This will be the result if fundies get bully laws revolked.

[doggie]

This will happen even more if fundies get their bully laws revoked or going. But if they do it in the name of Christ it is all fine.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/1 ... 31442.html

A gay Iowa teen has taken his own life after friends and family say that classmates sent him death threats on his cell phone and made him the subject of a Facebook hate group.

As KTIV is reporting, 14-year-old Kenneth Weishuhn Jr. began to be teased and bullied by classmates at South O'Brien High School after he came out earlier this year. "People that were originally his friends, they kind of turned on him," sister Kayla Weishuhn, a sophomore, is quoted as saying. "A lot of people, they either joined in or they were too scared to say anything."

The anti-gay teasing reportedly also continued online, where classmates created a hate group against gays and added Kenneth's friends as members, and got even worse when the freshman started receiving death threats from students on his phone.

Weishuhn’s mother Jeannie Chambers said her son told her, "Mom, you don’t know how it feels to be hated."

Details on Weishuhn's death are otherwise scarce, but a Facebook group has already been started in the teen's memory. "Unfortunately, the culture most of us have been raised in has been the mindset that you get 'picked on' in school and that's just part of growing up," one user writes. "Bullying is like most other crimes, the only way it's going to stop is if the offenders get caught and are prosecuted."

Adds another: "I hate to think of what he must have gone through to decide suicide was his only option. I hope and pray all of these bullies feel responsible for what happened."

[currywurst]

As a lawyer, I really hate the use of the word "bullying." Sending someone a death threat is a CRIME. Punching someone in the hallway is a CRIME. Stalking someone is a CRIME. Tripping someone on purpose is a CRIME.

To any parents of a "bullied" child: if your kid gets physically harmed by another kid at school then you need to call the police, not the school, and report the crime. You might also consider a civil suit against the perpetrator. These are criminal acts and so I have no idea why parents take these problems to the schools when they are clearly a police matter.

[Spider Burps]

As a lawyer, I really hate the use of the word "bullying." Sending someone a death threat is a CRIME. Punching someone in the hallway is a CRIME. Stalking someone is a CRIME. Tripping someone on purpose is a CRIME.

To any parents of a "bullied" child: if your kid gets physically harmed by another kid at school then you need to call the police, not the school, and report the crime. You might also consider a civil suit against the perpetrator. These are criminal acts and so I have no idea why parents take these problems to the schools when they are clearly a police matter.

This. Kids gave me hell in school, both physically and mentally, but my mom said it was my job to "deal with it like everyone else." I tried telling the principal and he LAUGHED at me and told me to "dress normal" and that everyone would leave me alone. If my future kids are ever bullied, I'm going straight to the police. Teachers and administrators are there to teach and administrate, not to police the students; That's a job for the POLICE.

[Loveday]

As a lawyer, I really hate the use of the word "bullying." Sending someone a death threat is a CRIME. Punching someone in the hallway is a CRIME. Stalking someone is a CRIME. Tripping someone on purpose is a CRIME.

To any parents of a "bullied" child: if your kid gets physically harmed by another kid at school then you need to call the police, not the school, and report the crime. You might also consider a civil suit against the perpetrator. These are criminal acts and so I have no idea why parents take these problems to the schools when they are clearly a police matter.

This. My husband is a middle school teacher and will tell you from personal observation that the school administration will simply brush it all under the rug unless the parent takes it to the police and/or threatens legal action against the perpetrator and even the school system itself. It usually takes the possibility of negative publicity, which school systems HATE, for anything to be done.

[currywurst]

Glad at least a couple of people agree with me. Here is something else I do not understand: in almost all jurisdictions, if a teacher or other school employee knows that a child is being abused at home, then they are required by law to report it to the police! Now how on earth cannot that not be true if that same child is being abused at school? Bullying is criminal abuse, period. So if a principal sees a student punch another student in the face, and does nothing about it, then he or she should be prosecuted under those same laws which require them to report suspected child abuse to the police.

I understand "kids will be kids" and I am certainly not one to elevate all physical altercations to a police matter, especially amongst very small children. But I sure as shit think that by the time "kids" are in high school, then violent acts need to be dealt with by the police. I also would encourage kids who are being bullied (physically criminally assaulted) to just start calling the cops themselves.

[snarkbillie]

I understand "kids will be kids" and I am certainly not one to elevate all physical altercations to a police matter, especially amongst very small children. But I sure as shit think that by the time "kids" are in high school, then violent acts need to be dealt with by the police. I also would encourage kids who are being bullied (physically criminally assaulted) to just start calling the cops themselves.

