Mayim Bialik

[Wolfie]

So, I was listening to Science Friday on NPR between work sites today, and this came on, http://www.npr.org/2012/05/04/152026801 ... -the-combo

She has a degree in Biology, and plays Sheldon's kind of girlfriend on Big Bang Theory. But anyway, somebody called, and this was a part of the conversation that caught my ear...

AMY: I also want to thank you for your willingness to come and - Mayim is coming to speak to our school in West Hartford. And something that hasn't been brought up and maybe you don't talk about a lot is just we're grateful that - to see someone who is an Orthodox Jew who is able to maintain that presence and dress appropriately, as one would, on a national television show.

And I want to thank you for being able to do that and role-modeling that for young women (unintelligible) as a neuroscientist.

BIALIK: No, I appreciate it sincerely. I will say that, you know, the decision for them to dress Amy frumpy has nothing to do, you know, with any levels of Jewish or religious modesty, but I think it's been really nice that we've had a consistent look for Amy that absolutely, you know, is in some ways consistent with how I tend to dress.

But there's nothing about, you know, any dress codes that say that you have to be frumpy. But yes, Amy happens to be a frumpy version of me, I guess.

I was just thinking, yay, put that caller in her place. Modest does not have to mean frumpy.

But then of course this came up:

FLATOW: And I know what - you know what the question is going to be about, I'm sure.

BIALIK: I've got about seven choices, but go ahead, lay it on me.

(SOUNDBITE OF LAUGHTER)

FLATOW: No, it's the fact that you have not vaccinated your kids.

BIALIK: Oh, I rarely talk about that. That's so funny.

FLATOW: Well, people were very eager to talk about it because you're in agreement with the American Academy of Pediatricians on their stance on breastfeeding, as you point out in your book. But the group also strongly recommends vaccinations for kids.

BIALIK: Sure, and also I should say that attachment parenting, as defined by Dr. William Sears and Attachment Parenting International, has absolutely no opinion on vaccines. It's a completely separate issue, one that I do not discuss in the book for that reason.

And what I do mention in the book is I give some resources for kind of pros and cons kinds of books. Dr. Lawrence Fader(ph) wrote a fantastic small book. What I do say is that we researched every single vaccine, and we spoke about each individual vaccine with our pediatrician. We went to the CDC sources.

The number of vaccines that you and I received when we were kids is a third or a fourth less than what kids get now. So my feeling is you can really do whatever you want, just like I get to do whatever I want, but I don't inherently think that no one should get the flu, for example. And that's my personal opinion.

FLATOW: You mean the vaccine.

BIALIK: Yeah, meaning to me, the things that people choose to vaccinate against are not necessarily things that were vaccinated against 20, 30 years ago. My feeling is everyone gets to decide and do research based on their family and their needs as to what they want to do. But it's completely separate from attachment parenting or from my book.

I have to say that I'm glad that she thinks it's a personal choice, but I'm also very confused at how somebody with a science degree can misunderstand how vaccines work.

[valsa]

I've honestly always found her to be a bit "out there". IIRC, she also practices "elimination communication" (no diapers for babies)

[Kitten]

...the things that people choose to vaccinate against are not necessarily things that were vaccinated against 20, 30 years ago.

Is that maybe because, oh, I dunno, those vaccines hadn't been developed yet??!! My parents weren't vaccinated against polio as children, because that vaccine wasn't available until 1962. Even though I had asthma, I wasn't vaccinated against the flu until I was an adult because the vaccine wasn't routinely available until then.

Just goes to show you, even "smart' people think dumb, sometimes.

Although I do agree that choosing to vaccinate is a CHOICE, it is one that can affect people other than yourself, which, in my mind, carries greater responsibility. Witness the recent rise in US measles cases, where unvaccinated people are coming into contact with a carrier, usually someone who has been overseas. They then spread it to other unvaccinated people (with whom they are more likely to associate, given common beliefs). And most of these "childhood" diseases are not benign - many children routinely died of them before the age of 6.

