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City Folks Drool, Country Folks Rule


GolightlyGrrl

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I think the suburbs probably work differently in the US? I've lived in the suburbs of cities in the UK and have never needed a car.

The original suburbs in the US are like that too, you can find them referred to as railway suburbs or trolley suburbs and the like sometimes. I'd happily live there.

You can see people trying to get back to that idea with New Urbanism, too. The idea being, you have a little suburb of houses and a supermarket, a library, and then there's a high speed transit connection to the bigger city.

The suburbs that are the hardest to get around in without a car are more modern US suburbs, where there are no grid streets and all of the uses (housing, shopping) are SEGREGATED into pods, so that even in your little suburb, if you want to go to the market you HAVE to drive, and the streets are mostly cul-de-sacs off of a few curvy "collector streets." In those places, you need to drive, or if you insist on not, you need some serious confidence to bike the streets and some endurance to walk. A kid would be completely dependent on parents for transit there. In short, MY personal nightmare, but that's why I don't look for housing there :)

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The original suburbs in the US are like that too, you can find them referred to as railway suburbs or trolley suburbs and the like sometimes. I'd happily live there.

You can see people trying to get back to that idea with New Urbanism, too. The idea being, you have a little suburb of houses and a supermarket, a library, and then there's a high speed transit connection to the bigger city.

The suburbs that are the hardest to get around in without a car are more modern US suburbs, where there are no grid streets and all of the uses (housing, shopping) are SEGREGATED into pods, so that even in your little suburb, if you want to go to the market you HAVE to drive, and the streets are mostly cul-de-sacs off of a few curvy "collector streets." In those places, you need to drive, or if you insist on not, you need some serious confidence to bike the streets and some endurance to walk. A kid would be completely dependent on parents for transit there. In short, MY personal nightmare, but that's why I don't look for housing there :)

New Urbanism sounds a lot like where I live - it's pretty much a giant suburb with a supermarket, a library, a few other shops, churches etc. The transit is a bus service to the nearest big town every 20 minutes, every hour on Sundays and public holidays.

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I live in this type of suburb at the moment, and you're right, it is the worst of all worlds. If I want to walk to the grocery store (I don't drive) I plan for about an hour and a half (including very minimal shopping time). We're lucky to even have sidewalks that enable me to walk, because a lot of suburbs built at the same time don't. I have lived in well-planned, pedestrian friendly cities and gone months without even considering using a bus (I don't drive); I love walking, but here I very seldom do so. People talk about being isolated in the country, but if you live in a badly planned suburb you've still got a damned long way to go to get anywhere. It's really irritating. :s

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I don't mind suburbs, having grown up exclusively in them, but I would be absolutely miserable living in the country. I spend part of my time in Wichita, and that is the absolute smallest area I would ever willingly live in without having at least a larger city within a half hour drive. Even visiting smaller places like Hutchinson makes me claustrophobic. :?

added a word so things made more sense.

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I have found that, overall, city life is much more accepting of differences (and me) that country or suburbia. Personally, I'd choose a city over the country, and the country over the suburbs. I like cities because they are less expensive, and there are more people. And there are different people and different opinions and different churches and things to do.

The linked blog made me very irritated. It struck me as so small minded, judgemental, and honestly, rude. Did someone hold a gun to her head and force her to go to the mall? Malls are overpriced for the quality, if she needed shoes, she could have gone to a department store and had (what I would expect) a more plesent experience. if they were looking for entertainment, why not do something outdoors? Play some games or badminton or something. The whole piece was so self righteous and superficial. Really? Unable to read a map? Averting eyes at Victorias secret? (and the commenter who claims they have decent bras... Um no. They have mass produced crap that falls apart after the first washing) And the "American idol" comment, um ok, whatever. Malls have been around for a lot longer than AI

I

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The original suburbs in the US are like that too, you can find them referred to as railway suburbs or trolley suburbs and the like sometimes. I'd happily live there.

You can see people trying to get back to that idea with New Urbanism, too. The idea being, you have a little suburb of houses and a supermarket, a library, and then there's a high speed transit connection to the bigger city.

