Wow, this adoptive mom is a bitch.

[lilah]

mong Russian speakers, Dasha is usually short for Darya, but it's possible that it could also be short for Diana. I have a similar name (I'm Russian), and my nickname is also not a "natural" sounding derivative of my name, if that makes sense. Russian naming practices are interesting.

(And I do realize that this girl is Ukrainian, but the woman mentioned Russian so I am guessing that the girl is from the part of Ukraine where is Russian is predominantly spoken.)

That makes more sense, Dasha is a pretty common Russian/Ukrainie nickname.

The "changing a child's name" thing is a very complex issue, especially with adopting an older child. If I adopt, I'll probably change the child's name by adding a new first and last name, and moving the child's original first and last name to middle names. This preserves the original names, giving them the option to use them later on, while also making life in America easier. It's an unfortunate reality that, in the U.S., your name matters. It's been proven many times over that having an ethnic-sounding or unikqueli-spelled name can negatively impact everything from everyday annoyances to work opportunities.

Except that Diana/Daria are way more common names than Berkeley is an unusual name too. There was even a tv show about a girl name Daria in the 90's. I associate the name Berkeley with the super liberal town/college in California.

I think that if you are used to being calling one thing for 7 years it would be very disorienting to have your name changed without your full knowledge and consent as you are trying to process the fact that you've suddenly got a new family, living in a new country and everyone is speaking a new language. It has to be very very very disorienting. I understand why adoptive parents might want to change a child's name as a way of claiming them and because in some cases their original names were hard to pronounce but even still it's something that the child should have a say in, and should not be done the second they get to their new home.

[valsa]

Most responsible adoptive parents change their child's name gradually so that it's not so disorienting. Several of the adoptive parents I know had a process that, in this child's case, would have been to call the child: Dasha-Berkeley, then Berkeley-Dasha, then finally just Berkeley.

You are correct that there can be an element of "claiming" when it comes to changing an adopted child's name. There's also the very real issue that sometimes people just don't like their kid's original names. For instance, I like the name Diana but I hate the name Daria. In this child's case, had her name been Daria, I would have changed it for that reason alone.

[dairyfreelife]

The mom who blogs Smiles and Trials says that some of her adoptive children have the American version of their Russian birth names.

Yeah, I think one of her adopted sons was named Denise so she changed it to Dennis for his sake and same with her son Alex, who I think was called Alexa there or something similar. It's still very close to the original names. I think she also added a name to one of her daughters so she wouldn't have two Annas.

The mom at Life with My Special K's changed her adopted daughter's name, but she did it so her adopted daughter would be a part of the family dynamic.

[BelieveinScience]

Yeah, I think one of her adopted sons was named Denise so she changed it to Dennis for his sake and same with her son Alex, who I think was called Alexa there or something similar. It's still very close to the original names. I think she also added a name to one of her daughters so she wouldn't have two Annas.

The mom at Life with My Special K's changed her adopted daughter's name, but she did it so her adopted daughter would be a part of the family dynamic.

Kellsey hasn't respond to her given name in a long time (like since very shortly after she came home) she'll give you a WTF look. :)

You also have to wonder in orphanages with special needs kids just how much they are even called by their names or if they even KNOW their names.

[Maul the Koala]

Yeah, I think one of her adopted sons was named Denise so she changed it to Dennis for his sake and same with her son Alex, who I think was called Alexa there or something similar. It's still very close to the original names. I think she also added a name to one of her daughters so she wouldn't have two Annas.

The mom at Life with My Special K's changed her adopted daughter's name, but she did it so her adopted daughter would be a part of the family dynamic.

/hijack

If those boys had Russian names it would been Denis (Денис) and Aleksandr (Александг) or Aleksei (Алексей). Russian names are almost all exclusively male or female. You just don't give a boy a female name or a female a male name. The Russian government used to regulate names. I'm not sure if they still do but it's still pretty ingrained. I've heard of people that tried to name their children with the dimutative of a given name, such as Anya instead of Anna or Asya instead of Anastasiya, and the officials said absolutely not.

[CanadianHippie]

Most responsible adoptive parents change their child's name gradually so that it's not so disorienting.

Most people I know who were adopted outside of the country didn't have their name changed at all.

[valsa]

Most people I know who were adopted outside of the country didn't have their name changed at all.

The ones I know are about 50%-50%. Used to be that new names replaced original ones, now most people seem to incorporate both new and original names (mostly using middle names)

[FloraDoraDolly]

The ones I know are about 50%-50%. Used to be that new names replaced original ones, now most people seem to incorporate both new and original names (mostly using middle names)

The kids I know who were adopted from China all had their first names changed, but in most cases the parents kept the child's Chinese name as a middle name. But these children were babies when they got adopted and I doubt the orphanage workers called them by their names much, anyhow.

