Fundies, the military, and homeschooling

[currywurst]

Hey, any fundies or ex-fundies want to shed some light on this? So I have been reading some of these fundie blogs (been sick for weeks :( ). Anyway, so many of them are against public schools yet have lots of connections with the military. I am wondering why public schools are considered bad because they are run by our godless country, yet the military seems not only okay but almost glorified. I don't get it.

[nolongerIFBx]

I am a fundie, homeschooled while my dad was in the military so maybe I can answer your question, LOL.

I don't think that fundies are against public school because they are run by the government so much as that they are against much of the content that is taught. Evolution, sex education, sociology, psychology, etc. all have some aspect that is not fundie approved. Public education (I go to the ebil state university so I speak from experience) does seem more concentrated on preparing a child's mind to fit into society than strictly teaching the three "R"s. That social mind set is exactly what the fundies do not want their children to learn.

The military is revered because it is about fighting for freedom, religious liberty, patriotism. It isn't about working for the government; it is about defending and protecting the Constitution and the country. I have, however, heard more talk in recent years discouraging youth from considering the military because some of the tasks that they military may be asked to do in the future would conflict with fundie ideals- imposing martial law, pretty much anything the UN would want them to do, etc.

I offer this as a possible explanation in answer to your question not as any type of justification. I don't have children so I don't know what education I would choose for my child. As a single person, it most likely wouldn't be homeschooling as I would need to work enough to provide for myself and a child. I don't discount that I would place my child in public school; I do very much doubt that I would have them spend all 12 grades there.

[currywurst]

That is interesting. I guess my thinking is that if the military is for the purpose of defending our country and our way of life, then one of the things it would be defending is our educational system. It would also be defending the US and all the other ebil things it does (gay marriage, etc). Anyway, I have always thought it odd that people who claim Jesus to be their savior would ever even consider joining the military, much less glorifying it. Any warrior mentality seems to be the complete opposite of the tenants of Christ.

[debrand]

The military IS working for the government. We the people of the United States are the government. The constitution is the government. The government isn't some mindlesss organization that we follow. So, yes, the military fights for the government but I consider that a good thing.

Fundies glorify the military because they want to bask in soldiers' courage and bravery without actually sacrificing their own comfort.

[tinuviel]

[...] The military is revered because it is about fighting for freedom, religious liberty, patriotism. It isn't about working for the government; it is about defending and protecting the Constitution and the country. I have, however, heard more talk in recent years discouraging youth from considering the military because some of the tasks that they military may be asked to do in the future would conflict with fundie ideals- imposing martial law, pretty much anything the UN would want them to do, etc. [...]

I also have reservations about what congress and friends do with the military, but martial law certainly isn't up there on the list! (Not saying it's on your list either). I was at a gathering with a bunch of older relatives a while back and they said that Obama was going to pass laws to take all of our guns away so we couldn't fight back when he declared martial law. I said, "well, why would he declare martial law? Of course there are laws about when and how this stuff works, right?" They passionately replied that doing anything Obama didn't like was grounds for martial law, as far as liberals were concerned. "Liberals don't care about the law! They'd just do it!" I decided to quit the conversation and then they started going on about how Obama would take their children away after martial law was declared.

I just can't imagine being seriously worried about impending martial law. Seems utterly insane to me. But I guess if you're like my older relatives and your only news comes from Fox News, prophecy shows, and conspiracy websites my great uncle finds online... :?

That said, they're thrilled to death that some of my cousins are in the military. Patriotism and real America and all.

[ohpotteryourotter]

What do they think of women joining the military?

[Conuly]

"Liberals don't care about the law! They'd just do it!"

Even were this true, how on earth did they think that Obama would get away with this, exactly?