The suburbs that are the hardest to get around in without a car are more modern US suburbs, where there are no grid streets and all of the uses (housing, shopping) are SEGREGATED into pods, so that even in your little suburb, if you want to go to the market you HAVE to drive, and the streets are mostly cul-de-sacs off of a few curvy "collector streets." In those places, you need to drive, or if you insist on not, you need some serious confidence to bike the streets and some endurance to walk. A kid would be completely dependent on parents for transit there. In short, MY personal nightmare, but that's why I don't look for housing there :)

Yes, I grew up in the old fashioned sort of suburb (which now are often just part of the city, since they wern't far from the city itself to begin and were just absorbed.) Part of my old neighborhood was on the trolley line (which doesn't exist anymore) and part was built for car commuters (1930's and 1940's). My parents' house was originally about 1300 sf, but they have added on. It is still easy to get a bus or ride a bike to where you need to go if it's downtown. And they are trying to improve public transit in the area, but it's the attitude of wanting to have your own source of transportation. I know I can be guilty of that, and my job requires that I have a car to get around.

I live in a rural suburb (but an old one from the 1940's and 1950's) and it's not like a lot of the modern suburbs, in fact I think many of the houses might have been vacation homes because of the location, and my house was probably originally about 900 sf. It is now 1200, which is more than I need as one person, but I fell in love with the house and lot. (it is a neighborhood, but all the lots are at least one acre and zoned residential ag.) Because it is in a rural area, you need a car to get around. I can ride into town on my bike if I want, but for the most part it has to be car.

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I think it really comes down to a matter of what individuals can live with, and what they can't live without. I love a museum, I love a park, I love an urban cemetery, all of which are generally free and easily accessible when you're in a city. But they can be places I visit a few times a year to get what I personally need for the health of my soul. OTOH, it's far, far healthier for me as a person not to have to deal with traffic and noise and the inescapable proximity of other people. That's why the country works for me; but I know it wouldn't work. long-term, for everyone.

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Off topic, but: £4 Indian buffet... the one in Angel? I was there last week for a friend's birthday. :shock: :D

I was there a couple of weeks ago! The one with the beauty queens who ate there on the wall? Small world.

'm originally from a small town in rural Scotland, and I came away with PTSD and a distinct lack of braincells from the use of certain substances. You would NOT catch me going back.

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I love how all of us are able to discuss the good and bad of city, country and suburban living without turning it into a huge bitchfest. Congrats, my lovely Jingerites.

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I think it really comes down to a matter of what individuals can live with, and what they can't live without. I love a museum, I love a park, I love an urban cemetery, all of which are generally free and easily accessible when you're in a city. But they can be places I visit a few times a year to get what I personally need for the health of my soul. OTOH, it's far, far healthier for me as a person not to have to deal with traffic and noise and the inescapable proximity of other people. That's why the country works for me; but I know it wouldn't work. long-term, for everyone.

Someone else has mentioned privacy and proximity to other people in the city, but tbh I really don't get it. I don't live in a large city, but I've never felt like I didn't have privacy. I've felt that way in the country, but we may have different ideas of privacy.

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The suburbs that are the hardest to get around in without a car are more modern US suburbs, where there are no grid streets and all of the uses (housing, shopping) are SEGREGATED into pods, so that even in your little suburb, if you want to go to the market you HAVE to drive, and the streets are mostly cul-de-sacs off of a few curvy "collector streets." In those places, you need to drive, or if you insist on not, you need some serious confidence to bike the streets and some endurance to walk. A kid would be completely dependent on parents for transit there. In short, MY personal nightmare, but that's why I don't look for housing there :)
I grew up in suburbs like that, and hated it. My entire adolescence was spent in dreaming of the day I'd GTFO forever. I lived in San Francisco for a while, in a noisy, dirty neighborhood with lots of crime, and despite all the hassles I loved it. I could catch a bus or BART to just about anywhere else in the city a block from my apartment.

