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Doug Wilson. Women Can Play Sports But....


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One time, many years ago, our family drove up to a summer basketball camp where Nate was participating. While there, we took a look around, and watched some of the action of a girls' basketball camp, then still in progress. This was a Christian camp, and yet the girls were swaggering around on the court, slapping one another on the butt, and generally acting as unladylike as they could.

I'm not certain why men slapping one another on the butt is masculine but I don't find it offensive. He goes on to assure us that women should not be kept under a glass like porcelean dolls but neither should they engage in manly sports.

Sports that favor women would include things like figure skating or floor gymnastics. The men might be able to get more oommph into their triple axle, but it doesn't matter. The women are still better. And besides male figure skaters have that nagging aura exuded by male ballet dancers. They might be as talented and as strong as all get out, but something is still, as the Spanish say, el wrongo.

Let me get this straight. This middle aged, out of shape guy is deciding that male figure skaters and gymnasts who could easily beat his ass aren't manly enough? What is wrong with men like Doug Wilson? Is his penis so inordinately small that he has to assure everyone of his manhood? I just don't get this fear about people stepping outside of their cultural gender roles.

The fact that we have forgotten ourselves, and the whole point of athletics for our daughters, can be seen in the assumption, even among Christians, that outlandish immodesty is okay, provided it is for the sake of beach volleyball, or less drag in the school swimming pool.

So, he would rather young women swim in what, dresses? I think that athletes and their trainers probably know what clothing is best for competition.

It might be easy to dismiss all this as based on nothing other than our cultural prejudices. But I don't believe that is what is occurring at all. Run this thought experiment on yourself. Without mentioning any names, or pointing in any particular direction, say the phrase lesbian basketball coach to yourself. Does any particular profile come to mind? And do you want your daughter to look anything like that?

No. I don't have any particular name in my mind when I say the words, lesbian basketball coach because I don't have an immature view of gender. Also, I don't view homosexuality as being bad or lesbians as having only one personality or appearance.

dougwils.com/Sex-and-Culture/competing-like-a-lady.html

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OK, I'm going to go way out there and guess the "el wrongo" he sees in male figure skaters is the hint of the....uh.......effeminate? Projecting much Dougie? I would pay some very serious money to watch Brian Boitano give Doug Phillips the good sound beating he so desperately deserves. Asshole.

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Hmm. I have seen Evan Lysacek at close range. As in skating by ten feet in front of me, though I haven't had the chance to say hi. (There are regular summer ice shows at the resort I work at.) Way cuter in person than on TV. He was nice to a coworker once and she has a permanent crush. He's also insanely tall.

Perhaps I could enlist him to assist with the beatdown? He's probably got about a foot on Dougie in height alone, let alone muscle.

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"...that nagging aura exuded by male ballet dancers..."

WTF?

Has this guy ever BEEN to a ballet?

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even among Christians, that outlandish immodesty is okay, provided it is for the sake of beach volleyball, or less drag in the school swimming pool.

OT: I was a swimmer, and one of the best in state. I wore a full body suit that made me more hydrodynamic (and it was hella fugly- totally modest). I took it very seriously, and I did not sport around a skimpy bathing suit to look cute. But even if I did, who the fuck cares?

So the author is categorizing that the arts=feminine and sports=masculine. Obviously, I disagree with this on so many levels. I know many introverted straight men that would rather express themselves through art rather than taking their agression out through sports. And some women (like me) with an athletic build would do better playing sports. These men just don't appreciate the diversity that God gives us. They'd rather label things black and white- not by biblical standards, but by their own social and cultural standards. And you know what? My husband appreciates me being able to give him a good basketball game once in a while... and he really likes it when I give him a smack on the butt too! :dance:

Edited to clarify.

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And besides male figure skaters have that nagging aura exuded by male ballet dancers. They might be as talented and as strong as all get out, but something is still, as the Spanish say, el wrongo.

So, wait, wait, wait.

Tapping other guys on the butt = buff manly man.

Holding pretty girls up in the air = gay gay gay!

Is he ABSOLUTELY SURE he's reading his handbook the right way? Because I just don't see it!

The fact that we have forgotten ourselves, and the whole point of athletics for our daughters, can be seen in the assumption, even among Christians, that outlandish immodesty is okay, provided it is for the sake of beach volleyball, or less drag in the school swimming pool.

The immodesty spoken of is the cultural norm in our country. The "outlandish" fashions are the ones worn by his family. They are literally foreign to the mainstream culture.

And do you want your daughter to look anything like that?

I want my hypothetical daughters to judge people on the content of their characters, not on their outward appearances. (I also don't want them to judge people on their hobbies or their sexual orientation, but that's a different issue. Would he really have a better image in his mind of a "lesbian seamstress" or "lesbian homemaker" or "lesbian nurse" than he does of a hypothetical "lesbian basketball coach"? I doubt it.)

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Doug isn't the only one who views male figure skaters or male ballet dancers as less manly. I have an aunt who lives in Colorado Springs and she has connections at the Olympic training center. She has met male figure skaters who have said they deal with a lot of asshole comments.

