My "date" with a fundie-lite

[CrazyCatLady]

right, i understand the analogy.

i'm not defending fundy courtship by any means, i was just unclear that you included kissing, etc. in your definition of of trying on the shoes.

[rumput_duri]

My favourite is still his circular reasoning of "Even if the Bible doesn't say anything about it, I believe the Bible says it's wrong." I still can't make out how that makes any sense at all. How can a book say something is wrong if it doesn't say anything about it at all? That's like claiming a diet book says to not eat meat, but can't say where it says it and then says even if the book doesn't say it, the book still says it's wrong.

Maybe what he meant was that the Bible has general principles, not specific rules. For example, a diet book could advise against eating seafood, but not specifically prohibit eating shrimp.

[Deleted03]

There's a big difference between the kind of "waiting til marriage" that allows lots of kissing, touching, intimate talk, even clothes-on orgasms, and the crazy no-touching courtship model, in terms of test driving the car.

That to me is not waiting till marriage, it means having sex, being sexually active with your partner, while being stupidly stuck up on no vaginal intercourse. Sorry, but let's call sex what it is, and what you are describing is a form of sex which then makes no sense for the no vagina involve rule, which just seems arbitrary. Yes both models are different: one involves sex, the other does not.

[Rosa]

well, different people have different personal ideas of what "saving it for marriage" means - I went to college with a bunch of girls who thought blow jobs were fine but not intercourse.

The thing is that what MOST people think of when they think about "no sex til marriage" is some level of anything-but, so the crazy no-touching-no-kissing people get a pass when they say they believe in "waiting til marriage".

It's just another example of fundies taking commonly-used words ("family values", "head of the house", "feminist", "Christian", "spanking", "discipline") and using them in a totally different way, which lets them fly under the radar of people who don't actually agree with them but are using the same words.

[pixydust]

Poor man, sounds like he pretty much blindly believes what he's been taught but can't really back it up.

I didn't have sex until i was married. i did not have to try on the shoes to make sure they fit or take the car for a test drive ;) I love my husband and i would've married him whether the sex was good or bad so when people make those arguments (try on the shoe, test drive the car) I think it's kinda silly.

That said, we made out a lot and no one lost any pieces of their heart and we're both normal non-fundies ;)

dairyfree- i think it was really awesome of you to gently question him, maybe it's got him to consider the reasons he believes these things...hopefully!

That's why I prefer to have sex before I fall in love....if it doens't work out, then who cares?

Really, you lucked out. Bad sex can lead to a lot of resentment and unhappiness in a relationship. I will never go that route again! (bad first marriage)

[JaChelle Sugar]

I meant what did your whole post mean? Because it sounds like you're a 13 year old boy who has no idea of what he's talking about.

I was being sarcastic.

*looks around*

This is a snark site right?

[dairyfreelife]

right, i understand the analogy.

i'm not defending fundy courtship by any means, i was just unclear that you included kissing, etc. in your definition of of trying on the shoes.

I did in this case because he only wanted to kiss his future wife, which would mean he would have to wait until he was at least engaged before even learning if there was any chemistry at all. That to me was like seeing shoes, looking at them a bit and then buying them. I can't imagine that working well.

Maybe what he meant was that the Bible has general principles, not specific rules. For example, a diet book could advise against eating seafood, but not specifically prohibit eating shrimp.

Shrimp is seafood, so if something advised against seafood that would include shrimp and that would make sense. Now if the diet book advised against seafood and certain kinds of meat and someone said eating meat is wrong because the book says so without knowing where it says that and not being able to back it up, then we'd have the conversation I had with the guy. If you are using a book as your guide, but aren't even aware of what it says, it won't help you. But it's not just that guy, it's many people, especially fundies, who have similar logic and twist things into their own interpretation so that it fits their values and wants or it's what others have told them and have been manipulated to believe it's wrong and feel like if they don't believe that, they are sinning against God, even though they aren't. People can have strong convictions, but having them without a reason is not possible and puts that person open to criticism and even manipulation.

[rumput_duri]

Shrimp is seafood, so if something advised against seafood that would include shrimp and that would make sense. Now if the diet book advised against seafood and certain kinds of meat and someone said eating meat is wrong because the book says so without knowing where it says that and not being able to back it up, then we'd have the conversation I had with the guy. If you are using a book as your guide, but aren't even aware of what it says, it won't help you. But it's not just that guy, it's many people, especially fundies, who have similar logic and twist things into their own interpretation so that it fits their values and wants or it's what others have told them and have been manipulated to believe it's wrong and feel like if they don't believe that, they are sinning against God, even though they aren't. People can have strong convictions, but having them without a reason is not possible and puts that person open to criticism and even manipulation.

Yes, I agree. Convictions without foundations are as bad as (or worse?) than no convictions at all. Hopefully this guy will be challenged to start questioning the bases of his beliefs.

[Mela99]

I always get the feeling that fundies really aren't that picky about who they marry. It's like they have it set in their heads that the first one they come across will be the one they marry, and it's all divine intervention.

So does a courtship ever end? Why doesn't that take away pieces of your heart? And seriously, what is with the no turnaround time between meeting, courting, and marrying? No long engagement? Not even six months.

And lets be real -- the whole no premarital sex thing was man-made, so you could get a better dowry for one of your kids. No 'used goods'.

[julie paradox]

I was being sarcastic.

*looks around*

This is a snark site right?

JaChelle Sugar, I suspect this all started because you replied to a post without quoting it.

The post in question, for those of you playing along at home, was along the lines of "wonder what he'd have done if you'd grabbed his ass". Thus "sprung one and raped her", while not the most elegant suggestion, does at least make sense.

[JaChelle Sugar]

julie thanks, that makes sense. I'll quote posts to avoid confusing people.