In Vitro is a grave mortal sin

[SpeakNow]

What has the world come to?

http://news.yahoo.com/teacher-fired-rec ... ories.html

[CanadianHippie]

Babies are a blessing unless you're unmarried, teenaged, gay, lesbian, or not loved enough by God to be fertile. Some people really don't get the contradiction.

[bananacat]

Yep, the official Catholic belief is that sperm is magic and makes an egg into an actual human being the second they meet. This sadly isn't even a knew thing and IVF has been taboo for awhile. I'm glad to see the public becoming more aware of these harmful beliefs.

[FakePigtails]

In addition to what bananacat said, they have a belief that babies should only be made through sex, so even IUI is considered sinful.

[fundifugee]

For some reason this seems like a more consistent line of belief than the crazies who "let god control their fertility" but then when it starts crapping out on them, get progesterone injections, IVF, hysterosalpingography, cervical cerclage, etc.

[JMarie]

Though I don't agree with the firing, I wonder why the teacher didn't wait until the summer, so she wouldn't need to ask for time off from work.

[emmiedahl]

This is the future of American politics. No choice for women--whether you want a pregnancy and cannot have one, or have a pregnancy and do not want one.

[Nothing2CHere]

Yes, the Catholic church's official stance is against IVF, but they'll still baptize babies concieved this way. All three of my nephews who were conceived via IVF were baptized in Catholic churches.

[mockingbird]

I believe IUI is a grey area. What they don't like about it is masturbation, but I believe (according to the Catechism) if the man pulls out during sex that's a "legitimate" way to collect sperm so it can be used. It's not preferred but I'm pretty sure there's not an official position on it.

[geniebelle6901]

I personally don't believe in in vitro and procedures like it. To me it's like playing God. But that's just my personal belief, and I respect those who feel differently because I know a lot of women wouldn't have children today if not for in vitro and procedures like it.

ETA: I'm not Catholic, so I don't get the mortal sin part

[Childless]

I personally don't believe in in vitro and procedures like it. To me it's like playing God. But that's just my personal belief, and I respect those who feel differently because I know a lot of women wouldn't have children today if not for in vitro and procedures like it.

ETA: I'm not Catholic, so I don't get the mortal sin part

Under that theory, wouldn't things like heart transplants and such also be "playing God"?

[JaChelle Sugar]

When do we get to sing 'every sperm is sacred'?

[FakePigtails]

I believe IUI is a grey area. What they don't like about it is masturbation, but I believe (according to the Catechism) if the man pulls out during sex that's a "legitimate" way to collect sperm so it can be used. It's not preferred but I'm pretty sure there's not an official position on it.

What I've seen people on the Catholic Answers Forums say is that as a problem plus that the sperm getting to the egg should only happen through intercourse. Of course, the definition of "official teaching" over there can vary from actual direct teaching to "I'm interpreting this as a mortal sin to fit my personal views."

[MissSeptember]

How timely. I had my first egg retrieval today (didn't go well).

I am an IUI baby. By their logic, God didn't want me to be here. Well, here I am, suck it!

[geniebelle6901]

Under that theory, wouldn't things like heart transplants and such also be "playing God"?

Yeah, I you're right, and I didn't think about it that way. I think I have just stepped in to a nice stinking pile of shit now. I'm sorry, and meant no disrespect. Since this is a topic I really don't know anything about, I'll kindly flounce from this thread. I know I've said the same things countless times before. But this time I know I'm way out of my league here. :oops:

[feministxtian]

How do they know that the knowledge and ability to do things like IUI and in-vitro didn't come from God???? I posed that question to a Catholic friend and watched them mumble and ummm themselves stupid.

[1004srs]

But, she was working for a church who's doctrine consistantly says it is a mortal sin... WHy not find a job where you actually agree with their beliefs.

That would be like an average FJ member working for Gothard.

[FakePigtails]

But, she was working for a church who's doctrine consistantly says it is a mortal sin... WHy not find a job where you actually agree with their beliefs.

That would be like an average FJ member working for Gothard.