In the comments section, some people nitpicked Doug and they did a job.

Jane Saturday, February 25, 2012 7:39 am

While applauding the overall point of the article, I'm going to join Robert in the nitpick party. Male gymnasts are hardly girly-men, and the sport is much more about strength than style, and women's racing swim suits cover more than almost anybody you'll see at the beach. On beach volleyball, though, and girls grunting and slapping their way around the basketball court, you're spot on. Beach volleyball is a particularly interesting case since it's a hard-driving, in-your-face kind of game, played by almost-naked girls.

Jane is right about gymnastics. A lot of it is about strength. Gymnasts do a lot of cross training like lifting weights. Doug wouldn't make doing the simplest gymnastic routines.

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Is his penis so inordinately small that he has to assure everyone of his manhood?

Wow. The guy is an complete jerk, but why is this statement okay to say? It sounds insulting. Plenty of guys have smaller penises than average and aren't jerks. Doug Wilson's penis size shouldn't even be an issue. It's the size of his ego that's the issue. Would it be okay to assume a woman is a jerk or obsessed with "feminity" because her breasts must be too small? His statements come across as the typical "masculine" is good, "feminine" is bad issues. (In quotes because those are defined by society, not real lines). Men obsessed with the patriarchy seem to have control issues and want their egos stroked. Wilson is saying men who play certain sports aren't "real men" in the same way some other fundie females claim that women who go to college, work, like sex and/or sports, etc. aren't "real women".

One time, many years ago, our family drove up to a summer basketball camp where Nate was participating. While there, we took a look around, and watched some of the action of a girls' basketball camp, then still in progress. This was a Christian camp, and yet the girls were swaggering around on the court, slapping one another on the butt, and generally acting as unladylike as they could.

I don't buy that. It's possible, but I've watched some practices when a friend was playing and never saw anyone slap anyone's butt. If they did, it's probably for fun and as a joke, not some serious lesbian ritual or whatever Wilson thinks it is.

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Hmm. I have seen Evan Lysacek at close range. As in skating by ten feet in front of me, though I haven't had the chance to say hi. (There are regular summer ice shows at the resort I work at.) Way cuter in person than on TV. He was nice to a coworker once and she has a permanent crush. He's also insanely tall.

Perhaps I could enlist him to assist with the beatdown? He's probably got about a foot on Dougie in height alone, let alone muscle.

The youngest child saw him win the nationals in LA. He is a wonderful athlete and really is a nice guy. Those guys and girls who skate give up their childhood to win titles. Going to skate before school, skating after school, when ever they could get ice time.

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The more I read of Doug Wilson, the more I think he doesn't actually know what he's trying to say. He just says shit that sounds correct or sounds like it fits into his worldview, and insinuates that you're gay if you don't agree with him. But he doesn't really do any research past all those Bible verses he looked up, like what racing swim suits look like.

I challenge Doug Wilson, Doug Phillips, and all these other manly-men to a cross-section of sports (measuring basic fitness like strength-to-weight, flexibility, balance, etc) against any reasonably in-shape woman. I haven't been running in a long time myself, but I bet I could still beat them in the 200-meter dash across the beaches of Normandy. Or climb a tree faster and paintball a target from it, although I've never done that before. Owning a dick does not make you better at stuff like that automatically. I notice these dudes don't actually do anything that would make it possible to measure their manly arts in a public forum, they just talk about it in vague terms like it's somehow caught in the essence of their lard-bound souls. They wear their beards and their guts (despite the fact that fat produces estrogen) and mock "effete" men. Because those man-tits under your sweater-vests are totally the pinnacle of masculinity.

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I agree with you dairyfree. A man's penis size has nothing to do with his value as a human being. I probably should have said that Wilson obviously has problem with confidence issues revolving around being masculine.

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Hmm. I have seen Evan Lysacek at close range. As in skating by ten feet in front of me, though I haven't had the chance to say hi. ........Perhaps I could enlist him to assist with the beatdown? He's probably got about a foot on Dougie in height alone, let alone muscle.

We are on to something here. We get a time, a place, and sell tickets. Also side bets to determine how quick the beatdown will go down. Proceeds can be split evenly between a gay anti defamation organization and Planned Parenthood. Think of it, we get to see 2 great athletes doing the Lord's work, see Dougie cry like a little girl, and raise money for worthy causes. I like.

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Fuck that. I participate in the manliest of manly sports (how manly, you ask? so manly that Doug Phillips has his interns learn how to do it!) and it is NOBODY's fucking business how I get my endorphins going.

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OK, I'm going to go way out there and guess the "el wrongo" he sees in male figure skaters is the hint of the....uh.......effeminate? Projecting much Dougie? I would pay some very serious money to watch Brian Boitano give Doug Phillips the good sound beating he so desperately deserves. Asshole.

No, I think the deal is that he does not like sports where the menz wear bulge-revealing outfits. It triggers his size issues.