[xDreamerx]

In my opinion she's just fucking weird. I'm all for raising your children in ways that you deem acceptable as an individual or as parents, but not when that choice can pose serious harm or the risk of harm to the child. I'm really opposed to the anti-vax movement for obvious reasons. I knew about the Orthodox Jew thing and the breast feeding thing but not the elimination thing. The breast feeding thing seems unhealthy because in an article I read, she mentioned she only fed the child breast milk and the child was nearly 3. Shouldn't they have a decent amount of solids by that age? I thought you were supposed to start introducing cereals and such at 5 months or thereabouts. Pure milk, though filled with nutrients, can't be good for the child's digestive system. And what the hell do you do without diapers? Does the kid just go wherever?

[FakePigtails]

I have to say that I'm glad that she thinks it's a personal choice, but I'm also very confused at how somebody with a science degree can misunderstand how vaccines work.

Yeah, I tend to curse when I see her on the The Big Bang Theory, which I otherwise like. I mean, really, playing the "too many, too soon" card?

While children are receiving more immunizations by the age of two, they are actually receiving less antigens, or bits of the vaccine that would challenge the immune system. Overall numbers of antigens have fallen from about 3,041 in 1980 to approximately 153 today. Compare this number to the trillions of bacteria infants are exposed to, and form an immune response against, the moment they are born. Babies' immune systems are well-equipped to handle not only those bacteria but many more additional, external threats.

http://www.vaccinateyourbaby.org/safe/autism/overburdening.cfm

Besides the numerous safety studies . . . how she has studied science extensively and yet still ignores the facts with this topic is beyond me.

[WonderingInWA]

I "liked" her on FB and watch her posts as she is touring to promote her book. I find her fascinating. She's brilliant and I like a lot of the things she says. She does practice AP and EB (extended breastfeeding -- I believe she is still nursing her youngest son who is 4). She's also very much into her faith and because I'm not Jewish nor know much about it, I enjoy reading what she writes. She's got a lot to balance -- a career, motherhood, her faith, her privacy -- and I don't blame her at all for not vaxing her kids. There is a LOT of information out there about vaccinations and as a society we tend to overmedicate anyway. If she did the research, she must have good reasons to support her choices. And I agree with her -- it is a personal choice based on information and family history and gut instinct and blah, blah, blah.

ETA: I do think EC (elimination communication) is a bit over the top, but again, it's personal parenting choices. I would find that tremendously time consuming, but if she can do it and teach her kids from Day #1 to use a toilet instead of a diaper, all the more power to her. I have known several families who have tried it and have been successful. I just found my own two boys were ready to use the toilet around the age of 3 because they got tired of diapers.

[FakePigtails]

I "liked" her on FB and watch her posts as she is touring to promote her book. I find her fascinating. She's brilliant and I like a lot of the things she says. She does practice AP and EB (extended breastfeeding -- I believe she is still nursing her youngest son who is 4). She's also very much into her faith and because I'm not Jewish nor know much about it, I enjoy reading what she writes. She's got a lot to balance -- a career, motherhood, her faith, her privacy -- and I don't blame her at all for not vaxing her kids. There is a LOT of information out there about vaccinations and as a society we tend to overmedicate anyway. If she did the research, she must have good reasons to support her choices. And I agree with her -- it is a personal choice based on information and family history and gut instinct and blah, blah, blah.

But her information is wrong, she's ignoring very valid information showing vaccines are necessary and safe, and any scientist worth their salt should know better than to trust gut instinct over scientific research (really, everyone should be doing that, but that's kind of an especially Big Thing in science).

[FakePigtails]

Is that maybe because, oh, I dunno, those vaccines hadn't been developed yet??!! My parents weren't vaccinated against polio as children, because that vaccine wasn't available until 1962. Even though I had asthma, I wasn't vaccinated against the flu until I was an adult because the vaccine wasn't routinely available until then.

Tons of medical treatments (consisting of artificial chemicals and such :roll: ) exist now that didn't then. I doubt she ignores those just because they're younger than her.

