Kansas House Passes Sweeping Abortion Law

[Visionoyahweh]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/07 ... he-nation/

Republicans are poised to make the 69 page bill the most restrictive anti-abortion law in the nation. Among the provisions include:

• A sales tax on all abortions. Even rape victims would have to pay the tax, which could be as high as 6.3%. Despite their objections to millionaires paying more taxes, Republicans feel it’s okay to tax women for making a personal decision about their own bodies. This makes abortion more expensive.

• A personhood measure that would define life as beginning at conception, which would almost certainly make abortion equivalent to murder and outlaw all abortion in the state of Kansas. Many forms of contraception could also be banned.

• A measure that significantly limits abortions in the third trimester.

• A provision that bans women from claiming abortion insurance coverage and services on their taxes.

• Doctors are hereby ordered to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, which is a damned lie.

• Doctors are also shielded from lawsuits if they withhold critical health information from pregnant women that could cause them to decide to have an abortion. In other words, they don’t have to tell women about the health of the fetus they carry and don’t have to tell women about any problems with the pregnancy.

[tabitha2]

The Maxwells certainly going to have what some may call fun tonight.

[1004srs]

Kansas is so backward. We have the whole evolution thing with the KS School Board, WBC, Topeka DA stopped prosecuting Domestic Violence cases for a while, Phill Kline and his craziness, Scott Roeder....I could go on and on.

KU Med School actually came out against this saying something about this possibly effecting their OB/GYN program.

[MonkeyMomma]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/05/07/kansas-house-passes-most-dangerous-sweeping-anti-abortion-law-in-the-nation/

Sooo ... abortion is "murder," but the state may profit off "murder"?

Do these people not see the failure of their own logic?

[Sprocket]

http://www.peopleiwanttopunchinthethroa ... mment-form

(link not broken because I think she would fit in well here, plus I think she likes to see where her clicks are coming from)

She sums up how I feel about these legislators pretty well.

[Dev83]

The whole thing pisses me off, but these are the worst IMO:

Doctors are hereby ordered to tell women that abortion causes breast cancer, which is a damned lie.

• Doctors are also shielded from lawsuits if they withhold critical health information from pregnant women that could cause them to decide to have an abortion. In other words, they don’t have to tell women about the health of the fetus they carry and don’t have to tell women about any problems with the pregnancy.

Abortion does NOT cause breast cancer, so they are forcing doctors to provide their patients with false information.

And doctors can withold information from the mother/parents just to prevent them from getting an abortion? f*ck that sh*t.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Sooo ... abortion is "murder," but the state may profit off "murder"?

Do these people not see the failure of their own logic?

I seriously doubt they do... add to your own skepticism, it should be interesting when the first murder investigations are brought for miscarriages, or the various "child abuse" cases that might be brought, and let's not forget claiming Li'l Fetus on our tax returns as a dependent! "I'm eating for two, ya know!" How about the IRS investigations into whether a miscarriage was purposeful (requiring taxes!!) or an accident? Let's waste some more taxpayers' money on this nonsense!

...speaking of which how much would you like to bet that in parallel with passing this crazy and quite expensive (if actually enforced) law, they're also whining about the need to cut government spending?

Terrible as all this is, IF by some crazy luck one of these laws passes, it will be interesting to see the court cases come up. It will be terrible for those involved, but as a small shred of silver lining, PERHAPS it would finally shine some light on just how ridiculous this all is, and start swaying things in the other direction.

[No Fun My Babe]

How can a doctor knowingly not pass information even if this is "law"? What about the medical code of ethics? If a woman died or became sick due to improper information, how would that not be grounds for a lawsuit? Disgusting.

Also, the sales tax thing.... lolz. I don't even know what to say to that fuckery.

[Elle]

I just ran this by some pro-life friends of mine (FTR, most of us think it's wrong, but would support it IF babies were given some sort of anesthetic to make sure that it's not a painful death - if we make sure our raping mass-murderers feel no pain, then an unborn baby should be free from pain), and we all agree that this is WAY too far. Sales tax? As someone else here said that a friend said, so the state's profiting off murder? Requiring doctors to lie? Also not a single person I know who's pro-life thinks it starts at conception, but rather at implantation.

Also most pro-choicers I know draw the line after a baby would be viable outside the womb. I don't have a single pro-choice friend who thinks it's okay to abort a baby at 39 weeks since, at that point, the baby's going to come out the same way dead or alive.

[lilwriter85]

The sales tax thing and the breast cancer lie really pisses me off. I can see some women going out of state to have abortions because of not wanting to deal with all this crap.

[Deleted03]

The sales tax thing and the breast cancer lie really pisses me off. I can see some women going out of state to have abortions because of not wanting to deal with all this crap.

for abortion and for routine exams! I would get out of state to be sure everything is alright with the foetus if I were in that position O_o

don't trust your doctor.... That will be great again for poor women, no money to get out of state for an abortion, no money to get out of state to know if their foetus is alright, etc.

[Loveday]

The idea of a sales tax on an abortion just blows my mind. :shock:

[lilwriter85]

for abortion and for routine exams! I would get out of state to be sure everything is alright with the foetus if I were in that position O_o

don't trust your doctor.... That will be great again for poor women, no money to get out of state for an abortion, no money to get out of state to know if their foetus is alright, etc.

You bring up a good point there. It would be complicated for poor women to go out of state for exams and abortions. I believe there is a nationwide organization that helps low income women get access abortions. I can't remember the name, but I remember Dan Barker mentioning it during a speaking engagement.