A lot of Catholics don't even know what their church disallows, so I wouldn't put it past some random jobseeker to not find out until it's too late.

[Coconut Flan]

Not to mention as I discovered one can't even trust the introduction to the faith classes to match the position of the US bishops or the Pope or even to the church one parish over. Some are much closer to the instructor's opinions than the church's.

I'm not saying that as a complaint but as a justification. Didn't the story say that the principal had no problem with it?

Just as example the parish I attended at one time had one interpretation of the rules of fasting while the adjacent parish had an entirely different interpretation. That one should be a much more commonly asked question and easier to get "right." I can see how from diocese to diocese or parish to parish one could get a different slant on things.

[bananacat]

Yes, the Catholic church's official stance is against IVF, but they'll still baptize babies concieved this way. All three of my nephews who were conceived via IVF were baptized in Catholic churches.

Oh, how generous of them to allow people into their club who will eventually give them money :roll: Anyway, they wouldn't have a problem with the kids because the real problem they have is the the eggs that never get implanted and just get destroyed. They claim it's no different than throwing live babies in the trash. And it's not just the Catholic church either. Dubya once spoke at a meeting of Evangelical "snowflake children" where women "adopted" unused eggs and had them implanted in themselves.

[DistantStar]

How do they know that the knowledge and ability to do things like IUI and in-vitro didn't come from God???? I posed that question to a Catholic friend and watched them mumble and ummm themselves stupid.

Exactly what I think when any religious group is anti-medicine -- be it certain procedures, or the whole shebang.

[Katiebug]

What I've seen people on the Catholic Answers Forums say is that as a problem plus that the sperm getting to the egg should only happen through intercourse. Of course, the definition of "official teaching" over there can vary from actual direct teaching to "I'm interpreting this as a mortal sin to fit my personal views."

This reminds me - I should go and laugh at the CAF wingnuts' response to this. I get such a kick out of the zealotry.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Because I'm going to hell:

(Meant to parody the '180' cartoon babies)

Edit: please ignore the dyslexic typo :doh:

[mockingbird]

This reminds me - I should go and laugh at the CAF wingnuts' response to this. I get such a kick out of the zealotry.

Oh CAF... when I first found them I thought they were mainstream Catholics and freaked out about doing everything wrong. LOL I don't even know if I'm Catholic anymore but I'm not that type.

Anyway I found this interesting - they quoted the Catechism:

"Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses' "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."167"

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=535085

So if the spouses have the right to become a father and mother ONLY through each other it's denouncing adoption too right? Since their child was conceived through someone else, they're involving an agency/etc. AFAIK Catholics are definitely ok with adoption... way to be hypocritical...

ETA: WTH. This is the website they linked to. This guy did his residency at Mayo?

http://www.popepaulvi.com/about2.html

About his "results": http://www.naprotechnology.com/ (All of his charts show a very dramatic increase in treatment while using his methods. If they were that successful you'd think they'd be more standard...)

[feministxtian]

Anyway I found this interesting - they quoted the Catechism:

"Techniques that entail the dissociation of husband and wife, by the intrusion of a person other than the couple (donation of sperm or ovum, surrogate uterus), are gravely immoral. These techniques (heterologous artificial insemination and fertilization) infringe the child's right to be born of a father and mother known to him and bound to each other by marriage. They betray the spouses' "right to become a father and a mother only through each other."167"

http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=535085

So if the spouses have the right to become a father and mother ONLY through each other it's denouncing adoption too right? Since their child was conceived through someone else, they're involving an agency/etc. AFAIK Catholics are definitely ok with adoption... way to be hypocritical...

Ok, so sperm and egg donations are seen as immoral. Well, that would make adoption immoral too. AND...if the egg and the sperm belong to the mommy and the daddy and the doctors are only HELPING them to meet, why is that immoral?

But, they'll shake your hand and give you an "attaboy" for breeding like rabbits! The last Catholic parish I belonged to (in a little town in a predominantly German Catholic area) thought that big families were awesome. There were families with 10-12-16 kids...Heck, if you had less than 6 you were looked down upon!