Once kids are in elementary school they should be able to function without hitting each other. After that they damn sure better have more productive coping than to violently assault someone they don't "like". When my cousin got beat up after school in the 3rd grade my uncle did call the cops. The kids who did that either needed to be punished or their home-lives needed to be investigated. Ganging up on a kid and violently assaulting them is not normal behavior. Something was wrong with those kids. All three of them are now in counseling as part of their sentencing and I'm really okay with that. I wish their parents had been pulled in to some parenting courses/counseling too though.

[Guest Anonymous]

Glad at least a couple of people agree with me. Here is something else I do not understand: in almost all jurisdictions, if a teacher or other school employee knows that a child is being abused at home, then they are required by law to report it to the police! Now how on earth cannot that not be true if that same child is being abused at school? Bullying is criminal abuse, period. So if a principal sees a student punch another student in the face, and does nothing about it, then he or she should be prosecuted under those same laws which require them to report suspected child abuse to the police.

I understand "kids will be kids" and I am certainly not one to elevate all physical altercations to a police matter, especially amongst very small children. But I sure as shit think that by the time "kids" are in high school, then violent acts need to be dealt with by the police. I also would encourage kids who are being bullied (physically criminally assaulted) to just start calling the cops themselves.

currywurst, I completely agree with you in theory - in practice, though, I wonder if the police take this sort of thing seriously or if they write the parents of the kids who are being bullied and the kids themselves off as nuisances and time wasters? That would quite probably be the case where I live, speaking from experience.

It can be very difficult to get anyone to treat bullying with the gravity that it deserves, school officials and the police included.

**ETA: In different parts of the U.S. / world it might be very different. (I hope it is.) I live in a place where kids who dress or act differently are often perceived as "bringing it on themselves" and likely to be told to change their own behavior instead of the bullies getting told off for mistreating others.

[currywurst]

I highly recommend then that people like that get a good attorney. NO ONE should be expected to endure violence. (professional boxers aside). The reason bullying continues to go on like this is because people are not taking it seriously enough, including the parents. For some reason, getting physically abused at school is perceived as "normal" by enough people that there is an actual DEBATE about how to handle it. How fucking sick are we? I swear it is borderline sadistic. We actually expect a 15 year old to "deal" with getting physically abused all on his own and we even tell him that if he was not so weird, he would probably not be such a victim.

I like teaching through examples, so here I go: I am a 30 year old woman. Say I tell all of you that earlier today, as I was walking down the street, a woman my same age came up to me, told that the clothes I was wearing were gross and that I was weird, and she then purposefully tripped me as I walked away (I ignored her). The fall caused me to fracture my wrist and resulted in other small injuries. As a result, I have medical expenses. Would you honestly tell me that that woman is just a "bully" and that is that? Hell no! You would tell me to call the police. You would say she is clearly dangerous and deranged. You would also tell me that she needed to pay for my medical expenses and maybe even a little "extra" just for good measure. And you sure as hell would not tell me to "fight back" if I ran into her again. In fact, I think all of you would reasonably tell me that she might be unhinged and that if I see her again I should run away.

Yet this exact same thing happens in high schools every damn day and it is brushed aside as "bullying," and thus considered something that both parties are expected to "work through."

[currywurst]

Quickly need to add: though bullies are assholes, I highly doubt if most school bullies come from loving, stable homes. In fact, my guess would be most bullies are being abused at home.

I simply cannot fathom, for all the reasons I have given, why we still take bullying so lightly.

[CanadianHippie]

As a lawyer, I really hate the use of the word "bullying." Sending someone a death threat is a CRIME. Punching someone in the hallway is a CRIME. Stalking someone is a CRIME. Tripping someone on purpose is a CRIME.

To any parents of a "bullied" child: if your kid gets physically harmed by another kid at school then you need to call the police, not the school, and report the crime. You might also consider a civil suit against the perpetrator. These are criminal acts and so I have no idea why parents take these problems to the schools when they are clearly a police matter.

Quoted again for truth. I seriously cannot get my head around the fact that not only do some people this it's okay against LGBTQ people, but they think it is just generally okay... I mean what the fuck is wrong with people to think it's okay to send death threats, physically assault and stalk another person.

[urban teacher]

I agree about going to the police and I have been teaching over 12 years. Administrators can suspend but for my students it's nothing. They think fights are part of life, their parents also tend to have the same attitude. Assult charges might help. Going in front of Judge Judy may help. Suspensions do not.

