Take that Divorce! Or, my kids better not EVER divorce!

[RR88]

I'm tempted to introduce currywurst to the different groups within Judaism and all the various rabbinic opinions, just to see hir head explode.

Please don't do that, fluttershies. I don't feel like being asked why some Jewish women cover their hair and some don't. :naughty:

[meda]

This is the heart at what I have been trying to get at this whole time. If divorce is an option, then can you really take those vows all that seriously? To me that would completely negate the seriousness of a wedding vow. This is why I have been asking all these questions. Something about a VOW coexisting with easy divorce just does not sit right with me. I was hoping some people posting here could maybe shed some light on this. I asked all those questions because I thought they were perfectly reasonable in order to get to the heart of the problem. The more questions I asked, and the more "answers" I got, the more I realized that I really did not understand most of this.

So are you suggesting that we outlaw divorce or outlaw marriage? Because in your black and white world, I guess it most be one or the other...because the most important thing in the whole universe is to clear away all of the world's inconsistencies for you.

[desertvixen]

This is the heart at what I have been trying to get at this whole time. If divorce is an option, then can you really take those vows all that seriously? To me that would completely negate the seriousness of a wedding vow. This is why I have been asking all these questions. Something about a VOW coexisting with easy divorce just does not sit right with me.

Okay, now you are really being trolly.

People, in general, when they get married (including myself) don't intend to divorce. They don't plan to just live together for a few years and then pay a lawyer to help them divide everything they have in equal portions and assign child custody and support. They intend to be married forever.

Then, real life happens. Spouses get deployed, decide they're tired of their life as it is, and cheat. People start beating their spouses. People who didn't have enough discussions beforehand OR who didn't take their partner seriously find out that, no shit, they really do have issues they cannot come to an agreement.

Most of us are not into being miserable for the rest of our lives, and our civil court system does not require people to stay married if one of them does not want to.

And, from someone who has been there, divorce is NOT easy.

[currywurst]

Because it means something to the people who make it? Revolutionary idea, I know. But just because you consider something to be devoid of meaning, doesn't mean others do too.

That is why I have to give fundie lady props for sincerity. She has honestly assigned meaning to her marriage vows. We all disagree with that meaning, but at least she had the fortitude to actually do it. She has totally come out there a baldly said that divorce is not okay once you have made those vows. Why, she even cites the bible and everything! Sure she is nuts, but at least she has something tangible to back up her argument. She has gone straight to the source, and has taken it at face value. We all laughed at her, but I still think she makes an excellent point. She says that if you claim to follow this book, well then you should actually follow it.

I naively thought that being a Christian meant you followed the Bible. I now stand corrected. Being a Christian does not mean that at all, apparently. Thus a Christian wedding vow does not attach to any tangible dogma. I assumed it did. I really did not know until today that it did not. I learned today that Christianity is only what the individual believer wants it to be.

[RR88]

This is the heart at what I have been trying to get at this whole time. If divorce is an option, then can you really take those vows all that seriously? To me that would completely negate the seriousness of a wedding vow. This is why I have been asking all these questions. Something about a VOW coexisting with easy divorce just does not sit right with me. I was hoping some people posting here could maybe shed some light on this. I asked all those questions because I thought they were perfectly reasonable in order to get to the heart of the problem. The more questions I asked, and the more "answers" I got, the more I realized that I really did not understand most of this.

Why do some people like the color blue, while others like the color red or purple? Why do some people like eating steak, while others prefer vegetarian food? Why are some people individualists and others collectivists? Why do some Muslims wear hijab, while others do not? Why am I a deadhead, while my best friend likes punk rock instead? WHY ARE PEOPLE DIFFERENT? DAMN IT, I DEMAND AN ANSWER TO MY PROFOUNDLY DEEP QUESTIONS!

[currywurst]

Life circumstances (money problems, problems with family, adoption/infertility issues etc) get in the way and are the most common reasons for divorce, and no one can predict those things.

Yeah, but isn't that the entire point of a vow then? No one can predict those things, thus you make a vow to stay with that person no matter what, until death.

[fluttershies]

Okay, now you are really being trolly.

People, in general, when they get married (including myself) don't intend to divorce. They don't plan to just live together for a few years and then pay a lawyer to help them divide everything they have in equal portions and assign child custody and support. They intend to be married forever.

Then, real life happens. Spouses get deployed, decide they're tired of their life as it is, and cheat. People start beating their spouses. People who didn't have enough discussions beforehand OR who didn't take their partner seriously find out that, no shit, they really do have issues they cannot come to an agreement.

Most of us are not into being miserable for the rest of our lives, and our civil court system does not require people to stay married if one of them does not want to.