From what I've seen of African adoptees, their names usually aren't "foreign". I don't know if this is because of naming trends in their countries of origin or if it's because American orphanage workers named the kids. At any rate, the kids I know from Africa got to keep their names.

With Russian kids, the adoptive parents usually change or Americanize their names. But Berkeley??? GACK!!!

[Juniper]

Yup. A woman named Sh'Dynasty will have a much harder time getting a decent-paying job that one names Mary. There's a presumption that someone with an unusual name is less educated, and while there's some truth to people who are lower educated being more likely to name their children uncommon names, it's unfair to presume that the person, who had no say when being named, is always uneducated. However people with names like Brittany and Ashley and Tiffany are also not quite as likely to be taken seriously, especially when given "trendy" spellings, e.g. Brittni, Ashlie, Tiffini. Names make a first impression, and those hiring are going to,even on a subconscious level, assign some impression to a name. Martha, Mary, Elizabeth, Thomas, William, John, basically more traditional names, as long as you don't get too old-fashioned (Agnes, Shirley [originally a man's name], Bertha) or too non-English (Helga, Eleminia) are more likely to get someone an interview.

I read a couple books on this just last summer, and it was really interesting to see the evolution of names, how they trickle down (the unusual names rich people use can be expected to be found as names for middle class babies, then poorer babies, as a bit of time passes), and how a name can affect someone's job prospects, and even romantic prospects, in life.

/hijack

If those boys had Russian names it would been Denis (Денис) and Aleksandr (Александг) or Aleksei (Алексей). Russian names are almost all exclusively male or female. You just don't give a boy a female name or a female a male name. The Russian government used to regulate names. I'm not sure if they still do but it's still pretty ingrained. I've heard of people that tried to name their children with the dimutative of a given name, such as Anya instead of Anna or Asya instead of Anastasiya, and the officials said absolutely not.

Continuing slightly OT but do you think that Russian names like Anya or Asya have the same effect on the job hunt? I can understand the romantic prospects in a convoluted way (ie Russian boy wants to marry Russian girl, name shows nationality) but with jobs, I'm curious as to whether studies show it plays a role in the workplace.

Edited to add: I'm curious because my sister is pregnant & we've been discussing traditional Polish names for the baby but we wonder if it's going to be helpful to have a "unique" Polish name or to go the Americanized route.

[SoybeanQueen]

She went through the comprehensive medical stuff, and it was determined that because of her history of having ADD, that she wasn't stable enough to adopt.

Either there's more to the story that she isn't sharing, or she got the crappiest homestudy worker ever. I have ADD (past and present), have had depression in the past, and have an autoimmune disorder, and I had absolutely no trouble with the medical/psychological portions of the homestudy. Yes, there are some countries that rule out all medicated mental illness for international adoption, but there are plenty of options away from those countries.

I would encourage her to try a different agency.

[SoybeanQueen]

My dad has called me the biggest mistake they ever made. Does anyone realize the lifetime scarring they are inflicting because of the attitude with which they greet the child.

Holy crap. This makes me want to go wake up my kids and hug them again, even though I already spent an hour snuggling with my wee boy because he was scared of the thunderstorms.

[SoybeanQueen]

Is there such a thing as post-adoption depression, similar to post-natal/post-partum depression? Her saying 'it makes me want to kill' raises some serious depressive illness red flags for me. I think this lady is very, very ill. I'm not excusing her behaviour but it sounds like a major depressive episode, not just being a bitch. I hope she gets some help, and soon.

Yes, there is definitely such a thing, and I think you're right.

[SoybeanQueen]

Generally speaking, I think adoption agencies need to do a better job of preparing these parents for what's likely to happen when they bring their child home. In addition to their native culture, the internationally adopted child has also grown up in an "orphanage culture."

Of course, it varies by agency, but I think many do the education thing, plus there are a million resources online and loads of recommended books for adoptive parents. In my opinion, the biggest problem is that so many potential adoptive parents ignore the training because they're convinced that their parenting superpowers and unconditional love will magically erase any possible problems once their kiddo comes home. It seems like many of them (at least many whose blogs I've read) expect a doll instead of a child. And their child won't be the one with severe behavioral disorders!