Then, for a decade, I lived in a small city (pop. 60,000 when I first arrived) with a state college. I was car-dependent again, because I didn't choose my neighborhood very well, but it was okay. It was quite a mix though--we had the college crowd, but also a fair share of "out in the county" people who were a lot like that blogger.

Eventually, however, it felt too small. I liked having a house, but needed a bigger city. So now I'm in Seattle, in a 1910s-'20s "streetcar suburb" that is still on major transit routes, and I love it. I can walk to the store, post office, etc. I have an old beater car, and drive it less than 2000 miles per year. I have a dinky yard where I can plant a few flowers and vegetables, and it's safe to let the cats out. And yeah, I live very close to neighbors who are often noisy, messy, clueless, and inconsiderate, but I'm extremely noise-tolerant and tend not to get worked up over things unless they're a truly serious problem.

One of these days, I'll get tired of the upkeep on the house and decide to move. But when that happens, I'll go closer to downtown, or even consider a condo in my current neighborhood. I'll never go back to the suburbs--ever. And while the country's nice for a weekend, I am not a country girl at all.

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Someone else has mentioned privacy and proximity to other people in the city, but tbh I really don't get it. I don't live in a large city, but I've never felt like I didn't have privacy. I've felt that way in the country, but we may have different ideas of privacy.

I have noticed this phenomenon with a lot of people, myself included. I grew up in a tiny city house (attached) and feel, I don't know, exposed or something when I'm out in the country. People I know who've grown up in the suburbs (I'm talking BIG houses, BIG yards) have serious problems adjusting to the spacial limitations of apartments and small city homes. I think that personal space, and what that means to us as individuals, is ingrained in us at a pretty young age (I don't want too much - need the noise and hustle and bustle - while others need a LOT). It's honestly taken me some time to get over being judgmental about this... I am still really anti-sprawl and all about not overconsuming, but have realized different people have different comfort zones and there's no need to be holier-than-thou about being able to have a small footprint.

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I spent at least an hour on the link from Bookworm in the chatter post something "Living without a car"(something like that). I LOVE the old world European no car cities like Venice and villages in France. I would live in any of those cities is a minute!

Warning: If you look at that link, you are going to get sucked into the pictures and the other links posted and want to move there with me. :)

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I have noticed this phenomenon with a lot of people, myself included. I grew up in a tiny city house (attached) and feel, I don't know, exposed or something when I'm out in the country. People I know who've grown up in the suburbs (I'm talking BIG houses, BIG yards) have serious problems adjusting to the spacial limitations of apartments and small city homes. I think that personal space, and what that means to us as individuals, is ingrained in us at a pretty young age (I don't want too much - need the noise and hustle and bustle - while others need a LOT). It's honestly taken me some time to get over being judgmental about this... I am still really anti-sprawl and all about not overconsuming, but have realized different people have different comfort zones and there's no need to be holier-than-thou about being able to have a small footprint.

Hmm, that explains it. I moved to the country when I was 7, but before then lived in cities/suburbs, where the houses were small. Of course I was little so the houses seemed pretty big to me, but I have a feeling that if I visited them now they'd feel quite small. I have no problem with the idea of living in a small apartment, because for a while I did live in one. Even now in college, living in small dorms and suites doesn't bother me.

I wonder how early personal space is ingrained into us, because I've always felt quite exposed walking down the street I grew up on.

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Someone else has mentioned privacy and proximity to other people in the city, but tbh I really don't get it. I don't live in a large city, but I've never felt like I didn't have privacy. I've felt that way in the country, but we may have different ideas of privacy.

I get claustrophobic in large crowds of people if I have to be crowded for lengthy periods of time. It's not about safety or privacy for me. I was in New York City once for four days. Loved it the first day except for the crowds, and by the fourth day I would have probably clawed someone's eyes out if I'd had to stay longer. I've lived in the city near here (of about 240,000 people) and just hated it. Give me suburbia and enough space to actually breathe; I'll handle the driving I have to do to go anywhere. The house we're looking at buying is about four miles away from my town of 9000 and about 10 miles away from the "big city," with an acre of land. I can't wait to be able to sit on my patio without being able to hear the neighbors above and next to me talking. :-)

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I don't understand the "us vs them" that country-folk can have toward city people (or vice versa), especially when you consider there tend to be very similar socioeconomic issues in both urban (well, inner city) areas and very rural populations. For example, food deserts tend to be concentrated in very rural or very urban areas.