[tinuviel]

I've never asked what they think of women in the military, but I'm sure they think it's fine for women to join in the capacity of spouse. ;-)

Conuly, no fucking clue how they think Obama would get away with it. The main propagators of fundie madness in my extended family are in their eighties and they've been sucked into some insane fear loop through their media choices. Some of them have middle-aged offspring who have always lived next door to them and don't really associate with people other than family and a few church friends, so they pretty much drank the kool-aid too.

I would ask how they think Obama would get away with it, but I'm pretty sure their response would have something to do with the Bible prophesying a one world government of idolators in the end times. Nothing like randomly culling verses from the book of Ezekiel to back up a political prediction. Or they would say that the liberals "just would" because we're so ungodly and brainwashed as a nation.

ETA: My grandma believes a lot of weird things, but she's a lot more chill on the whole conspiracy thing. She's also pretty well educated, married someone slightly less fundie, and has lived in a couple of different places. Plus her children moved away and became all worldly. Amazing the difference even a little more exposure to the outside world can make!

[desertvixen]

Fundies glorify the military because they want to bask in soldiers' courage and bravery without actually sacrificing their own comfort.

Yes, and they might also be exposed to differing people with other ways of life! OMG, there are women in authority in the military. There is also a fair amount of equality when it comes to pay issues, and military women get maternity benefits.

There's also people in the military who will report your ass for child abuse and spouse abuse.

Don't forget all the single moms and single dads and divorced people and so on and so forth.

Lastly, their family wouldn't be the final authority on everything.

[PBrooke]

Martial law. Huh.

I once knew a super-conservative guy. As the 1996 Olympics approached, he went on about how there would be an attack of some kind, leading to Clinton declaring martial law, suspending habeus corpus, etc. Funnily enough, I think there was a small explosion at the Olympics, but obviously none of those things happened. I always think of that guy when I think of martial law. There are always people who predict the worst. I always wonder if they re-evaluate their position when it doesn't come true.

[tinuviel]

Yes, and they might also be exposed to differing people with other ways of life! OMG, there are women in authority in the military. There is also a fair amount of equality when it comes to pay issues, and military women get maternity benefits.

GAH! Yes! The mother in a fundie family I know won't let her son join the military because it will be full of 'bad influences'. I think the real reason is that she won't be able to control her son and/or take his money anymore. :evil:

[desertvixen]

GAH! Yes! The mother in a fundie family I know won't let her son join the military because it will be full of 'bad influences'. I think the real reason is that she won't be able to control her son and/or take his money anymore.

Plenty of my younger soldiers are still sending their parents money. As long as he was paying all his bills and doing the right things, no one would really care.

However, in just our company, he would have had to deal with:

1. the female captain (who is married to a male captain in a different unit) who commands the unit

2. the black first sergeant (although he's pretty into religious stuff, so he might be okay)

3. the Hispanic sergeant who lived in sin with his once-divorced (different guy) girlfriend - they had a baby and then got married - and he's taking care of some other man's kids

4. the single mother (me) who dates an enlisted man she outranks

5. the pretty atheistic sergeant

and that's just the CADRE. Let's not even start on the diversity of our junior soldiers, especially now that we allow them to be gay openly, and people don't have to hide pictures of their signficant others. That makes me so damn happy, I cannot express. The only thing that would be better is if they actually could get benefits.

We even have a few Muslim soldiers... their little heads would go all splodey.

[Guest Anonymous]

The military IS working for the government. We the people of the United States are the government. The constitution is the government. The government isn't some mindlesss organization that we follow. So, yes, the military fights for the government but I consider that a good thing.

Fundies glorify the military because they want to bask in soldiers' courage and bravery without actually sacrificing their own comfort.

The only military outfit they'll ever participate in is the 101st CHAIRBORNE.

[Evilbad]

As a vet and now an army civilian, I think it's more that the military allows them to maintain thier lifestyle much easier. Free housing, health care, and Christians are pretty well supported in the military environment. Heck, up to a certain number, you even get extra grocery allowances for the kids. If they live on base they dont even pay utilities.