Before we adopted our kids, we took an in-person class that discussed potential behavioral issues and discipline ideas, then later we took an online update class with even more info, including how to help a child transition while honoring their past, plus our adoption worker sent me a list of books she thought were good, which I went out and bought and read. I also spent a lot of time reading forums and asking questions of people who had already finalized adoptions. All of the info we needed was out there. Some of it was handed to us, some of it I had to look for. But I had to want to see it, you know?

Edited to add, because I don't want to do a whole other post after my three in a row:

Our kids were older when they joined our family, and were from our state, so their names were not foreign. We did change their names, though, for safety reasons. My oldest chose her own first name and I gave her a family name for her middle because that was a family tradition I wanted her to be part of. My boys tried to name themselves Spiderman and Optimus Prime, so I gave them a list of more appropriate names to choose from. I did try to use both old and new names for a while, but it was shocking to me how quickly they seemed comfortable with the new ones. While my oldest liked her old first name, she also felt very unsafe thinking that certain people from her past could find her. The new name seemed to offer her a fresh start and some relief that she was a bit safer. For some kids, it may be less "ripping away their old life" and more "moving past some things they'd rather forget."

[Maul the Koala]

Continuing slightly OT but do you think that Russian names like Anya or Asya have the same effect on the job hunt? I can understand the romantic prospects in a convoluted way (ie Russian boy wants to marry Russian girl, name shows nationality) but with jobs, I'm curious as to whether studies show it plays a role in the workplace.

Edited to add: I'm curious because my sister is pregnant & we've been discussing traditional Polish names for the baby but we wonder if it's going to be helpful to have a "unique" Polish name or to go the Americanized route.

Most of the 'traditional' Russian names you see are pretty compatible in English. It's when you get to names like Nadezhda when people go "Uh, what now?". I'd be careful with Polish just because of how all the letters are strung together. Dorota and Edyta are fairly recognizable, although my friends with those names hated how North Americans pronounced them so they went by Dorothy and Edith. Małgorzata is going to be harder to pull off. My friends with Eastern European names ended up giving their children the Anglicized versions of the names here because they were tired of people not being able to say their own names properly.

[luckystone]

She changed it from Diana/Dasha to Berkeley?! In a child that old? Wtf

[JesusFightClub]

I do not understand such an attitude to a child. The wean is looking for reassurance "you are my mummy now, right? Right?" So you would hug them and make sure they knew not to worry. And put up with annoying behaviour.

When I look after Small I treat her as a wee comrade. That means if she does something really wrong I get angry, if she has a question I do my best to answer, we have a good laugh, and I respect her and her feelings at all times. Small has challenging behaviours due to trauma, but she's a good kid and you just need to work out where she is coming from.

I am the least maternal woman ever. How can you be maternal enough to adopt but not enough to deal with the huge issues international adoption presents?

[Mama Mia]

I'm shocked and appalled that someone would think it is okay to just change the name of a seven year old :cry: that is just completely wiping away their identity as a human being. Fucked up. If the name is too hard to pronounce, use a modified form, or a nick name or something - but to just change the name of a half grown kid ? Wow.

I can understand some of her frustration, especially reading about the cruel sense of humor - I think people are very, very, very unprepared for how trying and obnoxious the behavior of some institutionalized/ neglected children can be.

I have no experience with the international issues, but have worked with children in the foster care system and many of them have behaviors that would make it very difficult to bond. I think maybe these adoptive parent's read about the challenges, but aren't really prepared for the reality and just don't have the patience and training to deal with it. It's very sad all the way around.

[camdendayton]

ALL kids go through the mommymommymommymommymommymommy thing. I just told mine that I was changing my name and not letting her know what my new name was. :lol:

hehe :) I taught middle school and I got the teacherteacherteacher from some of those kids. Of course my name is not teacher, and I would remind them of that, but it didn't stop it. I think the calling a caregivers name over and over and over happens whenever a child realizes it will get a response, and continues until they are certain it will work whenever they really need it. In the case of my middle school kids I'm sure some of them still weren't sure as there were a lot who were starved for attention, and more of them would probably call teacherteacherteacher more if it hadn't been "beaten" out of them by previous frazzled teachers.

But then how would your child know to fear you?

And now I've just made myself sick having to type that...

I am kind of hoping she's experiencing post adoption depression because otherwise, yikes! Hope she gets some help.

Whenever I read about adoptive parents who are just baffled by their kids exhibiting behaviors typical in children who were traumatized/institutionalized I wonder why people who would are willing to pay thousands of dollars, travel around the world and fill out hours of paperwork but can't be bothered to research adoptive parenting. It seems like an absurd level of hubris to think that love and jesus alone is going to heal your kid.