And, from someone who has been there, divorce is NOT easy.

Amen. A friend of mine has just been through an extremely painful divorce - her ex came out as gay and left her, which is definitely not something she could have predicted when they married. Britney Spearses of the world aside, divorce is incredibly hard and no one does it lightly. Acting like people just waltz into divorce is like suggesting women have recreational abortions.

[currywurst]

Then, real life happens. Spouses get deployed, decide they're tired of their life as it is, and cheat. People start beating their spouses. People who didn't have enough discussions beforehand OR who didn't take their partner seriously find out that, no shit, they really do have issues they cannot come to an agreement.

Exactly. Real life happens. Shit happens. But isn't that why you made a vow? You make the vow because otherwise real life shit would split you up.

[Guest Anonymous]

That is why I have to give fundie lady props for sincerity. She has honestly assigned meaning to her marriage vows. We all disagree with that meaning, but at least she had the fortitude to actually do it. She has totally come out there a baldly said that divorce is not okay once you have made those vows. Why, she even cites the bible and everything! Sure she is nuts, but at least she has something tangible to back up her argument. She has gone straight to the source, and has taken it at face value. We all laughed at her, but I still think she makes an excellent point. She says that if you claim to follow this book, well then you should actually follow it.

I naively thought that being a Christian meant you followed the Bible. I now stand corrected. Being a Christian does not mean that at all, apparently. Thus a Christian wedding vow does not attach to any tangible dogma. I assumed it did. I really did not know until today that it did not. I learned today that Christianity is only what the individual believer wants it to be.

I am amending my initial diagnosis of garden variety troll, to fundie troll.

[fluttershies]

Totally OT time - when I read your posts, I imagine Fluttershy talking. I don't know if you're the sweetest, shyest, pony in all of FreeJingerville, but I picture you that way.

Also this was far too snarky for Fluttershy, that adorably evil bunny rabbit must be behind it. ;)

... Is it time to ignore the troll and post pony macros yet?

:lol:

I think I'm a bit meeker and milder than some FJers but irl I'm more like a slightly lazier Rainbow Dash. Gotta keep my identity secret :p

Speaking of Lauren Faust, is anyone else enjoying DC Super Best Friends Forever? I love the diversity in body shapes - a chubby Poison Ivy! A pretty stocky and strong-looking Supergirl! I'm just a little disappointed that Batgirl is like a human Pinkie Pie and not the nerd Barbara Gordon really is. But then, very few versions of classic Batgirl meet my standards (and I do not talk about the rebooted ex-Oracle Batgirl because the ableism makes me want to cry).

[meda]

I am amending my initial diagnosis of garden variety troll, to fundie troll.

I'm convinced. However, atheist fundie or fundie religious?

[currywurst]

That is why I have to give fundie lady props for sincerity. She has honestly assigned meaning to her marriage vows. We all disagree with that meaning, but at least she had the fortitude to actually do it. She has totally come out there a baldly said that divorce is not okay once you have made those vows. Why, she even cites the bible and everything! Sure she is nuts, but at least she has something tangible to back up her argument. She has gone straight to the source, and has taken it at face value. We all laughed at her, but I still think she makes an excellent point. She says that if you claim to follow this book, well then you should actually follow it.

I naively thought that being a Christian meant you followed the Bible. I now stand corrected. Being a Christian does not mean that at all, apparently. Thus a Christian wedding vow does not attach to any tangible dogma. I assumed it did. I really did not know until today that it did not. I learned today that Christianity is only what the individual believer wants it to be.

I am amending my initial diagnosis of garden variety troll, to fundie troll.

As I said, I am an atheist. I am also a complete and total sinner. I thought I made a rather solid point though. Instead of just calling me names (which I have never done to any of you), why not go through my assertion point by point and make an argument as to why I am wrong?

[desertvixen]

I naively thought that being a Christian meant you followed the Bible. I now stand corrected. Being a Christian does not mean that at all, apparently. Thus a Christian wedding vow does not attach to any tangible dogma. I assumed it did. I really did not know until today that it did not. I learned today that Christianity is only what the individual believer wants it to be.

And we learned that you are a troll. (Lissar is probably right about the fundie troll. - I vote for fundie posing as atheist, because why would an atheist identify themselves as a SINNER? That word has a definite context in our society.)

Exactly. Real life happens. Shit happens. But isn't that why you made a vow? You make the vow because otherwise real life shit would split you up.

I did, yes. My husband decided to break that vow and I'm not an idiot enough to decide that because HE changed his mind, that I should have to be alone for the rest of my life being a single parent, no matter what my church says about it.

Of course, I'm also obviously not a very good Christian because I'm all for premarital sex and I don't care who gets married as long as they're consenting adults who are made happy by the decision.