I grew up in a so-called exburb. Not quite rural, not quite suburb. Far enough out that I've had my share of drunken pasture parties! :D

Often I feel torn between city or country living. I love space, so country life seems swell, but I also love the diversity, noise, culture, and and ease that a city can offer. WHO KNOWS. Right now I live in a very diverse, working class area of the 'burbs and I love it.

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Someone else has mentioned privacy and proximity to other people in the city, but tbh I really don't get it. I don't live in a large city, but I've never felt like I didn't have privacy. I've felt that way in the country, but we may have different ideas of privacy.

Interesting. Are you talking about living in a place where everyone is all up in your business? I can see that, mostly in small towns where people also live in the outlying countryside. My husband is from a place like that. You are in a rural area, but the town everyone gravitates to is pretty small and everyone knows everyone.

I felt the lack of privacy mostly in the suburbs, where neighbors watched you drive home from work and then timed sending their kids over to the exact moment you got out of the car. My poor tired husband could scarcely get in the house for a shower without a neighbor showing up wanting to blather on about something; and then he would never catch the hint that it was time to leave. Garbage trucks, people speeding on the same streets where my kids and I would be walking the dog, traffic in general. It was too much. IN a way there was more "privacy", aka anonymity, in the city!

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Was that whole entry meant to be a joke - perhaps a tongue-in-cheek way of looking even more like a bumpkin? I can only hope....

Seriously people - if you live in the country, I assume that you have mastered basic map reading skills. Just transfer those to the mall directory. It's not hard.

I was under the impression that malls are primarily suburban, but that they serve rural areas too. It just means that rural folks get into a car and drive a bit farther to get to one. Most rural folks don't make their own shoes, weave their own cloth, forge their own pots, etc.

Using Toddlers & Tiaras - really? Because where I live, when we want to make broad negative generalizations against another group, we generally use T&T to put down backwoods hicks in the South. As a city girl, I always associated cultural diversity with multicultural areas, not g-strings.

Never heard of "mantyhose", but I'm quite familiar with long underwear. I did have a very religious cyper-pal who said that she put her sons in tights under pants, since she was living in an area without central heating.

Expense? Well, it depends on the place, and how you travel. Parking is more expensive and travel by car more stressful. OTOH, you can often skip the car altogether and simply walk, take transit or rent a bicycle. Hotel rooms are more expensive, but there is often more opportunity to find hostels or private short-term rentals. If you avoid the poshest places, you can find a larger concentration of places to eat that are fairly cheap in the city, and the volume and competition drives down the prices. As starving students, hubby and I were able to grab cheap veggie dogs on the street, or vegetarian roti for $3, or some awesome breads and pestos and salsas from a local farmer's market, or even splurge on a sit-down, full-course Chinese meal (less than $20 for 2, tax and tip included). Locals know about the street festivals, and the free or nearly free stuff to do, and can also buy annual passes to attractions that are less than the cost of 2 day passes. Canada's Wonderland (big theme park 15 min. from my house) is downright cheap for us, because we get a family pass each year, and just pop over after dinner in the evenings. It's not cheap for tourists, who spend almost as much for a single day in the park, and then spend more money on overpriced food once they are there.

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The original suburbs in the US are like that too, you can find them referred to as railway suburbs or trolley suburbs and the like sometimes. I'd happily live there.

You can see people trying to get back to that idea with New Urbanism, too. The idea being, you have a little suburb of houses and a supermarket, a library, and then there's a high speed transit connection to the bigger city.

