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Take that Divorce! Or, my kids better not EVER divorce!


princessjo1988

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I don't know if this has been discussed before, but I was astonished and appalled at this 'letter'.

raisinghomemakers.com/2012/a-letter-to-my-children-about-marriage/

In my own (albeit limited) experience of marriage, it is nothing like that. And her poor kids, they will never get support if they want to leave abusive spouses, will they?

So much snark potential!

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Divorce is the BEST thing that happened to my former marriage. Period.

It happened before my offspring was really old enough to remember, and they still have hangups about it, but those hangups are absofrickinlutly better than what would have happened if we had stayed.

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Check 1

Check 2

Check 3

Oh wait, you're husband came back with PTSD after multiple deployments and had an affair which he has continued and yeah...he asked for a divorce in spite of your submission and all that shit.

Yeah I think I'm okay despite her BS

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Big surprise that it was written by Kelly of GC. She sure can bring out teh stoopid when she decides to.

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Ah, good to know staying with an abusive spouse who cheats and blames everything on you is much better for the children than packing up, leaving, and making a much more stable, loving environment for them. Thank you Kelly, from Raising homemakers for clearing that up. I was under the impression that children did best in a safe, loving environment even if it just one parent and that God wanted us to leave those who threaten to kill us/our children if we don't do things exactly as expected...

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This makes my blood boil:

Chris Addy April 13, 2012

That was powerful but you see, it doesn’t work one way. Both partners must be committed to making a marriage work and all other people and matters would be treated as aliens by both partners. When one partner however has a hidden agenda and he/she thinks it’s been achieved and so must break the partner’s back and find his/her way, then the “marriage†is no longer a single component. My dear, somebody’s life could even be at stake because a selfish partner is done with an agenda. Nobody enters into marriage with the intention of breaking up, nobody doesn’t want to stay happy; sometimes, they opt out just to save their lives because that is the only thing they cannot regain if they lost it.

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Betty D. April 17, 2012

I respectfully disagree. What good is it to “save their lives†if it breaks a vow to God? Our lives are not to be valued above our vows to God. Without Him, our lives mean nothing. “No greater love hath a man than that he lays down his life….†(paraphrased) Even if you have to make the ultimate sacrifice, I believe the heavenly rewards will far supercede it. And I believe the life given is not in vain, for God will use it for his beautiful plan. As Jim Elliott said, “He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep for that which he cannot lose.â€

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I mean seriously. What the flying fuck?! In the case of domestic abuse, women are the main victims, right? And in those cases, is she saying that a woman should let a man beat her to death because it's all in "God's beautiful plan"?! What fucking world is the woman on?

/rant

Time for an alcoholic beverage while I shake my head at the sheer stupidity of people.

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So... beating your wife and throwing battery acid on her was "stupid" and "needs forgiveness"? Yeah... okay. I'll forgive him right after he gets locked up in prison and has a bald man named Bubba pick him for his new girlfriend.

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Yeah, I don't understand why some people think divorce is the worst thing EVAR. I'd say that having an abusive spouse is worse than getting a divorce. And "staying together for the kids" doesn't make sense when the spouse is abusing the kids too. Better to have no dad around than to have one who hurts you daily, IMO.

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Had a kid, never got married because you were able to see all the warning signs. Good girl!

Don't get married for 'god'. Get married because it's something YOU want to do. Don't stay married for 'god', stay married because its what YOU want to do. Sheezez.

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Well, these ARE the idiots who talk about a wife needing to bear her husband's abuses of her while also saying a man wouldn't do that. Can't expect anything other than they'd say a divorce is wrong.

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I think this woman is nuts, but she is right about something: if you are devout Christian, and you make a vow to God, then you cannot break that vow. Thems the rules. You don't like it, you don't have to subscribe to Christianity (for example, I don't like it, thus I am not a Christian).

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Betty D. April 17, 2012

I respectfully disagree. What good is it to “save their lives†if it breaks a vow to God? Our lives are not to be valued above our vows to God. Without Him, our lives mean nothing. “No greater love hath a man than that he lays down his life….†(paraphrased) Even if you have to make the ultimate sacrifice, I believe the heavenly rewards will far supercede it. And I believe the life given is not in vain, for God will use it for his beautiful plan. As Jim Elliott said, “He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep for that which he cannot lose.â€

My father abused my mother for years before she left him. I'm glad she didn't listen to someone like Betty. She would have surely made the "ultimate sacrifice" by now.

Evil bitch.

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I think this woman is nuts, but she is right about something: if you are devout Christian, and you make a vow to God, then you cannot break that vow. Thems the rules. You don't like it, you don't have to subscribe to Christianity (for example, I don't like it, thus I am not a Christian).

I disagree. I don't think god would want you to stay in an abusive marriage that threatens your life and makes you miserable. The god I learned about was kind, compassionate, loving, and fair. He/She only wants what's best for us and if that is leaving a marriage, then so be it. And especially if the man (or woman) is abusing the children. Children are precious in god's eye (at least according to the bible). Someone who wants children to stay in an abusive environment does not think children are precious, so I highly doubt god would condone that.

I learned (in a Christian church) that we are saved through god's grace, not through following this or that rule. We do things every day that need god's forgiveness. Why would divorce be any different? The important thing is that you learn from your mistakes and try not to repeat them. I doubt god is going to cast you into hell because you made a mistake. Otherwise, we'd all be there.

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I think this woman is nuts, but she is right about something: if you are devout Christian, and you make a vow to God, then you cannot break that vow. Thems the rules. You don't like it, you don't have to subscribe to Christianity (for example, I don't like it, thus I am not a Christian).

Sure you can.

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currywurst wrote:

I think this woman is nuts, but she is right about something: if you are devout Christian, and you make a vow to God, then you cannot break that vow. Thems the rules. You don't like it, you don't have to subscribe to Christianity (for example, I don't like it, thus I am not a Christian).

Sure you can.

Okay, then if you can break a vow whenever you want, there is no point to having made one in the first place. The whole concept is thus totally meaningless. Don't get me wrong, I think living one's life based up something said to an invisible sky wizard is insane, but either something has a meaning or it doesn't.

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Okay, then if you can break a vow whenever you want, there is no point to having made one in the first place. The whole concept is thus totally meaningless. Don't get me wrong, I think living one's life based up something said to an invisible sky wizard is insane, but either something has a meaning or it doesn't.

It's not breaking the vow to back out in abusive situations because part of the other person's vow, their implicit understanding of what the marriage is, is to treat the other person decently. When the one person engages in violent or emotionally manipulative behavior they're breaking their part of the vows first.

ETA: And not everyone who gets married even considers the vows to God. Some weddings are completely secular, some (gasp!) may include vows to a deity other than the Christian god.

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I think this woman is nuts, but she is right about something: if you are devout Christian, and you make a vow to God, then you cannot break that vow. Thems the rules. You don't like it, you don't have to subscribe to Christianity (for example, I don't like it, thus I am not a Christian).

But do traditional wedding vows generally include a vow to God? Or just to each other? I just looked up several versions of basic wedding vows, Baptist, Catholic, and Episcopalian, and while some say 'in the name of God,' or mention God as one of the witnesses, I didn't see anything that says or even just implies 'I vow to God....' All I see is a vow between the bride and the groom. Which is automatically broken by the offending party once abuse enters the picture, in my opinion.

But whatever. I don't care what these people think, their interpretation of God's will is just wrong. He would not want someone staying in an abusive marriage, plain and simple. The mindset that came up with this crap is truly sinister and twisted.

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I think this woman is nuts, but she is right about something: if you are devout Christian, and you make a vow to God, then you cannot break that vow. Thems the rules. You don't like it, you don't have to subscribe to Christianity (for example, I don't like it, thus I am not a Christian).

BZZZT no.

I personally consider abuse a case where the partner has broken the vow FIRST. If your vows include "to love and protect" like a lot of Christian marriages do, your spouse has already broken the vow.

(I have no issues with divorce but if you're considering it a vow to G-d as well to the other person. This is how I see it)

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Meh, looks like we got a little attention-whore troll again. The Bible is full of divorce, and not just for cases of abuse. Still, any god that would want someone to stay in an abusive relationship and also keep her kids around the abuser is not any god that is worthy of worship, IMO.

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Okay, what about in situations where Christian couples get a divorce even though no vow was broken (i.e. no abuse, dishonor, etc). Say they could not agree on whether to move to another state or not. They had a Christian ceremony and made vows to each other in the presence of God. Now they are breaking the "til death do us part" vow. Is this okay? Can the vow be broken for ANY reason? I am not being sarcastic. I was brought up atheist and so I guess I do not understand what a vow is. I always thought it was something even deeper than a promise. A marriage vow, for example, was not just something you made to your spouse, but also to God in front of all you friends and family BECAUSE it was such a serious thing. It attaches not just to your mortal life, but to your immortal life as well. That is why a marriage vow is so sacred.

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Meh, looks like we got a little attention-whore troll again. The Bible is full of divorce, and not just for cases of abuse. Still, any god that would want someone to stay in an abusive relationship and also keep her kids around the abuser is not any god that is worthy of worship, IMO.