[FireIsCatching89]

On behalf of my home state, I apologize. However, I didn't elect these shitheads, since I'm registered to vote in the state where I attend school, not where I grew up. Yeesh!

[valsa]

I just ran this by some pro-life friends of mine (FTR, most of us think it's wrong, but would support it IF babies were given some sort of anesthetic to make sure that it's not a painful death - if we make sure our raping mass-murderers feel no pain, then an unborn baby should be free from pain), and we all agree that this is WAY too far. Sales tax? As someone else here said that a friend said, so the state's profiting off murder? Requiring doctors to lie? Also not a single person I know who's pro-life thinks it starts at conception, but rather at implantation.

Also most pro-choicers I know draw the line after a baby would be viable outside the womb. I don't have a single pro-choice friend who thinks it's okay to abort a baby at 39 weeks since, at that point, the baby's going to come out the same way dead or alive.

Hate to say this, because it's already been said so many goddamn times- according to the most up-to-date information we have, feti do not have to capability to feel pain until at least the third trimester and likely aren't aware of it even then. This requirement also ignores the added expense, dangers, and barriers enacting something like that would cause. You might as well say "we would support it if the mother dyed her hair blue and ran a marathon first" for all it affects the fetus.

[doggie]

Jesus if you are so stupid to believe things like the abortion causes cancer crap are you really qualified to make laws?

[Burris]

They want to define "life" as beginning at conception, which would make anyone who suffers a miscarriage the suspect in a murder case. (Hey - do "suspects" who need D&Cs to remove any remaining tissue after miscarriage also have to pay that tax?)

Even though abortion is supposedly murder, however, it can still be performed often enough to justify a government tax on it; and often enough that doctors are ordered not only to lie about breast cancer, but fail to tell the truth about fetal anomalies.

Let me guess: A thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters drafted this bill.

[kpmom]

On behalf of my home state, I apologize. However, I didn't elect these shitheads, since I'm registered to vote in the state where I attend school, not where I grew up. Yeesh!

Change your voter registration back to Kansas, quick! They need all the intelligent voters they can get.

[Deleted03]

Hate to say this, because it's already been said so many goddamn times- according to the most up-to-date information we have, feti do not have to capability to feel pain until at least the third trimester and likely aren't aware of it even then. This requirement also ignores the added expense, dangers, and barriers enacting something like that would cause. You might as well say "we would support it if the mother dyed her hair blue and ran a marathon first" for all it affects the fetus.

I thought Elle was talking about 3rd trimester (which is the part that is really restricted) but I'm not speaking for her. I also thought that for 3rd trimester, a liquid is injected to kill the foetus before it is evacuated? Which would make this point moot.

[doggie]

Let me guess: A thousand monkeys with a thousand typewriters drafted this bill.

no the monkey's would have done a better job.

[Elle]

And there's evidence of pain much earlier. The ability to feel pain doesn't start with exposure to air. Better to be safe than sorry and to anesthetize the baby. Death sentences have been put on hold over concerned the condemned just might feel something despite being put under anesthesia first. Better safe than sorry.

Also many pregnant women can attest to the fact that their babies respond to drinking cold stuff and to being poked and prodded. Babies born very early have responded to stimuli outside the womb. If they can feel outside the womb, they can feel inside. It's just a way to justify not using anesthesia to say they can't feel anything.

[Guest Anonymous]

Elle, what evidence is there for foetuses feeling pain before the development of the neocortex (i.e. In the third trimester)? How are they processing/experiencing this pain?

Also, what is the reasoning behind life beginning at implantation?

[valsa]

And there's evidence of pain much earlier. The ability to feel pain doesn't start with exposure to air. Better to be safe than sorry and to anesthetize the baby. Death sentences have been put on hold over concerned the condemned just might feel something despite being put under anesthesia first. Better safe than sorry.

Also many pregnant women can attest to the fact that their babies respond to drinking cold stuff and to being poked and prodded. Babies born very early have responded to stimuli outside the womb. If they can feel outside the womb, they can feel inside. It's just a way to justify not using anesthesia to say they can't feel anything.

Feti do not have the physiological ability to feel pain (as in, the actual nerve receptors and neural pathways) until after the point that over 80% of abortions are performed. Also, a physical reaction to a stimulus does not equal a perception of pain.

Better safe than sorry? Only if you actually have something concrete to back up your concerns. Otherwise, why not claim a fertilized egg can feel pain and so the morning after pill shouldn't be allowed? Better safe than sorry, right?

[fundyfunland]

• Doctors are also shielded from lawsuits if they withhold critical health information from pregnant women that could cause them to decide to have an abortion. In other words, they don’t have to tell women about the health of the fetus they carry and don’t have to tell women about any problems with the pregnancy.

So wait, if the doctor has to withold information regarding a potential problem for the woman, and this problem leads to her own death....say pre-eclampsia (ahem...Michelle Duggar!), because she wasn't given the option to terminate the pregnancy, wouldn't the state (who made the law) be committing manslaughter?

[Guest Anonymous]

So wait, if the doctor has to withold information regarding a potential problem for the woman, and this problem leads to her own death....say pre-eclampsia (ahem...Michelle Duggar!), because she wasn't given the option to terminate the pregnancy, wouldn't the state (who made the law) be committing manslaughter?

Isn't that better than MURDER!!? :roll: