Take that Divorce! Or, my kids better not EVER divorce!

[Guest Anonymous]

Well how can there be no consensus about something which is expressly stated in the New Testament? How can that be? I mean there are loads of people out there who say our nations laws should be based on the Bible. Those people must have consensus on this by now, right? Shit, they get tons of votes, so there must be some consensus somewhere.

I answered that question the first time you asked it.

Also, do you think the Bible was written in English? Or maybe you could consider that it was written in other languages that had to be translated. And that when someone translates something, there isn't always an exact match for a word or phrase, and people may disagree on the interpretation of a text because they feel the translator chose the wrong one.

At this point I find your lack of a clue hilarious, but I'm nearing being done with typing out replies for you to blow past so you can post more of your petulant drivel. If you're not trolling, then you're obviously incapable of understanding anything besides the most basic of concepts, so this is a waste of my time. And yours - you could be googling up a storm right now and finding the answers to all of those theological questions that are burning holes in your (presumably functioning) brain. Well, finding some answers. Because there is still no consensus.

[Boogalou]

You call me clueless, yet you did not answer my question. Why not? I mean, you laugh at me because you think the answer is self-evident and easy. So why not just answer me if it is so obvious?

You didn't answer my question either. It seems to be a trend.

[kpmom]

Really? Does it have to be a Christian vow, or can it be any vow? Could you, in theory write your own vow, one which you might actually keep? Can it be a Muslim or a Hindu vow?

Yes, it absolutely MUST be a Christian vow. Even if you are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or Atheist, you MUST make a Christian vow here in the U.S. to get married. Even if you are married in Las Vegas by an Elvis impersonator. It always, always, ALWAYS has to be a Christian vow.

Now please make a vow to go back under your bridge and never come out again.

[Guest Anonymous]

You call me clueless, yet you did not answer my question. Why not? I mean, you laugh at me because you think the answer is self-evident and easy. So why not just answer me if it is so obvious?

Because it's not my job. Because you're not paying me. Because I don't feel like it. Because the wind blew in my window and made my fingers cold. Because I don't want to enable your laziness and helplessness. Because I still don't fucking feel like it. Because I think you're a troll. Because we already established that I don't owe you anything. Because I think I might go take a bath and have a glass of wine instead. Because I don't have magical powers of google that you don't possess.

[emmiedahl]

OMG. If only there were something that would search the internet (a series of tubes) and deliver information on any subject that one might have a question about. That would be so cool.

[luckylibrarian]

I think I love you, Lissar.

[currywurst]

For the love of cake, stop. Stop trying to convince people that already agree with you about the dangers of fundamentalist religion and go educate yourself.

Well, that was sort of my problem. My original snark comment got a lot of "regular" Christians all pissy. That is where my confusion began. I just assumed that regular Christians actual knew what a wedding vow was (after all, many had made them). Well, apparently not. That is what lead me to all my questions.

I agree fundies are dangerous, hence my questions. I think the greatest dangerous to any one person is that they do not ask questions. No one asks why anymore. It has all become totally self-evident and thus not open for debate or criticism. No one can even explain their own religion or beliefs. It is absolutely shocking to me. Call me a troll if you like. No doubt that is the easiest way to dismiss me and what I am saying.

I did not see anything illogical or "stupid" about any question I asked. Someone pointed out that I probably have autism. Well, okay then, answer that question as though I have autism. Why not? You can always just say that you do not know the answer. What's wrong with that? I have said it plenty in my life. In fact, I do not know the answer to a lot of things, hence all my questions.

[Guest Anonymous]

emmie, you have no idea how excited I am. I have always, always, wanted the internet for my own. Thank you! :P

[RR88]

Because it's not my job. Because you're not paying me. Because I don't feel like it. Because the wind blew in my window and made my fingers cold. Because I don't want to enable your laziness and helplessness. Because I still don't fucking feel like it. Because I think you're a troll. Because we already established that I don't owe you anything. Because I think I might go take a bath and have a glass of wine instead. Because I don't have magical powers of google that you don't possess.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[RR88]

If I give you a made-up answer, currywurst, will you stop?

[samurai_sarah]

:clap: :clap: :clap:

+ 1 :clap: :clap: :clap:

[currywurst]

Also, do you think the Bible was written in English? Or maybe you could consider that it was written in other languages that had to be translated. And that when someone translates something, there isn't always an exact match for a word or phrase, and people may disagree on the interpretation of a text because they feel the translator chose the wrong one.

Great...then surely no one could possibly say that all people should be ruled under such a shitty book?

[Guest Anonymous]

I think I love you, Lissar.

The feeling is entirely mutual.

(I have so many intellectual crushes on various Free Jingers. I give away pieces of my heart on here all the time. If I ever get married there will be nothing left for my spouse at all.)

[RR88]

Guess what, ladies and gents? Fundies are inconsistent and they follow a book that contradicts itself! STOP THE PRESSES!

[fluttershies]

Yeah, that is why everything I read about those laws lead me to believe there was nothing particularly religious about the vow. You just had to say that you freely took that person to be your spouse in front of witnesses.

There is no such thing as a legal requirement to make a Christian vow. It is voluntary. You do not have to make it. It all goes back to my original problem: clearly there is no "meat" behind a Christian marriage vow. Thus I must ask the purpose of making it at all.