I want to make something clear: I am an atheist and I loathe religion. One of the things I loathe about modern Christianity is the "salad bar" approach that basically all modern Christians have. They take this, leave that....it all boils down to what is convenient to them. I bring up the "vow" thing because it is what I consider one of the problems with salad bar Christianity. A vow means something when people want it to - i.e. on the actual wedding day, but then later, when the vow is no longer convenient, there is always a reason that the vow no longer "counts." Let's face it, most people get divorced because they simply do not like each other anymore (to me, that is perfectly fine). My issue is that most of those people got married in a church and took vows with each other as God as their witness. Not one part of those vows said "til we just don't like each other anymore." Well, I am just calling these people out on their hypocrisy.

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Okay, what about in situations where Christian couples get a divorce even though no vow was broken (i.e. no abuse, dishonor, etc). Say they could not agree on whether to move to another state or not. They had a Christian ceremony and made vows to each other in the presence of God. Now they are breaking the "til death do us part" vow. Is this okay? Can the vow be broken for ANY reason? I am not being sarcastic. I was brought up atheist and so I guess I do not understand what a vow is. I always thought it was something even deeper than a promise. A marriage vow, for example, was not just something you made to your spouse, but also to God in front of all you friends and family BECAUSE it was such a serious thing. It attaches not just to your mortal life, but to your immortal life as well. That is why a marriage vow is so sacred.

In my personal opinion, no. But if that's the sort of reason a couple is giving for divorcing, I would seriously contend that there are far deeper issues going on than whether to move to another state, or whatever other seemingly trivial reason they're giving.

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I want to make something clear: I am an atheist and I loathe religion. One of the things I loathe about modern Christianity is the "salad bar" approach that basically all modern Christians have. They take this, leave that....it all boils down to what is convenient to them. I bring up the "vow" thing because it is what I consider one of the problems with salad bar Christianity. A vow means something when people want it to - i.e. on the actual wedding day, but then later, when the vow is no longer convenient, there is always a reason that the vow no longer "counts." Let's face it, most people get divorced because they simply do not like each other anymore (to me, that is perfectly fine). My issue is that most of those people got married in a church and took vows with each other as God as their witness. Not one part of those vows said "til we just don't like each other anymore." Well, I am just calling these people out on their hypocrisy.

I get where you're coming from. I hate it when my kids breaks the vows they made to Santa Clause to be good so they'll get present on Christmas. I mean, they promised him right in the middle of the mall and everything,but then, when it's convenient to throw a fit, that all goes out the window. :roll:

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Okay, what about in situations where Christian couples get a divorce even though no vow was broken (i.e. no abuse, dishonor, etc). Say they could not agree on whether to move to another state or not. They had a Christian ceremony and made vows to each other in the presence of God. Now they are breaking the "til death do us part" vow. Is this okay? Can the vow be broken for ANY reason? I am not being sarcastic. I was brought up atheist and so I guess I do not understand what a vow is. I always thought it was something even deeper than a promise. A marriage vow, for example, was not just something you made to your spouse, but also to God in front of all you friends and family BECAUSE it was such a serious thing. It attaches not just to your mortal life, but to your immortal life as well. That is why a marriage vow is so sacred.

Its their business! seriously, i have no issue if anyone, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist or whatever decides to dissolve their marriage!

I was just saying in the context of "vows" and abuse then the partner who abused the other, broke the vow first.

Sometimes when you see marriages break up from the outside you have no clue of what went on- there may have been abuse going on- not all abuse is physical.

Its not that its not convenient. An example of a friend of mine- she got married in the Catholic church, realized in short order the marriage was a huge HUGE mistake. But she by gum stuck with it. Until her husband started basically emotionally neglecting her and lying to her. Not about huge things like an affair but about money. He'd claim that he paid the mortgage when he didn't. He'd go off and spend thousands of dollars a month on fast food, while their "for emergency only" credit cards that she was having to use more and more for groceries were going into collections. She left at one point, and said "you've got 2 months to pull your shit together. You don't have to fix everything, but I need to see improvement" as he refused to go to counseling. He didn't get his shit together. She divorced him.

Are you saying she should have stayed in the marriage because he wasn't beating her?

Edited for riffles.

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I get where you're coming from. I hate it when my kids breaks the vows they made to Santa Clause to be good so they'll get present on Christmas. I mean, they promised him right in the middle of the mall and everything,but then, when it's convenient to throw a fit, that all goes out the window.

Yeah, that's about the level of maturity most modern Christians have regarding their relationship with their god.

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