I have seen a few conservative american military families here in Europe, skirts wearing, homeschooling, many kids and all. I'll be pragmatic and say its just easier to be in the military because they can live all thier values and be pretty well taken care of while doing so. I have had more than a few leaders who were extremely conservative, with prayer before squadron functions and all.

Back to lurking.......

[currywurst]

As a vet and now an army civilian, I think it's more that the military allows them to maintain thier lifestyle much easier. Free housing, health care, and Christians are pretty well supported in the military environment. Heck, up to a certain number, you even get extra grocery allowances for the kids. If they live on base they dont even pay utilities.

I have seen a few conservative american military families here in Europe, skirts wearing, homeschooling, many kids and all. I'll be pragmatic and say its just easier to be in the military because they can live all thier values and be pretty well taken care of while doing so. I have had more than a few leaders who were extremely conservative, with prayer before squadron functions and all.

Back to lurking.......

Yeah I think that is it. The military is basically just a social welfare program. It gives uneducated, otherwise minimally employable people an opportunity to raise a big family on just one person's income.

[Childless]

I also have reservations about what congress and friends do with the military, but martial law certainly isn't up there on the list! (Not saying it's on your list either). I was at a gathering with a bunch of older relatives a while back and they said that Obama was going to pass laws to take all of our guns away so we couldn't fight back when he declared martial law. I said, "well, why would he declare martial law? Of course there are laws about when and how this stuff works, right?" They passionately replied that doing anything Obama didn't like was grounds for martial law, as far as liberals were concerned. "Liberals don't care about the law! They'd just do it!" I decided to quit the conversation and then they started going on about how Obama would take their children away after martial law was declared.

I just can't imagine being seriously worried about impending martial law. Seems utterly insane to me. But I guess if you're like my older relatives and your only news comes from Fox News, prophecy shows, and conspiracy websites my great uncle finds online... :?

That said, they're thrilled to death that some of my cousins are in the military. Patriotism and real America and all.

Sorry to have to say this, but your family is filled with nutjobs. I have super conservative relatives and while they don't like Obama and would never vote for him, they in no way think he will invoke martial law. I do get irritated at people like Ted Nuggent who go on and on about Obama taking away the right to bear arms. Has Obama ever said anything about changing gun laws? I don't remember him ever saying one word about it. He's all about his health care law and putting in regulations for the financial industry in order to prevent another economic meltdown. Those are the domestic policies he's working on. All this hand wringing and screaming about the sky falling is so ridiculous. It makes conservatives seem foolish and stupid. I'm sure most of them are not either of those things, so I'm not quite sure why they buy into this crap.

Even though I'm loathe to say it, I think it has to do with the color of his skin. Even Clinton wasn't treated with this amount of animosity and he was a lot more liberal than Obama. This is the only president that has had to put forth not one document, not two documents, but three or more documents that verify the fact that he was born in the U.S. Why was McCain considered legit after only providing one document to verify his citizenship since birth even though he was born outside the U.S., but Obama, who was born in the states, has had to bend over backwards to prove his citizenship since birth and even then people still question it? The only thing I can come up with is that his skin is brown and not white. I thought we, as a nation, were past this petty race thing. I guess not. *sigh*

[desertvixen]

As a vet and now an army civilian, I think it's more that the military allows them to maintain thier lifestyle much easier. Free housing, health care, and Christians are pretty well supported in the military environment. Heck, up to a certain number, you even get extra grocery allowances for the kids. If they live on base they dont even pay utilities.

To an extent... however, the military also dictates how you access that health care and housing. Trying to get a midwife covered under TRICARE is a massive pain - and while yes, they can just pay out of pocket, the military is still going to get involved in medical for the kid.

You do not get extra grocery allowances unless it's to keep you off the evil food stamps. Military also heavily encourages the use of WIC and other such benefits. Utilities on base are NOT necessarily free anymore. With the privatized housing, they have a threshold set for utility use - if you go over it enough you get charged, if you can stay under it, you actually get money.