[currywurst]

Heck my mom had to take my brother out of school for that second semester of sixth grade because he was getting so badly bullied. The school did nothing about it and my brother was being physically assaulted at school. I honestly do not think it even occurred to my mother to call the police though.

[currywurst]

I agree about going to the police and I have been teaching over 12 years. Administrators can suspend but for my students it's nothing. They think fights are part of life, their parents also tend to have the same attitude. Assult charges might help. Going in front of Judge Judy may help. Suspensions do not.

Yeah my mom was a teacher and so I know that for most students who are bullies, getting suspended is like a vacation for them.

The school needs to make it very clear from day one that all these acts a crimes with potentially lengthy prison sentences. They also need to point out that you can be sued civilly and have your wages garnished for years.

All victims of bullying deserve the same level of justice and victims of any other violent crime.

[CelticGoddess]

Every time I hear about a teen committing suicide because of being bullied, my heart breaks. I was bullied in jr high and high school. I was lucky, I survived. I have scars, both physical and emtional. Some have faded, some have not. I still look back at high school and wonder how the hell I managed it.

Fast forward to today: same shit, different day. Schools and local law enforcement don't do squat a lot of times. Parents of bullies don't care. Until we stand up and say NO MORE, things aren't going to change. I have taken a stand. I stood up to a principal who thought my daughter should just suck it up. (She was fired that year for slapping a guidance counselor, if that gives you any indication of what kind of woman she was). My daughter was in 3rd grade.

We have to take a stand. Bulliying won't be tolerated. No one should have to live with the scars.

[currywurst]

BTW, I am little bit new here, so I just have to ask: why are fundies against anti-bullying laws? I don't get it. Wouldn't Christians, of all people, be against violence at school?

[mockingbird]

We had a police officer on duty at my high school at all times and if a fight broke out he got involved. Kids were arrested for violence/starting a fight on at least one occasion while I was there. Not all schools are going to have the resources to have a police officer there all the time (my school didn't have a bad/violent reputation either, I think we just had the money to afford having the officer there) but I agree going to the police is a good idea. Especially something like death threats. Schools don't have the resources to handle something like that. I also agree that suspensions don't do anything to curb violence, most people I knew who got one also thought it was like a vacation.

I had a stalker in high school - not a violent one, but he was "in love" with me. If telling him clearly that I wasn't interested and he needed to stop hadn't worked I probably would have gone to the police because it was getting scary. He was an alumnus and it was mostly online but I knew he could easily figure out where I lived and obviously knew where I went to school, etc.

[Visionoyahweh]

BTW, I am little bit new here, so I just have to ask: why are fundies against anti-bullying laws? I don't get it. Wouldn't Christians, of all people, be against violence at school?

They want to be able to use the bible as a cudgel against anyone what gets in their way. So no, they're not against violence in schools.

[OohLaLa]

They want to be able to use the bible as a cudgel against anyone what gets in their way. So no, they're not against violence in schools.

Yes, and from what I understand, they don't like the laws that prevent bullying against LGBT students because apparently the alternative is being supportive of and encouraging that lifestyle. You know, if you prevent them from being bullied, those damn gay kids will just start popping up all over the place and corrupting today's youth! Those laws aren't to prevent bullying (which of course is just a normal part of school anyway), they're pushing an AGENDA on and in our schools! How dare they try to tell MY precious baby that gays are people too and should be treated accordingly!

Ok, I'm done being sarcastic. This is heartbreaking.

[Bloo]

This really upsets me. Unfortunately, it doesn't surprise me in the least.

A friend of a friend who is in high school was targeted by other kids on Facebook. Among other things, they tagged her in a pornographic picture (a, um, busy woman's private part) and spent many hours calling her a slut. Not that it matters either way, but the child in question is actually a virgin. But because of who the bullies are, no one is doing a damn thing (aside from the family of the poor victim).

My own story is similar. I was sexually harrassed for several months in high school, but because the harrasser was a relative of mine, my own mother told me I had to "work it out" with him. It didn't stop when I told him to stop (repeatedly), so eventually I went to my guidance counselor. Again, because we were related, she brought us in together to "work things out." Thankfully, that at least scared him enough to actually stop. However, when word got back to my mother that I'd told, she yelled at me for bringing "family business" to the school.

A certain amount of conflict between children is a part of growing up. However, harrassment, threats, and assault are criminal. It isn't all that hard to tell the difference.

[emmiedahl]

A certain amount of conflict between children is a part of growing up. However, harrassment, threats, and assault are criminal. It isn't all that hard to tell the difference.