The suburbs that are the hardest to get around in without a car are more modern US suburbs, where there are no grid streets and all of the uses (housing, shopping) are SEGREGATED into pods, so that even in your little suburb, if you want to go to the market you HAVE to drive, and the streets are mostly cul-de-sacs off of a few curvy "collector streets." In those places, you need to drive, or if you insist on not, you need some serious confidence to bike the streets and some endurance to walk. A kid would be completely dependent on parents for transit there. In short, MY personal nightmare, but that's why I don't look for housing there :)

We were very apprehensive about leaving the heart of downtown Toronto for the burbs, but actually found a niche that works for us. We're on several bus lines, so the kids will be able to get around without us when they get older. We've got schools, a mall, a couple of community centers, library, supermarket, places of worship, etc. within a fairly small area, so I can walk to the pharmacy, corner store and Starbucks and it's just a very short drive to everything else. At the same time, we made the decision to work close to home, so we aren't battling traffic everyday. For us, it's like smaller town living with bigger city cultural amenities. (It was actually a burb planned to meet the needs of Orthodox Jews, who walk to synagogue on Saturdays, so the area is quite walkable compared to other suburbs.)

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I have lived in both, but I prefer living in the country. The crime rate is dramatically lower than the city (and usually family feud related). Not all rural areas a teeming with meth labs and meth heads. What bumps in the night I hear are from dogs, cats, or some other animal. The amount of money I spend for gas driving 60 miles round trip to and from work is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying rent for an apartment in the city. As for the "snobbish" country folk, it's all in how you approach them. Move to rural area and being obviously suspicious (yeah we can tell you think we're ass backwards ignorant hicks no matter how hard you try to be nice and polite) and set out trying to change things to promote a more cosmopolitan, big city-like area will cause country folk to to distrust you.

Personally, I find country folk more polite than city folk on any given day. But I supposed hearing m'am, sir, having doors opened for you (by both sexes), and being call "hun" is the equivalent of being called "old bitty/old fart", and being sexist instead of genuine politeness. Whatever. I'm not giving up my country home and 2 acres only to be bullied by homeowner's associations, nasty suburban neighbors fighting over a damn tree crossing a property line, a dog taking a dump in a neighbors yard, and reports of rowdy or loud, partying neighbors and their kids.

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I have lived in both, but I prefer living in the country. The crime rate is dramatically lower than the city (and usually family feud related). Not all rural areas a teeming with meth labs and meth heads. What bumps in the night I hear are from dogs, cats, or some other animal. The amount of money I spend for gas driving 60 miles round trip to and from work is a heck of a lot cheaper than paying rent for an apartment in the city. As for the "snobbish" country folk, it's all in how you approach them. Move to rural area and being obviously suspicious (yeah we can tell you think we're ass backwards ignorant hicks no matter how hard you try to be nice and polite) and set out trying to change things to promote a more cosmopolitan, big city-like area will cause country folk to to distrust you.

Personally, I find country folk more polite than city folk on any given day. But I supposed hearing m'am, sir, having doors opened for you (by both sexes), and being call "hun" is the equivalent of being called "old bitty/old fart", and being sexist instead of genuine politeness. Whatever. I'm not giving up my country home and 2 acres only to be bullied by homeowner's associations, nasty suburban neighbors fighting over a damn tree crossing a property line, a dog taking a dump in a neighbors yard, and reports of rowdy or loud, partying neighbors and their kids.

Wow, way to miss the point entirely, prove your point with overgeneralization and stereotyping, and conflate the city and the suburbs all in one post :roll:

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I didn't miss the point. I'm speaking from experience, so not overgeneralizing at all. But ok, I hate city living too for the same reasons that I hate suburbs. Plus, for me personally, I hate the noise and pollution of the city. Oh, but I did forget that I have my own small veggie garden and that driving 10 miles to the nearest town for groceries and other necessities isn't such an inconvenience.

ETA: The road I live one is racially & ethnically mixed, maybe not as much as in the city or suburbs, but it is there and is accepted and embraced.

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It's hard to simply compare country vs. city crime rates, because they really depend so much more on WHERE in the city and WHERE in the country you base it on. Gang violence generally affects certain pockets of a city. "Country" can refer to an area with meth labs and/or oxycontin addicts, or it can be an area filled with estates for the horsey set.

Also, keep in mind that the crime rate is different than the overall number of crimes. More crimes occur in urban areas simply because there are more people, although the crime rate per 1.000 residents may be the same.

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I grew up in a village. We had 350 people and 99% of the school i attended were farm kids. If you didnt live on a farm you were not worth anything. I didnt fit in because I wasnt a farm kid. My backyard was a fence away from pasture and cows. I learned alot about farming through osmosis.

For college i moved to Toronto. Loved every minute of it. Loved the crowds, the noise, even the smog. Loved being able to go anywhere and not have to know someone.

I came home to attend a funeral and met my husband. Damn it if he wasnt a farmer. So now i am back in the country. I would rather be in a nice condo in a beautiful city but I love him more.

Crime rate is an interesting topic for country versus city. We are within a mile of the city limits where we live. It is pretty quiet but the crime that happens alot close to us is drugs and prostitution.

Not the growing or the manufacturing of drugs but the transportation of them. The dealers will drive into our area, pick a lease road and drop a large package of either drugs or money. Someone else will come by and pick up the package and return to town. We have to watch the strange vehicles that travel up and down our roads. There is really nothing that we can do about it because the police are never near by.

As for prostitution, the "john" will pick up a girl/guy and bring her out to the middle of nowhere. They will conduct their business, throw the condoms, needles whatever out the window and drive back to town. So we continually find condoms and yucky stuff in our driveways and lease roads. Where our dogs, kids, cows, etc can encounter it. And yes we have caught people in the act, in the morning, on our way to work.. having sex in their truck... blocking our driveway. Try to explain that to the kids in the backseat.

At least in the city you know to avoid certain areas, or not to buy a house in a neighbourhood. Heck, when we lived in the city we had 2 drug houses within view of our front door. We felt safe because the cops were past our place every hour and the druggies wouldn't hit a home so close to their supplier. Just as the safest place in the country is within spitting distance of the hell's angels clubhouse.

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I grew up in a village. We had 350 people and 99% of the school i attended were farm kids. If you didnt live on a farm you were not worth anything. I didnt fit in because I wasnt a farm kid. My backyard was a fence away from pasture and cows. I learned alot about farming through osmosis.

For college i moved to Toronto. Loved every minute of it. Loved the crowds, the noise, even the smog. Loved being able to go anywhere and not have to know someone.

I came home to attend a funeral and met my husband. Damn it if he wasnt a farmer. So now i am back in the country. I would rather be in a nice condo in a beautiful city but I love him more.

Crime rate is an interesting topic for country versus city. We are within a mile of the city limits where we live. It is pretty quiet but the crime that happens alot close to us is drugs and prostitution.

Not the growing or the manufacturing of drugs but the transportation of them. The dealers will drive into our area, pick a lease road and drop a large package of either drugs or money. Someone else will come by and pick up the package and return to town. We have to watch the strange vehicles that travel up and down our roads. There is really nothing that we can do about it because the police are never near by.

As for prostitution, the "john" will pick up a girl/guy and bring her out to the middle of nowhere. They will conduct their business, throw the condoms, needles whatever out the window and drive back to town. So we continually find condoms and yucky stuff in our driveways and lease roads. Where our dogs, kids, cows, etc can encounter it. And yes we have caught people in the act, in the morning, on our way to work.. having sex in their truck... blocking our driveway. Try to explain that to the kids in the backseat.

At least in the city you know to avoid certain areas, or not to buy a house in a neighbourhood. Heck, when we lived in the city we had 2 drug houses within view of our front door. We felt safe because the cops were past our place every hour and the druggies wouldn't hit a home so close to their supplier. Just as the safest place in the country is within spitting distance of the hell's angels clubhouse.

The presence of police and crowds is a factor when looking at safety. I felt safe walking around downtown Toronto (Bay & Gerrard) at all hours because it was well-lit and never deserted.

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