[StarrieEyedKat]

[fluttershies]

And we learned that you are a troll. (Lissar is probably right about the fundie troll. - I vote for fundie posing as atheist, because why would an atheist identify themselves as a SINNER? That word has a definite context in our society.)

I did, yes. My husband decided to break that vow and I'm not an idiot enough to decide that because HE changed his mind, that I should have to be alone for the rest of my life being a single parent, no matter what my church says about it.

Of course, I'm also obviously not a very good Christian because I'm all for premarital sex and I don't care who gets married as long as they're consenting adults who are made happy by the decision.

I agree. Surely atheists don't believe in sin? Sin suggests something that is always wrong, whereas most atheists would talk about relativism.

[Witsec7]

I live in the US, my current husband and I made no vows. We signed a witnessed document that was legal in our state. We're divorcing. Shit happened. It would have happened with or without a marriage certificate, with or without audible promises.

I wish this troll would stop busting peoples chops and questioning their motivations when the use a widely accepted legal vehicle to enter into a contract, I referring to marriage vows here.

Why does she care so much about this subject unless she is a fundy pretending to be an atheist? As an atheist, I do not believe in sin.

[currywurst]

I did, yes. My husband decided to break that vow and I'm not an idiot enough to decide that because HE changed his mind, that I should have to be alone for the rest of my life being a single parent, no matter what my church says about it.

Of course, I'm also obviously not a very good Christian because I'm all for premarital sex and I don't care who gets married as long as they're consenting adults who are made happy by the decision.

Well, nothing in your vows said that they were contingent upon your husband keeping his vows. Him breaking his vows should not have affected you keeping your vows.

If you do not care what the church says, and you do things against Christian belief, then I would not really say you are a "Christian."

BTW, I do not give a rat's ass who breaks what vows or who is a Christian and why, and am merely pointing out how asinine religion is. I cannot believe any person with half a brain chooses to follow it, much less make "vows" that they obviously do not give two shits about.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm convinced. However, atheist fundie or fundie religious?

Fundie religious. Combine the "teenage sluts shouldn't get to keep their babies" with the admiration that's coming through when currywurst talks about how doggone logical and consistent those fundie ladies who stay married to abusive husbands are and it all comes toether. Not to mention their concern over what they considered to be a sacrilegious use of the Bible.

As I said, I am an atheist. I am also a complete and total sinner. I thought I made a rather solid point though. Instead of just calling me names (which I have never done to any of you), why not go through my assertion point by point and make an argument as to why I am wrong?

It's the internet. I can say I'm Marie of Romania, that doesn't make it the truth. Your points are about as solid as watery jello. It's pretty clear that talking to you on a serious level is a waste of time because you either don't read it or can't understand it, and I'm bored of batting you around like a cat toy. Also, I think you're a fundie troll.

(Calling themselves a sinner in this post is another red fundie flag for me.)

[meda]

As I said, I am an atheist. I am also a complete and total sinner. I thought I made a rather solid point though. Instead of just calling me names (which I have never done to any of you), why not go through my assertion point by point and make an argument as to why I am wrong?

How can you be an atheist and believe you are a sinner? Sin is a term of art, usually a term defined by people who embrace a religoious worldview that includes a concept of sin. You have a little cognitive dissonance going on there. Also, where in the bible does it say that a marriage vow is unbreakable? I don't believe it does. You are not making an argument, your are repeating, page after page, the assertion that all Christians must agree on every single, nit picky point of dogma or they are all hypocrites. You're making sweeping assertions, not an argument.

[currywurst]

I agree. Surely atheists don't believe in sin? Sin suggests something that is always wrong, whereas most atheists would talk about relativism.

Trust me, I am an atheist and a sinner. I have eaten pussy and everything.

[kpmom]

Okey dokey, it may be time for the nail polish maneuver.

[currywurst]

How can you be an atheist and believe you are a sinner?

I do not believe I am a sinner. I do not believe that anyone is a sinner. To believe that you would have to believe in religion and God, two things I loathe. I wish there was a "I meant that sardonically" icon. ;)

I was making a self-deprecating remark since I was accused of being a fundie. (shudders)

[Loveday]

I am amending my initial diagnosis of garden variety troll, to fundie troll.

:clap: This thread's gone too fast most of today for my feeble brain to keep up and post anything, but I've suspected this for several pages now. :think:

My favourite popcorn gif! :dance:

[currywurst]

Okey dokey, it may be time for the nail polish maneuver.

That gave me quite the chuckle.

[Witsec7]

Okey dokey, it may be time for the nail polish maneuver.

I killed last weeks pedi gardening and today I realized I need to trim the fingernails down to gardening length.