[Conuly]

I shouldn't think that pure breastmilk would be truly deficient, nutritionally, for a small child or particularly bad for their digestion. By three they SHOULD be on solids, no argument, but I doubt it's actually nutritionally *dangerous* for them not to be on solids. Even though they should be. Are you *sure* it said she was still exclusively breastfeeding at that age? As far as "start at 5 months" the current recommendation of the WHO is six months at the earliest, though it's definitely not necessary to start with cereals. There's some research that indicates that starting with cereals (which can be highly allergenic and aren't very nutritious on their own) may not be the best thing. At any rate, the rule is "under one, just for fun". If your kid isn't interested, you know they aren't losing out if they're younger than 12 months, and, again, I'm not *sure* if it's nutritionally incomplete after that age. Weird, but not necessarily unhealthy.

As far as EC goes, the idea is that while you can't teach a baby to hold it in you CAN teach them to go on cue, so every few hours (or when they're fussing in a way that you know indicates they need to go soon) you get them to a toilet or a garbage can or a pail, hold them over it, and use your cue word of "Go pee-pee!" or "Sisss!" or whatever and they go on cue. And then, having emptied their bodies, they don't go randomly everywhere.

This isn't a truly novel concept, it's been around in the West for at least 300 years, possibly longer. (I have a book on historical parenting manuals, and "holding out" was definitely mentioned that long ago.) I don't know what the actual rate of accidents is, of course - no doubt it varies according to the child/parent pair. Many, many people who practice EC still put their kids in pull-up style diapers (sewn smaller for infants) just in case.

[Inky]

I've honestly always found her to be a bit "out there". IIRC, she also practices "elimination communication" (no diapers for babies)

She sounds like a bit of a wingnut but I've always enjoyed watching her as an actress so I can overlook her personal choices (which can and do affect others in a very negative way re vaccination - for example an ill 4 month old baby at the same pediatricians office)

But the elimination communication thing does fascinate me, particularly when some friends came home from China with their newly adopted baby and were telling us about the baby outfits. They have a slit opening in the crotch and that is how they go. No diapers except on airplanes and places like that. We weren't sure exactly how that would work outdoors in public though. I guess it would just end up on the ground, since you may be able to "read" when your baby is going to eliminate, you can't tell him/her to wait until you get to a toilet.

And I have an 8 week old grandson - I would NOT want to step in that! The saying "sticks like babysh*t to a blanket" comes to mind.

[valsa]

For the "elimination communication", I wouldn't have a problem if it weren't for some of the things I saw on the documentary that I originally knew Mayim practiced it from. Including people who allowed their children to use the bathroom outdoors and, in one gross example (it may have even been Mayim), someone who was allowing their child to pee in the sink of a grocery store public restroom.

Basically, if someone let's their kid (as opposed to an accident) go to the bathroom somewhere I might sit, walk, or wash my hands- it's not just their perogative anymore.

[clibbyjo]

Oh YAY, ANOTHER vaccine thread!!!! I guess the 28 we have had were not enough? :doh:

[emmiedahl]

Oh YAY, ANOTHER vaccine thread!!!! I guess the 28 we have had were not enough? :doh:

:lol: (bows to the goddess)

[WonderingInWA]

Well, and in underdeveloped nations where there are no Pampers, the children learn EC because they are more in tuned with their bodies (that's what I think, anyway). My own grandmother claimed my aunt was potty-trained by the time she was 5 months old (in 1934) and we always thought she was bat-shit crazy, but I think she was just practicing EC and she didn't know what to call it. If you think about it, it really is gross that we let our kids eliminate in super absorbant diapers -- why would they want to take the time to visit the bathroom if they can pee their pants and keep on playing, right? Honestly, I let my kids tell me when they were ready, but I also used disposable diapers which kept them comfortable so there was really no incentive other than maturity. My oldest son was 3.5 when he finally started using the toilet without fail (and he made the switch in 3 days, so he was ready) and my youngest was 3 and he just took it upon himself (he's a neat freak and doesn't like having a messy or wet bottom!). Every child is different and every parent is different in their tolerance with potty issues.

And I would be surprised if Mayim didn't give her son solids until 3. I know my kids insisted on trying foods we were eating at the table at around 6-7 months and it would have been cruel to keep them from them (within reason -- obviously I wasn't giving them choke foods and the like). I think it's fine she continues to breastfeed -- I was really glad when my kids weaned themselves because I was tired of it.

