Jewish Fundie Sex Ed

[RR88]

I thought some of you would find this interesting...It's a now-defunct forum for Orthodox Jews who ask advice on "marital issues". Most Jewish fundies, who do not touch their fiancées before marriage, attend "classes" before marriage to teach them about the mechanics of sex (and the laws of sexual separation during marriage), and they are often expected to "go from 0 to 60" on their wedding night. Let me know what you think: calmkallahs.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3941

[Beammeup]

Yeah, that sounds wonderful.

Side note: When will people STOP recommending KY? There are SO many much better lubes on the market. KY sucks, and not in a good way.

[RR88]

I call it Kentucky jelly. :lol:

[Mela99]

The "hard and fast" comment....

I can't.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I know a couple of women who teach these classes, but have never gotten up the courage to ask the details. My mother-in-law's nutritionist happens to be the resident sexpert on imamother.com.

Anyone want to dare me to ask?

[darkplumaged]

Yeah, that sounds wonderful.

Side note: When will people STOP recommending KY? There are SO many much better lubes on the market. KY sucks, and not in a good way.

Preach it. KY is so viscous--a thin lube like Astroglide is perfect.

[RR88]

Preach it. KY is so viscous--a thin lube like Astroglide is perfect.

I'm with you.

[darkplumaged]

This is just...

If you don't go in hard and fast the first time (after all the foreplay, of course) you can damage the hymen without actually removing it completely. The net result can be months and months of bleeding during sex which causes untold nidda problems.

I'm going to skip over the "hard and fast" stuff ( :shock: ) and ask anyone who knows about nidda problems related to bleeding as a result of sex. I would imagine that a lot of women bleed the first time (and I would imagine it's even more likely if the woman is nervous and completely inexperienced), so what happens? The couple might not even know about the bleeding until they're, um, done, so...?

[RR88]

As soon as the woman's hymen is broken, the couple are expected to quickly finish the "act" and separate...even if there is no blood.

[RR88]

yoatzot.org/question.php?id=2648

Once intercourse happens, the couple may not touch each other for twelve days.

[darkplumaged]

yoatzot.org/question.php?id=2648

Once intercourse happens, the couple may not touch each other for twelve days.

... and at the end of those twelve days, the woman might get her period, so the couple would then not be able to touch one another for the better part of a month. That's a great way for newlyweds to bond. :roll:

[RR88]

Indeed. This is why some women time their weddings so as to get their periods a few days after their wedding nights.

[RR88]

darkplumaged may find this discussion informative: hashkafah.com/index.php?/topic/64329-getting-around-dam-besulim/

[2xx1xy1JD]

Indeed. This is why some women time their weddings so as to get their periods a few days after their wedding nights.

If she was taking the Pill to prevent having her period before the wedding, then she would go off of it right after the wedding, get her period, and the sex resumes 2 weeks later. Orthodox Jews don't do away right away for a honeymoon - there's a week of dinners with family and friends instead, and they can then go away if they want at a more convenient time.

Also, not every couple goes "all the way" on the wedding night. I know some who took longer.

[RR88]

So do I. It's discouraged, though.

[Sola]

This is just...

I'm going to skip over the "hard and fast" stuff ( :shock: ) and ask anyone who knows about nidda problems related to bleeding as a result of sex. I would imagine that a lot of women bleed the first time (and I would imagine it's even more likely if the woman is nervous and completely inexperienced), so what happens? The couple might not even know about the bleeding until they're, um, done, so...?

:o Seriously? Who told him that? I feel so sorry for his poor bride.

[Anise]

This is just...

I'm going to skip over the "hard and fast" stuff ( :shock: ) and ask anyone who knows about nidda problems related to bleeding as a result of sex. I would imagine that a lot of women bleed the first time (and I would imagine it's even more likely if the woman is nervous and completely inexperienced), so what happens? The couple might not even know about the bleeding until they're, um, done, so...?

:shock:

I've done my research on hymens, and they are definitely not supposed to break- they are supposed to gradually wear away with time. And I shudder to speculate that should anyone follow this advice, they wouldn't even realize if they damaged the vagina wall because they would expect the bleeding. The hymen is not supposed to bleed (unless the hymen is resilient or imperforate in which case surgery may be the solution).

[pixydust]

Preach it. KY is so viscous--a thin lube like Astroglide is perfect.

Love, love, love Astroglide! KY is the cheapest one that I have seen, I think that is why so many people use it.

[RR88]

Astroglide is good for yeast infection suppositories.

[Deleted03]

:shock:

I've done my research on hymens, and they are definitely not supposed to break- they are supposed to gradually wear away with time. And I shudder to speculate that should anyone follow this advice, they wouldn't even realize if they damaged the vagina wall because they would expect the bleeding. The hymen is not supposed to bleed (unless the hymen is resilient or imperforate in which case surgery may be the solution).

where did you read that?

[Anise]

where did you read that?

On the hymen

On whether hymens can be said to break

On different types of hymens and possible needs for surgery

On the possibility of tearing tissue if too forceful

[saraelise]

I think there was a Swedish study concluding the same thing about the hymen (essentially that it never goes away in one go, and wears down if it does, and that it's not supposed to bleed because it'll give way for a penis) and it made me really sad to think how "you'll bleed on your first time, that's totallyyyyyyyy normal" is this kind of sage wisdom brought down from women throughout the ages. It makes sense though, if anything bleeds, the friction is too much and you need to lube up, slow down or take a break. It just makes me sad to think of all the women who have had horrible first times because they expected it to bleed.

[snarkbillie]

I think there was a Swedish study concluding the same thing about the hymen (essentially that it never goes away in one go, and wears down if it does, and that it's not supposed to bleed because it'll give way for a penis) and it made me really sad to think how "you'll bleed on your first time, that's totallyyyyyyyy normal" is this kind of sage wisdom brought down from women throughout the ages. It makes sense though, if anything bleeds, the friction is too much and you need to lube up, slow down or take a break. It just makes me sad to think of all the women who have had horrible first times because they expected it to bleed.

I didn't know this and will pass the information on to my daughters when the time is right. See? FJ is educational!

[ilovetchotchkes]

I think there was a Swedish study concluding the same thing about the hymen (essentially that it never goes away in one go, and wears down if it does, and that it's not supposed to bleed because it'll give way for a penis) and it made me really sad to think how "you'll bleed on your first time, that's totallyyyyyyyy normal" is this kind of sage wisdom brought down from women throughout the ages. It makes sense though, if anything bleeds, the friction is too much and you need to lube up, slow down or take a break. It just makes me sad to think of all the women who have had horrible first times because they expected it to bleed.

I never bled. But my mom did apparently O_o She didn't have a horrible time the first time, she said it was awkward but not painful. :?

[tinuviel]

*Shudder* can't imagine the 0-60 in one night model. Aside from the bleeding issue, a lot of fundie girls might not even know what an orgasm is.

:-( Or they figure it out, but never experience it. I feel so sorry for those women on Christian marriage forums who post about being married for FIVE YEARS or more without ever having an orgasm. And heaven forbid they buy a vibrator...