WTF.

A Christian wanting to get married still has to take marriage vows, whether they have religious wording or not. For most couples (even not especially religious couples) making their marriage vows in a religious setting is important and makes it feel more significant. Just because they *can* get divorced doesn't mean everyone goes into it thinking that they will get divorced. You seriously don't realise that married couples take their vows seriously, even if divorce is an option? Divorce is almost always a last resort.

[currywurst]

Yes, it absolutely MUST be a Christian vow. Even if you are Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or Atheist, you MUST make a Christian vow here in the U.S. to get married. Even if you are married in Las Vegas by an Elvis impersonator. It always, always, ALWAYS has to be a Christian vow.

Now please make a vow to go back under your bridge and never come out again.

Exactly the point I have been trying to make this entire time: a vow is completely meaningless. It is a pointless exercise. It has no teeth. Why make it to begin with then?

[Guest Anonymous]

Great...then surely no one could possibly say that all people should be ruled under such a shitty book?

No one here says that. Why don't you go hang out at Free Republic and give them a schooling on that subject, since they're the ones you have an issue with. Or try the comments section at Fox News. I'm sure you can convince those folks of how wrong they are. Don't come back until you're done.

[fluttershies]

Great...then surely no one could possibly say that all people should be ruled under such a shitty book?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+don%27t+Christ ... t+anything

[RR88]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+don%27t+Christ ... t+anything

Bralette links AND this? I offer imaginary cookies in appreciation.

[samurai_sarah]

Exactly the point I have been trying to make this entire time: a vow is completely meaningless. It is a pointless exercise. It has no teeth. Why make it to begin with then?

Because it means something to the people who make it? Revolutionary idea, I know. But just because you consider something to be devoid of meaning, doesn't mean others do too.

[desertvixen]

I guess my question is how these people can then form any sort of political unity and wish to make laws based upon "Christianity."

They can't really. But the cynical beauty of it is that in our society, for the most part, when you slap the word "Christian" on something, a majority of people won't look too close and will think it's a good idea because they will tend to think it means THEIR kind of Christianity. It's like the people who advertise with the fish symbol on their signs, to get other Christians to patronize them.

Politicians count on things with the "Christian" label succeeding because if you attack it, then they can attack YOU as being "anti-Christian" which will get all sorts of people up in arms because... (see above).

Because politically, fundamentalist Christianity is a great big dogwhistle. It's code for the woman hating, slut shaming, big business pandering, capitalism fetishizing, racist, homophobic, let them eat bootstraps, good old boys club. Seriously. What rock do you live under? Politicians aren't going to come out and say that stuff, so they have to call it something else. Major bonus points if they can sound wholesome and scoop up the *actual* fundie religious vote while they're at it.

QFT.

And now I'm all out of billy goats, so I will back away from the bridge.

[currywurst]

WTF.

A Christian wanting to get married still has to take marriage vows, whether they have religious wording or not. For most couples (even not especially religious couples) making their marriage vows in a religious setting is important and makes it feel more significant. Just because they *can* get divorced doesn't mean everyone goes into it thinking that they will get divorced. You seriously don't realise that married couples take their vows seriously, even if divorce is an option? Divorce is almost always a last resort.

This is the heart at what I have been trying to get at this whole time. If divorce is an option, then can you really take those vows all that seriously? To me that would completely negate the seriousness of a wedding vow. This is why I have been asking all these questions. Something about a VOW coexisting with easy divorce just does not sit right with me. I was hoping some people posting here could maybe shed some light on this. I asked all those questions because I thought they were perfectly reasonable in order to get to the heart of the problem. The more questions I asked, and the more "answers" I got, the more I realized that I really did not understand most of this.

[fluttershies]

Bralette links AND this? I offer imaginary cookies in appreciation.

I'm tempted to introduce currywurst to the different groups within Judaism and all the various rabbinic opinions, just to see hir head explode.

[Guest Anonymous]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=why+don%27t+Christians+agree+about+anything

Totally OT time - when I read your posts, I imagine Fluttershy talking. I don't know if you're the sweetest, shyest, pony in all of FreeJingerville, but I picture you that way.

Also this was far too snarky for Fluttershy, that adorably evil bunny rabbit must be behind it. ;)

... Is it time to ignore the troll and post pony macros yet?

[fluttershies]

This is the heart at what I have been trying to get at this whole time. If divorce is an option, then can you really take those vows all that seriously? To me that would completely negate the seriousness of a wedding vow. This is why I have been asking all these questions. Something about a VOW coexisting with easy divorce just does not sit right with me. I was hoping some people posting here could maybe shed some light on this. I asked all those questions because I thought they were perfectly reasonable in order to get to the heart of the problem. The more questions I asked, and the more "answers" I got, the more I realized that I really did not understand most of this.

'Easy divorce' is a misnomer. Like I said, divorce is almost always a last resort and sometimes shit just happens. Life circumstances (money problems, problems with family, adoption/infertility issues etc) get in the way and are the most common reasons for divorce, and no one can predict those things. I don't understand why you can't grasp the idea that what doesn't make sense to you, makes perfect sense to others, or at least doesn't negate the importance of marriage vows.