[dawn9476]

She also homeschools her kids. In an interview she gave to the Celebrity Baby Blog a few years ago, she talked about how her oldest, who was 3 at the time, was taking a french class. In this new interview with NPR, she talks about how she is teaching science in the community and how she is schooling her kids with a big emphasis on science and math.

FLATOW: Any thoughts about when your kids are older that you might go back to being a real-life geek again as a scientist?

BIALIK: I actually, I teach neuroscience. I teach in our home school community. I've been teaching neuroscience since I got my degree. So our boys get a good dose of that and see that I'm still an active scientist. I actually - I'm the spokesperson for Texas Instruments, the graphing calculator and scientific calculator people. So we've already started our boys with the new NSpire. You know, we like to show them a lifestyle of science and math. And it's actually been really fun, that like with T.I., I get to have access to all, you know, all the like pH probes and temperature probes that can hook up to this calculator. We've started our boys as soon as possible...

[FaustianSlip]

I have really mixed feelings on Mayim Bialik (though I read somewhere recently that she doesn't identify as Orthodox, at least not yet, because there are times when she'll work in the studio on Shabbat and/or Yom Tov), and the no vaccinations thing is just ludicrous. That said, elimination communication isn't particularly bizarre; almost all parents/grandparents use it here in China. The kids wear those aforementioned split pants, and grandma or grandpa will hold them over a trash can or something and whistle, cuing the kid to do their business. You see it everywhere (of course, you also see kids just popping a squat on the sidewalk, so...). I don't know that I would use that method, myself, but it's not some niche thing everywhere the way it is in the West. And it's not like you can't get diapers in China if you want to.

[fluttershies]

Bialik is Conservadox iirc.

[Conuly]

Including people who allowed their children to use the bathroom outdoors

A LOT of people have allowed their children to potty outdoors at least once per kid. When they've gotta go, they've gotta go, and if there's no toilet they WILL go outdoors. The only question is whether or not their pants will get dirty in the process. It doesn't matter what your potty-training method and timing is, they have small little bladders and they often have very little warning as well.

Which is why some people have had this bright idea and sell little portable potty seats with disposable liners so your kid can go when they need to without making a mess on the ground. I guess that's better than just using a convenient bush...?

[valsa]

A LOT of people have allowed their children to potty outdoors at least once per kid. When they've gotta go, they've gotta go, and if there's no toilet they WILL go outdoors. The only question is whether or not their pants will get dirty in the process. It doesn't matter what your potty-training method and timing is, they have small little bladders and they often have very little warning as well.

Which is why some people have had this bright idea and sell little portable potty seats with disposable liners so your kid can go when they need to without making a mess on the ground. I guess that's better than just using a convenient bush...?

There's a difference between an emergency and a way of life.

[Witsec7]

Bialik is Conservadox iirc.

Yup and sometimes she gets on my last nerve.

I'm actually very bummed I missed Science Friday its something I look forward to.

[Austin]

I honestly had no idea who this person is so I googled her. And I still don't know who she is, except that I must have seen her in the Bette Midler movie but she didn't leave a lasting impression.

[Conuly]

There's a difference between an emergency and a way of life.

True, but I'm not going to get too worked up about it. People let their dogs go on the ground too, and even if they're responsible they never get the pee up. It's *tacky*, to be sure, but lots of people with babies do tacky things, like changing diapers on restaurant tables. At least EC'ers are unlikely to do THAT. And that's where people EAT!

[Witsec7]

I honestly had no idea who this person is so I googled her. And I still don't know who she is, except that I must have seen her in the Bette Midler movie but she didn't leave a lasting impression.

She was a girl named Blossom in a TV show by the same name. DD loved the show.

[valsa]

True, but I'm not going to get too worked up about it. People let their dogs go on the ground too, and even if they're responsible they never get the pee up. It's *tacky*, to be sure, but lots of people with babies do tacky things, like changing diapers on restaurant tables. At least EC'ers are unlikely to do THAT. And that's where people EAT!

Good thing I can find enough room in my heart to get worked up about both.

[fluttershies]

I enjoy TBBT and think that Amy (Bialik's character) and Bernadette saved the show pretty much, but I really have to separate my enjoyment of Bialik's character and Bialik herself. It irritates me that someone who has a neuroscience PhD would be so caught up in incredibly anti-science ideas.