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Quote:

Sports that favor women would include things like figure skating or floor gymnastics. The men might be able to get more oommph into their triple axle, but it doesn't matter. The women are still better. And besides male figure skaters have that nagging aura exuded by male ballet dancers. They might be as talented and as strong as all get out, but something is still, as the Spanish say, el wrongo.

Did he learn Spanish from the Duggars??

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"...that nagging aura exuded by male ballet dancers..."

WTF?

Has this guy ever BEEN to a ballet?

Nureyev? Baryshnikov? Doug Wilson couldn't do what those guys did...

But there's a Wikipedia article that describes what we're seeing waft off Wilson, it's called "the Western stereotype of the male ballet dancer" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_st ... let_dancer

Jesus, save us from your followers!

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I guess he would approve of me doing martial arts then as my gi covers all. Oh wait, no, too aggressive and manly, I should be pressing flowers instead of beating the crap out of a punch bag.

I'd like to roundhouse kick this ass into next week.

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Obviously never watched gymnastics, has he? My leotards covered about the same amount of skin as my swimmers so definately not within his modesty standards. Hours, weeks, months and years of training gave me some decidedly unfeminine muscles. Those of us in the gymnastics squad were always tomboyish compared to the ballet/netball/softball girls. My daughter, who lives for field hockey, is more feminine than I have ever been and far more modest, in skirt and poloshirt, when she plays.

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I guess he would approve of me doing martial arts then as my gi covers all. Oh wait, no, too aggressive and manly, I should be pressing flowers instead of beating the crap out of a punch bag.

I'd like to roundhouse kick this ass into next week.

It would be especially horrible in his eyes if you showed the wrong type of excitment over a match.

He thought the girls' basketball team 'swaggered' in an unladylike fashion. Beyond hitting one another on the butt, I have no idea what he means by the word swagger. Yes, I know the definition, I just don't know what exactly offended him. Was it just the overall excitment of competition? Or was it that they were they showing too much pride and confidence in their abilities?

I can't even imagine his reaction if you sparred against a man.

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Hey folks, newbie here. I lurked here for a while yesterday when I was sick in bed the entire day. Love the snark.

Um, count me in as one who sees figure skating and gymnastics to be far more vulgar and immodest than basketball. Gymnasts wear tight leotards and constantly spread their legs, etc. Very little is left to the imagination in gymnastics. Same with figure skating. At least the girls are pretty well covered in basketball attire.

This guy seems incapable of forming a good argument to support his assertion. I do not really understand what he is saying. Is he saying that some sports make girls and boys "gay," whereas other do not?

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Mikhail Baryshnikov

WAY better eye candy than Doug Wilson can ever imagine being.

Plus, with male ballet dancers, you've got ready made defrauding for ya there.

Stupid idigit should actually read what a Pas de deux even IS. Female dancer displays her grace and agility. Male dancer demonstrates his strength and athletecism. Then, they dance together to show the art and beauty of melding both together.

My grandfather studied ballet from the age of 2 until he was 19. At one point, he considered going professional. He decided instead to work for the CIA....yeah, real effeminate there for you--real life spy material. Effeminate never, ever was a word that would have been associated with my grandfather. When I was little, he used to dance the Russian Dance from the Nutcracker just to make us laugh. He could nearly get his rear all the way to the ground and his legs straight out. As he got older, he couldn't go nearly as low but it was still powerful to watch him dance.

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Nureyev? Baryshnikov? Doug Wilson couldn't do what those guys did...

But there's a Wikipedia article that describes what we're seeing waft off Wilson, it's called "the Western stereotype of the male ballet dancer" - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_st ... let_dancer

Jesus, save us from your followers!

Not every culture views dancing as effeminate and gay the way we do here in the US. Dancing is considered very manly and sexual in many cultures where the arts are more appreciated.

Yes, there are gay dancers out there. Nureyev was gay. Barishnikov isn't (and has quire a reputation as a ladies' man). Balanchine was straight. So are Ethan Stifel, Benjamin Millepied, and Peter Martins. Patrick Swayze, manly action hero, began his career as a ballet dancer.

In fact, if a guy wants to get laid, he should consider a career in ballet. There is never a lack of opportunity.

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I am always suspicions of "straight" men who are constantly thinking about what activities gay guys tend to participate in. Just sayin'.

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Um, count me in as one who sees figure skating and gymnastics to be far more vulgar and immodest than basketball. Gymnasts wear tight leotards and constantly spread their legs, etc. Very little is left to the imagination in gymnastics. Same with figure skating. At least the girls are pretty well covered in basketball attire.

There are reasons for that, though. Loose, floppy clothing that covers the body (like basketball shorts) would be incredibly dangerous in gymnastics. We weren't allowed to participate if we weren't wearing the correct clothing. Long, floppy pants on the balance beam? Yeah, that's a recipe for disaster...And one of the points of these sports is to show off what the human body is capable of through training and skill. Kind of hard to appreciate the amazingness that is the human body and all it can do if these people are wearing, say, snowsuits.

Dougie never surprises, does he? It's always the same old schtick. "GAY MENZ!!! THE GAY MENZ ARE AMONG US!!!!!11!1!!!!" Same old story, same old song and dance. *yawn*

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