The cost of the no vaxer's

[ilovetchotchkes]

do they care that their children will spread the disease to others miniature typhoid mary's

They love to claim that "most" cases of polio are mild. However, a LOT of people even who had mild polio get post polio syndrome, and there is NO CURE, just palative care. Yeah, i'd LOVE for my child to go through that just because "vaccines are icky".

When i point this out, they're all "you just have to educate yourself" and I think, gee, where have I heard THAT before.

[Witsec1]

I was going to say, no one can be this stupid.

But apparently that would be wrong. Where in the world are you getting all this misinformation?

Yeah, SOTDRT failed you here, abba12. You don't understand how vaccines work, or even the differences between viruses and bacteria. Antibiotics do not make a virus less contagious. They don't even really make a bacterial infection less contagious.

[BelieveinScience]

I don't care if someone chooses to vaccinate or not vaccinate their kids. The problem I've found though is that people who are against vaxing their 'sources' are all biased. I have yet to meet an anti vaxer who has found their information through non biased sources(as in websites that say their mission is to stop vaccinations etc..) or I find a lot of anti vaxers get hung up on the "vaccines come from aborted fetuses" bull shit.

[GeoBQn]

I wonder how many families are out there that didn't give their kids the MMR vaccine because they thought it would cause autism, only for the children to have autism anyway.

While there was an anti-vax contingent before the Wakefield fiasco, it's scary to see how it's spread and mutated since then. I've seen fundies on blogs and Messianic Keepers at Home warning people not to get certain vaccines because they are made of TEH DED BABIEZ! And that somehow this link to abortion is what causes vaccines to give children autism and mental disabilities.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I don't care if someone chooses to vaccinate or not vaccinate their kids. The problem I've found though is that people who are against vaxing their 'sources' are all biased. I have yet to meet an anti vaxer who has found their information through non biased sources(as in websites that say their mission is to stop vaccinations etc..) or I find a lot of anti vaxers get hung up on the "vaccines come from aborted fetuses" bull shit.

Or, THEY ALL HAVE MERCURY AND CAUSE AUTISM. Despite the fact that uhm, that's totally been disproven!!! (the autism i have no idea 'bout the mercury)

[nomi]

IIRC the only vax that contains thimerosal is the flu vax and there's a pediatric version that is thimerosal free. Or does the MMR still contain it?

I did delay and selectively vaccinate my children, partly because of the fear, but mostly because there was a family history of reactions (one very severe). I just waited until they were older and did them one at a time. I did do a combo vax to cut down on the number of jabs, but I know they didn't get several vaxes that are common now like prevnar and hib. When my son was a baby they tried to get me to give him rotavax even though it was already being blamed for causing Intussusception.

[doggie]

I would think seeing your kid in pain with just a regular virus that included vomiting/high fever would be enough for parents to get a clue.

come on now parents watch their children die and all the do is pray so No they don't get a clue.

[BelieveinScience]

Or, THEY ALL HAVE MERCURY AND CAUSE AUTISM. Despite the fact that uhm, that's totally been disproven!!! (the autism i have no idea 'bout the mercury)

Yes I love that one too! Most of these people are my friends who are antivax but get their sources from anti vax sites. I told them all I'd give them my pw for school so they could look up REAL SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL ARTICLES about vaccinations but for whatever reason they turned that down. I wonder why? :)

[GeoBQn]

IIRC the only vax that contains thimerosal is the flu vax and there's a pediatric version that is thimerosal free. Or does the MMR still contain it?

I did delay and selectively vaccinate my children, partly because of the fear, but mostly because there was a family history of reactions (one very severe). I just waited until they were older and did them one at a time. I did do a combo vax to cut down on the number of jabs, but I know they didn't get several vaxes that are common now like prevnar and hib. When my son was a baby they tried to get me to give him rotavax even though it was already being blamed for causing Intussusception.

Thimerosal was removed from the MMR a while ago. I forget what year, but autism cases only went up since that year.

[dawbs]

They love to claim that "most" cases of polio are mild. However, a LOT of people even who had mild polio get post polio syndrome, and there is NO CURE, just palative care. Yeah, i'd LOVE for my child to go through that just because "vaccines are icky".

When i point this out, they're all "you just have to educate yourself" and I think, gee, where have I heard THAT before.

UGH, YES.

My recently deceased grandfather had polio as a child. He had to re-learn how to walk when he was 4 or 5. He remembers INCREDIBLE amounts of pain and suffering.

His feet were permanently deformed. (hell, if it hadn't been the middle of a war, he'd never have been allowed in the military). He walked with a peculiar rolling gait for the rest of his life and had unexplained pains in his legs for most of his life.

Then he got all of the parkinsons symptoms and we had to beat the doctors w/ the fact that he was a polio survivor to get them to pay attention to that part of it. It contributed to why he didn't have the ability to walk the last few years of his life.

This disease, the one he survived with a 'mild' case affected his life dramatically and caused 80 years worth of PAIN for him.

[Conuly]

I wonder how many families are out there that didn't give their kids the MMR vaccine because they thought it would cause autism, only for the children to have autism anyway.

