comes off to me as hm, maybe Sarah can't "read the air" so to speak. She wouldn't know how banter in an office happens.

That's really interesting, sounds like a friendly comment a typical busy working (or working/studying person) would say, but doesn't mean they would actually want it! She doesn't seem clued in enough to realise that and takes it as a "my path is the best and everyone agrees" thing.

[Witsec7]

First off the graduation party was just sad. Sadder too Daddy printing off his diploma at home. Whats gonna happen when its a housefull of unmarried kids and mom and dad are gone?

[darkplumaged]

Reading Sarah's regret over experiencing something regretable at a sleepover reminds me of Christopher's post about their experience at the Creationist museum, and the family going into a room together to watch a short movie, and Steve intructed them all to cover their eyes during parts of it as he deemed it to violent for them to experience. I have never been to the creationist museum, but I shudder to think they have anything their a child shouls not observe. Christopher was probably 29 aat the time, and his father is instructing him to cover his eyes, and he does. This is simply power and control on Steve's part.

I'm imagining them all sitting there, adults and teens, eyes covered because a movie at the Creation Museum is just too much for them. I really have no words.

[Sola]

I'm imagining them all sitting there, adults and teens, eyes covered because a movie at the Creation Museum is just too much for them. I really have no words.

Me neither. There would be no point anyone ever trying to free Sarah, she just wouldn't be able to cope with real life. In some ways she is just the same as an institutionalised child. Neither would cope if dumped in the real world.

[Justme]

Me neither. There would be no point anyone ever trying to free Sarah, she just wouldn't be able to cope with real life. In some ways she is just the same as an institutionalised child. Neither would cope if dumped in the real world.

I agree about Sarah. Regarding the dental assistant's comment, we've all had days where we think "oh, it would be so nice to stay at home all the time". It's more a reflex to a bad/busy day.

I'm suprised they were actually allowed to watch the movie at all. I though their "stance" was no movies or TV period. I wonder how they "handle" the violance in the bible. There are some grafic violent parts. Does Steve "black out" those parts?

[ShesCrafty]

Me neither. There would be no point anyone ever trying to free Sarah, she just wouldn't be able to cope with real life. In some ways she is just the same as an institutionalised child. Neither would cope if dumped in the real world.

I have to agree, none of these kids would be able to survive in the real world as they are without extensive counseling. Other people have escaped cults and gone on to live (relatively) normal lives, so it's possible, but takes a lot of work. The only things I know of the Maxwells is what I read on here, but Steve Maxwell is no better than Jim Jones, only on a much smaller scale, which allows them to fly under the radar. I hope those kids (including the 20 and 30 year olds) somehow manage to escape and get the proper help they need.

[kpmom]

Re. Sarah's regret about her sleep over, and playing with neighborhood kids.

Does anyone remember a Dad's Corner where Steve talked about how he used to make the family avoid restaurants that had bars? And when he made an exception to that rule so the family could eat at a Mexican chain restaurant, John felt so guilty he couldn't even eat?

Can you imagine the guilt and indoctrination Steve heaps on his kids (and Teri too, I'm sure) that Sarah is regretting innocent childhood behavior to this day, and John was so guilty (even after being given permission to eat by Steve) that he couldn't enjoy his food?

Wow Yes, Jim Jones for sure.

[Witsec7]

Re. Sarah's regret about her sleep over, and playing with neighborhood kids.

Does anyone remember a Dad's Corner where Steve talked about how he used to make the family avoid restaurants that had bars? And when he made an exception to that rule so the family could eat at a Mexican chain restaurant, John felt so guilty he couldn't even eat?

Can you imagine the guilt and indoctrination Steve heaps on his kids (and Teri too, I'm sure) that Sarah is regretting innocent childhood behavior to this day, and John was so guilty (even after being given permission to eat by Steve) that he couldn't enjoy his food?

Wow Yes, Jim Jones for sure.

That is just so sick.

[alysee]

That is just so sick.

How can anyone not feel bad for the life they are subjecting on other people? It's sick, and sadistic and what's worse is I feel he knows he's screwed up but since he can't be wrong he can't fix it by letting Sarah get married, and having less control because he feels his "ministry" won't be there, even though it's dying already.