I'll be pragmatic and say its just easier to be in the military because they can live all thier values and be pretty well taken care of while doing so. I have had more than a few leaders who were extremely conservative, with prayer before squadron functions and all.

I'll agree to that, although at least the places I've been, that's starting to get more of the side-eye. I'm here at Fort Carson now, so I expect a little heavier amount than I have been getting.

The military is basically just a social welfare program. It gives uneducated, otherwise minimally employable people an opportunity to raise a big family on just one person's income.

This is not really accurate. The standards have been tightened up, and I would expect that we're going to start seeing some cuts in benefits as well. However, the majority of my co-workers are NOT uneducated and minimally employable.

Why was McCain considered legit after only providing one document to verify his citizenship since birth even though he was born outside the U.S., but Obama, who was born in the states, has had to bend over backwards to prove his citizenship since birth and even then people still question it? The only thing I can come up with is that his skin is brown and not white. I thought we, as a nation, were past this petty race thing. I guess not. *sigh*

I think the skin color had something to do with it, but also the fact that McCain was born on a military base. But yes, hypocrisy was definitely calling on that one.

[lilwriter85]

There are some fundies who applaud the military but they would never join or allow their kids to join. The Duggars on one of their Q&A episode were asked about their views on the military. Their response was that they support and appreciate the military, and they would be proud if one of the boys joined. I think they were bullshitting about the last part. Boob and Mullet probably would never allow any of boys to join the military. They like being in full control of their sons and they wouldn't like the idea of a son being stationed away from the family or even deployed to a war. They also know that there are different types of people in the military. Boob and Mullet probably don't like the idea of women being in the military and some fundie bloggers have stated that on their blogs. Mullet's ass probably gets chapped when she occasionally sees a military women out in public wearing fatigues, sporting shorter hair or a bun, and wearing boots.

There are fundies who are in the military. There was a fundie blogger whose husband was an Air Force veteran and her daughter married a Marine. That blogger's blog seems to have gone private or it might have been taken down. That blogger and her husband were trying to raise money to adopt a child. I remember their blog was posted on FJ yuku in regards to Daniel and Lyndsie.

[Childless]

There are some fundies who applaud the military but they would never join or allow their kids to join. The Duggars on one of their Q&A episode were asked about their views on the military. Their response was that they support and appreciate the military, and they would be proud if one of the boys joined. I think they were bullshitting about the last part. Boob and Mullet probably would never allow any of boys to join the military. They like being in full control of their sons and they wouldn't like the idea of a son being stationed away from the family or even deployed to a war. They also know that there are different types of people in the military. Boob and Mullet probably don't like the idea of women being in the military and some fundie bloggers have stated that on their blogs. Mullet's ass probably gets chapped when she occasionally sees a military women out in public wearing fatigues, sporting shorter hair or a bun, and wearing boots.

There are fundies who are in the military. There was a fundie blogger whose husband was an Air Force veteran and her daughter married a Marine. That blogger's blog seems to have gone private or it might have been taken down. That blogger and her husband were trying to raise money to adopt a child. I remember their blog was posted on FJ yuku in regards to Daniel and Lyndsie.

Are you kidding me? With the possible exception of John David, none of the Duggar kids are hard working or disciplined enough to handle the military. Could you imagine Smuggar having to follow commands and get up at the crack of dawn? Can you imagine him running several miles everyday or learning to make a bed a quarter would bounce off? Please. I think the military would be better off if none of the Duggars decided to join.

[lilwriter85]

Are you kidding me? With the possible exception of John David, none of the Duggar kids are hard working or disciplined enough to handle the military. Could you imagine Smuggar having to follow commands and get up at the crack of dawn? Can you imagine him running several miles everyday or learning to make a bed a quarter would bounce off? Please. I think the military would be better off if none of the Duggars decided to join.