I read a collection of personal anecdotes about this, people who had one autistic child and so did not vaccinate the second child and realized either a. their second child was ALSO autistic... and with the benefit of hindsight they could see the signs long before they had seen them in the first child or b. their second child was NT... but they could see by 12 months the huge, enormous differences between the two kids.

Of course, there are a lot of people with autistic kids who are in some serious denial about their own place on the spectrum. It's not at all uncommon for adults to get diagnosed because a young relative or their own child is being diagnosed and they recognize themselves in that, but some people can't see a clue if it jumps up and down in front of them saying "THIS IS AN INHERITED TRAIT AND YOU HAVE IT TOO! YES YOU DO!" three times fast. But that's a rant for another day.

I forget what year, but autism cases only went up since that year.

Autism DIAGNOSES are increasing. However, there is no evidence that actual cases are increasing. There are many other possible explanations having to do with a. changing diagnostic standards b. the concept of the autism "spectrum" and "milder" forms of autism c. improved reporting from the states and d. all those three adding up to better awareness of autism.

[HOTW]

I just wish they would seperate the vaccines for the boosters. When the schools required my DD to get the DTap I pulle dher from school because my DH & eldest DD have had reactions to the Tetanus part of the vaccine if given too soon. She would have only had 5 years since her last Tetanus which was way too soon in my mind. I have asked the Clininc if they can do just hte pertussis and they say it doesn't work that way. So she will be getting it this year after she turns 16 and has a 10 year gap.

As a child I had all 3 diseases MMR and even had chicken pox twice. My 2 eldest have had the pox, my youngest DD had the vaccine which I am told she will need a booster since it wears off?

[GeoBQn]

As a child I had all 3 diseases MMR and even had chicken pox twice. My 2 eldest have had the pox, my youngest DD had the vaccine which I am told she will need a booster since it wears off?

My dad had the chicken pox, measles, and rubella all in first grade. He almost had to be held back a grade because he missed more than the maximum allowable number of days of school, but my grandma convinced the them that he'd be able to make up the work in time.

[ilovetchotchkes]

My dad had the chicken pox, measles, and rubella all in first grade. He almost had to be held back a grade because he missed more than the maximum allowable number of days of school, but my grandma convinced the them that he'd be able to make up the work in time.

I was gonna hold that one off from my kid because the chicken pox is annoying rather than deadly, but he's got eczema and its highly recommended as there's a link between eczema and death in kids who get it and haven't been vaccinated for the pox.

Thanks guys for reminding me. *toddles off internet to call pediatrician for 2 year visit for her kid who just turned 2 a week ago*

[lilah]

They love to claim that "most" cases of polio are mild. However, a LOT of people even who had mild polio get post polio syndrome, and there is NO CURE, just palative care. Yeah, i'd LOVE for my child to go through that just because "vaccines are icky".

Go ask my grandmother who had one leg shortened as a result of Polio and had to wear special shoes for the rest of her life. Pretty sure she'd have gotten the vaccine if it had been available.

I think at risk people are far more likely to be infected by a vaccinated person who just thinks they have a cold than a non-vaccinated person who recognises their symptoms and quarantines themselves. The diseases spread more readily through those who are vaccinated because when the illness comes on, the vaccine covers it up, meaning they don't even take anti-biotics or other medications to stop it being contagious. Someone who is not vaccinated will often seek treatment.

one of the dangers of having non-vaxed people self quarantine is that often ill people are contagious for days, even weeks before becoming symptomatic. Measles is one such disease. When there's a measle's outbreak sometimes public health officials will retrace the patient's steps to figure out where he/she was in the days when they were contagious but not symptomatic to figure out who else got exposed unknowingly.

Also interesting fact, although it's not advertised as much as birth control, vaccines were a factor in women's liberation/ability to work and have children becuase in the era of quarantine a mother would have to stay home with her kid for weeks or months at a time.

[kb2]

I have a sibling with a rare and very genetic disease, although my family has absolutely no history of anyone having this disease*. A family with an autistic child once told my parents that autism couldn't be genetic because you can't have a genetic disease without a family history. My parents were like, um, funny story.**

:doh:

*It's either a recessive trait that got passed down without making a homozygous pair until she was conceived or she got a de novo mutation on her own. But they know exactly what single protein is missing to cause the disease, so it's been connected to genetics more easily than Autism, which is probably associated with multiple genes instead of just one, and is therefore harder to parse.

**Actually, they weren't like that. They didn't say anything to refute the other family's genetic theories and just let it go, because they're a very non-confrontational people. Only later were they like, wow, were they so wrong about genetics or what? I think it would have been awesomer if they'd said something at the time, but oh well.

[Coconut Flan]

I just wish they would seperate the vaccines for the boosters. When the schools required my DD to get the DTap I pulle dher from school because my DH & eldest DD have had reactions to the Tetanus part of the vaccine if given too soon. She would have only had 5 years since her last Tetanus which was way too soon in my mind. I have asked the Clininc if they can do just hte pertussis and they say it doesn't work that way. So she will be getting it this year after she turns 16 and has a 10 year gap.