Kids do need to learn to deal with conflict, and school is a great place to do that. However, there are certain levels of conflict that are not allowed in the adult world, and they need to be disallowed at schools as well. Not just to prevent children from becoming victims, but to send a message to perpetrators at a young age that harassing behavior and bullying are not allowed.

I have never worked in an office where some one threatened to hit me if I did not give them my lunch money, or where people harassed me to the point where I was suicidal. These things are not allowed in a workplace and they did nothing to prepare me for the adult world.

[alysee]

Kids do need to learn to deal with conflict, and school is a great place to do that. However, there are certain levels of conflict that are not allowed in the adult world, and they need to be disallowed at schools as well. Not just to prevent children from becoming victims, but to send a message to perpetrators at a young age that harassing behavior and bullying are not allowed.

I have never worked in an office where some one threatened to hit me if I did not give them my lunch money, or where people harassed me to the point where I was suicidal. These things are not allowed in a workplace and they did nothing to prepare me for the adult world.

QFT!

[darkplumaged]

It really is amazing what kids endure and are seemingly expected to endure--and none of it, as currywurst and emmiedahl in particular have pointed out, is acceptable or common in the adult world.

I'm thinking now about what I went through, mostly during middle school, and I can't believe no one ever saw it happen. (But when I punched one of my bullies, who had slapped me in the face moments earlier, naturally a teacher saw me. I didn't really get in trouble, though.)

I always said, even at the time, that being bullied made me weaker, not stronger. It made me even more shy than I was naturally, and very distrustful of people, particularly boys. I also thought I was hideously ugly; after all, I was told so repeatedly by various boys.

I've often thought that I'm not sure I could in good conscience send a child of mine to middle school. I'm not sure it's possible for any kid, except maybe the most popular or fearsome, to emerge without being physically and emotionally abused by other students.

[DistantStar]

Middle school was three years of psychological torture for me. And no, I am not overstating that. Were my coworkers to treat me like that we're talking Lawsuit-O-Rama. But when I was a vulnerable 12-year-old somehow it was all my fault anyway and nobody really did anything but tell me "Ignore them."

I understand why these kids kill themselves. I didn't get to that point, but I easily could have.

[Miggy]

Is this type of teacher reaction typical across the USA or are we only talking about certain schools or certain areas?

I work for the NSW Dept. of Education (Australia). We have a state wide anti-bullying policy which is in place in every public school. Students are taught exactly what bullying is. Some students (and parents!) think it is only bullying if someone is hurt but we teach children that teasing is unacceptable, socially isolating someone is unacceptable, etc. We teach children how they should react in different situations and who to report problems to. We have a series of consequences for children who bully. It starts with making the student write down exactly what they did wrong and how they should have behaved. This may sound a bit wishy-washy but it is surprising how often we find that a child genuinely doesn't know what they did was wrong. We can then work with that child to teach them appropriate behaviour. The system works all the way up to suspension from school and/or classes in a behaviour unit. Students who are suspended are not on holiday. They have to complete a huge amount of work - both behaviour work and school work. If parents are unable or unsuitable to supervise this then students have in-school suspension, where they are attend school but are isolated from other students. (At my school they work in the corner of the Deputy Principals office.) There is a big emphasis on teaching correct behaviour rather than punishment. The argument being "If a child can't read, we teach them. If a child can't do maths, we teach them. If a child can't behave, we....punish them?" Bullying still occurs but we have a really solid system for dealing with it and providing support for victims. I had assumed that variations on this would exist in all countries with a western-style education system.

[currywurst]

I wish they would do something like that here. I think many schools address the issue, but many don't. IMO, one of the worst ideas to enter the schools in past 20 years or so is this zero tolerance bullshit. It basically just lumps everyone together into one category, does absolutely nothing to get to the heart of the problem, and punishes perps and victims equally.

I must say I am not a parent, but if I were I would not allow to school to tell me how my child's bullies were going to be handled. I might give them one chance to deal with it, but then I would definitely be the one in charge. I think the process of going through school as children has left most adults with a lasting fear of the school. Thus, too many parents think they are powerless to stop the school from doing whatever it wants. Get real. Take the example above of the girl getting tagged in porn. Do not call the school. Do not even call the parents. Get a lawyer to draft a really lovely letter and send it individually to the bullies. That would scare the shit out of any teenage girl. If you call the school or the parents, then the bullying will just escalate in other ways. A letter from a lawyer, with the consequences of losing a civil suit laid out nice and clear would be much, much more effective.