I think John David could handle being in the military but he still has the Duggar time attitude. I agree, Smuggar wouldn't last in the military for the reasons you stated.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The military IS working for the government. We the people of the United States are the government. The constitution is the government. The government isn't some mindlesss organization that we follow. So, yes, the military fights for the government but I consider that a good thing.

Fundies glorify the military because they want to bask in soldiers' courage and bravery without actually sacrificing their own comfort.

I work for the state (in a technical job). A career military guy I am now related to who I very much disagree with politically on just about every issue (he is very right wing, probably supports Santorum, very into the gender binary, you get the picture) started criticizing me for it when we were together at an event recently, and my first response was to point out that hey dude, I might work for the STATE government, but you work for the FEDERAL government. That's even bigger government!!

Boy was he mad. Because of course somehow "but that's different!!!11!!". It was hilarious, we soon changed the subject as always, and life goes on.

As for homeschooling I've heard that homeschooling can be popular among some regular military families because they move around so much, and think that homeschooling gives the kids a solid steady basis - they move around, but everywhere they are, school is still the same SOTDRT. Surely it would help somewhat there I guess, but I can't help but worry about the isolation - moving around every few years has to be uprooting enough just as it is, and then to not have the usual "easy built in, automatic" way to make friends when you move? Surely it would be hard? People criticize the "kids all caged together unnaturally with only people their own age" thing, but if you need to meet potential friends fast, it can work!

[debrand]

Yeah I think that is it. The military is basically just a social welfare program. It gives uneducated, otherwise minimally employable people an opportunity to raise a big family on just one person's income.

In some cases the military gives people who couldn't otherwise support themselves a chance to acquire skills but I wouldn't characterize any of the service members as minimally employable. In order to succeed in the military, an individual must be hard working and able to interact with others. A person who is minimally employable wouldn't be able to adjust to the lifestyle or finish the training. Perhaps someone who has never served in the military would be surprised to know that soldiers have actual jobs and specialties for which they receive training. My husband, for example, was a meteorologist. My sister was trained in communications and my brother was a nurse.

[Evilbad]

I agree to a certain extent, but there are also tons of jobs that leave the person with skills that are not transferable in the civilian sector. No, they aren't all dumb grunts but they often work grunt jobs that leave them little extra time to pursue other skills or a valid degree.

My husband and I both got out trained as IT people with very marketable skills, but that is definitely not always the case, unfortunately.

And there are several people who get in and stay in simply becaus they have a larg family they wouldn't otherwise be able to support.

It is what it is, I guess. I joined because I didn't want to go to college after high school, and it's been good for us. I love supporting the military now as a civilian, it's awesome.

[dawbs]

I also think that once in the military, there's a lot more acceptance of red-state rightwing nuttyness.

I don't think I can say this w/o sounding anti-us-military personnel (and I'm not, IMO), but IME, people who have absolutely nutty ideas about the world can be high ranking.

Hell, I'm scheduling time off this summer to go to a military retirement thingy for a career family member who has super-de-duper high-level security clearances. He's against gays in the military, women in the military, women working outside the home, believes there's a conspiracy, believes The Druge Report must be accurate because they've never had to issue a retraction, stockpiles MREs for the coming downfall of the gov., is stockpiling gold for the same reason, etc.

I don't think he could have succeed in the non-military world w/ all of those ideas (and It'll be interesting this time next year for me to see where he is)...and I'll also say he had *leanings* that way 20 years ago, but being in the military for however long successfully pushed him FARTHER that way and made him even nuttier. (and let him have access to weapons and the like while he did it--whee!)

[Elle]

The military is revered because it is about fighting for freedom, religious liberty, patriotism. It isn't about working for the government; it is about defending and protecting the Constitution and the country.

The irony being that they aren't for religious freedom for anyone else, and they ignore the bits of the constitution that give women equal rights as men and separating the churches from the states and free speech and all that good stuff.