I never cease to be amazed by how stupid and self-centered people can be. While she (or possibly her husband? I haven't even tried to go to the blog yet since there's so much to read here) was willing to do all the work, that doesn't mean they didn't think "I already have kids. I know what they need and this one will be so grateful and everyone will think I'm wonderful!!eleventy!!! It's still totally disgusting.

As far as offering adoptive parents support and education before and after the adoption, I feel like it wouldn't do much good with the fundies. They reject child psychology and any extra-Biblical parenting ideas or research, and they refuse to believe that children are unique individuals with needs and that trauma cannot be prayed away. You could tell them that a 5 y/o with an attachment disorder is scared, not being rebellious - but they'll still insist it is the child's "sin nature" and that there is only one way to deal with it. No matter what information presents itself, they will insist that their way is the only way, and anyone who says different is just a heathen.

QFT

[camdendayton]

Have you heard of the Lebensborn program? Under HItler's regime, a program was set up to create a "super race" of humans. Aryan, blond with blue eyes preferred, having to trace family trees back generations. Not all those who applied were accepted. SS officers were encouraged to have as many babies with Aryan women as possible.

Over a quarter million non-German children who could visually pass for Hitler's vision of pure were kidnapped and given to German families to be indoctrinated with the belief of Hitler and to be raised as German children. At the end of the war, many of these children believed so fiercely that they were German that they refused to go back to their real families, and many German families refused to give up those who did.

These Christian-savior-idiots remind me of that. Remove a child from their culture/religion to indoctrinate them into some "superior" culture/religion.

Scary :o

[Someonetocall]

My boys tried to name themselves Spiderman and Optimus Prime...

:D I love it. You never know unless you try.

[MaroonMandy]

I have a friend who adopted her daughter from China, and she makes sure her daughter has every chance to honor her culture, the whole family participates in Chinese events and education, her adoption day is celebrated like a birthday because her adoption is seen as a great thing because it completed their family, etc..

I have a friend who is in the process of adopting from Thailand (all they're waiting on is some final paperwork!) and this is the road she and her family are taking. My friend is taking Thai cooking and language classes and has developed an obsession with the Thai soap operas her daughter-to-be likes to watch (she's 11). They've also send her paint and fabric samples so she was able to pick out her bedroom color and the curtains and bedding she wanted.

To me that seems like the smart and caring thing to do...this blog lady how every is in tight with the coo-coo.

ETA: Apparently Thai soaps aren't like the ones in the U.S., so they're totally okay for the tween set.

[Austin]

I do not understand such an attitude to a child. The wean is looking for reassurance "you are my mummy now, right? Right?" So you would hug them and make sure they knew not to worry. And put up with annoying behaviour.

When I look after Small I treat her as a wee comrade. That means if she does something really wrong I get angry, if she has a question I do my best to answer, we have a good laugh, and I respect her and her feelings at all times. Small has challenging behaviours due to trauma, but she's a good kid and you just need to work out where she is coming from.

I am the least maternal woman ever. How can you be maternal enough to adopt but not enough to deal with the huge issues international adoption presents?

You are far more maternal than a lot of these women, so you can't possibly be the "least maternal woman ever". :) I know that you don't see children in your own future, but when we discuss children on FJ, and you weigh in with your experiences with your nieces, your instincts almost always seem to be spot-on. This is probably because you are a compassionate person who cares about other people beyond yourself, and you are well able to employ common sense. These are apparently character traits that many of these women lack completely.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

My boys tried to name themselves Spiderman and Optimus Prime, so I gave them a list of more appropriate names to choose from.

LOL.

In college I knew a guy named Buck Rogers. He was not adopted, but naturalized to the US at age 10 along with his family, and they let him pick his own name. Generally going by "Buck" wasn't too bad, but still, a pretty funny story.

In only tangentially related news, I am eternally grateful that my parents never let me have a tattoo...

[Tanaqui]

This thread has inspired me to re-read Elizabeth Kim's Ten Thousand Sorrows, which reads a lot like the blogs being discussed. I guess fundies never change.

[LilMissMetaphor]

This particular woman does identify as atheist, BTW. Crazy is not limited to fundies.

Also, since we were speaking of those awful kids-as-food blogs again, check this one out:

(From porknbeansinchina. They have five adopted daughters from China and are adopting another.)

For those of you who are my age, you will remember the Doris Day movie, "With six you get eggroll." I love Doris Day movies and that has always been one of my favorite. However, I digress...Daddy and I had talked about adding our caboose, and this IS the LAST ONE!! We will have our sixpack of eggrolls!!

I don't even.