School rules and having to trot out the "shot record" at their convenience is why I signed the religious waiver for my kids. They were vaccinated but on my schedule and without my ever having to line up and show the card. Their doctor agreed with me especially since I've had some nasty vaccine reactions.

[TXDuck]

I was gonna hold that one off from my kid because the chicken pox is annoying rather than deadly, but he's got eczema and its highly recommended as there's a link between eczema and death in kids who get it and haven't been vaccinated for the pox.

Chicken pox is just "annoying" for some kids, even a majority of kids. However, you can't really predict if your kid will be the "more than annoying" case. My husband and his brother got chicken pox in their lungs. They were otherwise perfectly healthy kids. They spent a month recovering from it. I just had an annoying case, but I still have a couple of scars. Even the "mild" versions can leave scars. Of course, you have to do the best thing for your own kids. I'm just offering a data point.

[Terrie]

I have a sibling with a rare and very genetic disease, although my family has absolutely no history of anyone having this disease*. A family with an autistic child once told my parents that autism couldn't be genetic because you can't have a genetic disease without a family history. My parents were like, um, funny story.**

:doh:

*It's either a recessive trait that got passed down without making a homozygous pair until she was conceived or she got a de novo mutation on her own. But they know exactly what single protein is missing to cause the disease, so it's been connected to genetics more easily than Autism, which is probably associated with multiple genes instead of just one, and is therefore harder to parse.

**Actually, they weren't like that. They didn't say anything to refute the other family's genetic theories and just let it go, because they're a very non-confrontational people. Only later were they like, wow, were they so wrong about genetics or what? I think it would have been awesomer if they'd said something at the time, but oh well.

I had the flip side happen to me. Someone tried to tell me that the reason we're seeing so many kids with LDs and disorders like OCD is because of more vaccines. I laughed, because I have both (I'm dyslexic). So, if it's increased vaccines, what caused anxiety and OCD in my father, my father's mother, my mother's sister, my mother's sister's son, my mother's father, my mother's paternal aunt.... Gee, think it might be genetic? As for dyslexia, there's my father, my father's father, my brother, my father's brother's son.... Of course, even with obvious symptoms in all these people, the only ones with official diagnoses are the current generation, because you didn't bother with such things if people could more or less function in society.

[Terrie]

People who tell stories about horribly severe flu symptoms in recent years make me wonder if exactly the same thing is happening there, only the strongest and most severe flu strains are staying alive long enough to be passed on, putting people at even higher risk. It makes sence, the enviroment that vaccination created fosters this sort of reaction, instead of getting a current immunity from a minor flu, everyone remains vulnerable until a particularly bad bug manages to live long enough to be passed onto them.

The flu doesn't work that way. As for what you saw on a morning show, ask any practicing doctor about news coverage of health issues. I'm surprised their eyes don't fall out, they roll them so hard.

[uncreative]

The flu doesn't work that way. As for what you saw on a morning show, ask any practicing doctor about news coverage of health issues. I'm surprised their eyes don't fall out, they roll them so hard.

When our son was born my husband was convinced he was autistic. He wanted me to ask our pediatrician about it at a well-child visit. So I did. The doctor's eyes *did* almost fall out of his head. He said, "Tell your husband that stripper (Jenny McCarthy doesn't know anything."

[Austin]

When our son was born my husband was convinced he was autistic. He wanted me to ask our pediatrician about it at a well-child visit. So I did. The doctor's eyes *did* almost fall out of his head. He said, "Tell your husband that stripper (Jenny McCarthy doesn't know anything."

God only knows how much blood is on that bitch's hands.

[GeoBQn]

Is she still getting her own talk show?

[genericJname]

I have an immune compromised kiddo who is not able to get an MMR or Varicella vaccine so this stuff terrifies me.

It was ridiculous how easy it was to register for kindergarten without it. "Do I need to provide some medical documentation for why we don't have all the shots." "No, just sign right here"

:?

[sassyNoz47]

I have 4 kids 3 have gotten all the vaxes BUT the booster for Chickenpox. My youngest got some of her vaxes but started having reactions to them. Those were reported to the CDC its a long process however we also had full gentic testing and discovered she has a couple different auto-immune disorders. Therefore her immune system is totally wacked and when she got a vax it doesn't even show that she is now immune to what-ever she vaxed for. When given a live vax she could pick up the virus for real which happened in the past which triggered someone to finally do all these testings. This is why my older kids can-not get the CP booster because it is a live virus and she could pick it up from being around her brothers after they get it. So they are in school with everything BUT that final booster. I don't want them to get cp like myself and thier dad did when they become adults though :( My oldest child is 21 and she was the only one of kids to get the chicken pox. My boys 18 and 15 I plan for them to get that booster when they move out or will be away for a period of time.

I was VERY worried about my daughter not being fully vaxed but her drs assured me that people like my daughter is why its important that people who CAN safely be vaccinated are. They will help keep her healthy. Because she doesn't have a immune system she is on preventive antibotics for 6mos out of the yr. It sucks so bad. She still gets sick often we cant miss a couple days of these darn meds or shes sick again.