Married at 12

[emmiedahl]

I haven't seen anyone mention this yet. Reading between the lines, it sounds to me that her husband likely molested their daughters before they left the original cult. It appears that all the males were taught to discipline females sexually and she even wrote near the bottom of this post ( marriedat12.blogspot.ca/2011/03/life-today.html ) that her older two girls (ages 4 and 6 when they left, by my calculations) were in therapy for the sexual abuse they sustained. I can only wonder what effect that abuse has on the girls combined with all this yammering about the importance of modesty so as not to distract the men from their religious studies, particularly if they WERE molested by their father since he's the one insisting on the modesty as well as submission. Also, in this post ( marriedat12.blogspot.ca/2011/03/anger-inside-me.html) she's angry at the outside world for not noticing that she and her sisters were being sexually abused. If her husband did in fact molest their daughters, I wonder what she'd think if CPS investigated their family now?

What do you all think?

(Also, sorry for bringing a thread up from the second page- I don't know if that's frowned upon here. After lurking for months, I finally registered yesterday in large part so I could comment on this thread and my account was not approved until today)

About resurrecting threads, I don't think anyone cares around here. As long as you don't come here to tell us we are going to hell and spout intolerant bullshit, you can call up all the old threads you want as far as I am concerned. And people here are pretty good at letting you know when you fuck up, so if no one has said anything yet...

About the abuse of the daughters: I sure hope she is not with a pedophile. Oh my, that is horrifying. Her husband had an interest in her daughter's menarche that seemed really squicky to me. Because she is so into the completely un-Jewish idea of wifely submission and sees her husband as some kind of hero because he stopped raping her eventually, I definitely have some concerns here.

[RR88]

About the abuse of the daughters: I sure hope she is not with a pedophile. Oh my, that is horrifying. Her husband had an interest in her daughter's menarche that seemed really squicky to me. Because she is so into the completely un-Jewish idea of wifely submission and sees her husband as some kind of hero because he stopped raping her eventually, I definitely have some concerns here.

Think the whole blog's a fake, maybe? I'm waffling on that one.

[Witsec7]

I waffle on this blog too. I've read it in its' entirety one more time. I still can't tie her to any cult in rural NY state, and I don't think they moved to Canada, unless they did so illegally, which could be possible. And I there are gaps in the story about leaving the family cult. By her writing it sounds like it happened within a year of her marriage. Her husband is self employed and often works out of their home.She used to work outside the home sometimes, but stopped at her husbands behest. I do think its highly possible she was abused sexually. But sometimes her written descriptions are text book.

[emmiedahl]

I hope this is a fake. I just really hope so. She does not seem Jewish to me, although I am unfamiliar with the Jewish cults.

[Cats Pajamas]

I really hope it's fake, too. The whole thing gives me a weird vibe. I mean, a weird vibe aside from the one caused by all the talk about sexual abuse and submission!

And Emmiedahl, thanks for the info about posting in threads that aren't on the first page. I figured people would be happy to let me know if I did anything wrong but wanted to apologize in advance.

[RR88]

I really hope it's fake, too. The whole thing gives me a weird vibe. I mean, a weird vibe aside from the one caused by all the talk about sexual abuse and submission!

And Emmiedahl, thanks for the info about posting in threads that aren't on the first page. I figured people would be happy to let me know if I did anything wrong but wanted to apologize in advance.

Welcome, Cats Pajamas! Nice name ;)

[fakepigtails73]

Wow, aside from her not wearing the Jewish version of the niquab (I didn't even know that such a thing existed, goes to show how extreme even to other Hassidics she seems to be), not kneeling when her hubby enters the house (I've never heard of anyone, whether extreme Muslems, Jews or Christians that do that because their faith demands it) and not having her husband rape her kids (thank God!! ) I barely see any difference from how she grew up. She has links to quivering daughters and rick ross' anti-cult website, among others. Odd from someone who seems to be very much in a "cultish" mindset...

Jealous of people like her family? Oh boy!! Pompous much? :roll:

The best response to her is from a girl named Tova (who seems to be an Orthodox Jew from what I gaged by her note) that left a comment on June 2, 2011 at 11:06 AM. A must read.

[Kitty]

I tried to go over there to read Tova's comment, but Chrome stopped me and told me that the site has content from another site apparently known to contain malware. :o I think the other site, amotherinisrael, may have been hacked or something.

[Austin]

(Also, sorry for bringing a thread up from the second page- I don't know if that's frowned upon here. After lurking for months, I finally registered yesterday in large part so I could comment on this thread and my account was not approved until today)

No, it's not frowned up and is preferred. Better than starting a new topic for something we've recently discussed. ;)

[fakepigtails73]

Oh shit. I just googled Lev Tahor.

What is it with cults and the Laurentians?

http://aol.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... ISHSECTATL

Ste. Agathe is indeed a rural/resort community in the Laurentian mountains, just about an hour north of Montreal. For years, it's been popular with the Jewish community and there are mainstream Hasidic groups that vacation up there, but this sounds like a fairly new cult compound. I wonder how they got into Canada - are they illegally overstaying as visitors? It would match the story about feeling out of place in their previous strict Hasidic community, but now finding a rabbi with similar views.

If this is true, and it's not a troll basing stuff on the Lev Tahor community, then she got out of one cult and into another.

You're right, lots of cults are in the Laurentiens!

As to why, I guess that it's because it is scarcely populated (save from a few places like St-Jérôme, St-Sauveur and St-Jovite) and is geographically very vast, it has gorgeous mountains, forest and lakes (cults love the "communion with nature" factor), the last main "town" of the Laurentians is Mont-Laurier (just before entering the Parc de la Vérandrie for those that are going to Abitibi-Thémiscamingue) which is "only" 3 hours away from Montréal so the area is remote but not so much that one has to spend many hours on the road to go to a big city to do whatever cults need to do in big cities (recruiting?). From the early 60s until a couple of years ago Québec as a whole was home to lots of cults (I have my reasons as to why that was, but it's out of the scope of that post...), heck even in the 1920s the weird cult "Les Apôtres de l'Amour Infini" (loosely translated as the apostles of infinite love) set up camp in the lower Laurentians, where they've been "polluting" the area ever since.

There seems to be less cults in 2012 than a couple of years ago; maybe it's just that the ones we have up there nowadays tend to keep a lower profile?

We all remember the "Solar Temple" carnage in Switzerland, France and Québec in 1994-95; the Québec murders-suicide happened in Morin-Heights (near St-Sauveur) on the same day. Poor little baby Émanuelle, murdered in that carnage...

There's nothing scientific at all in what I wrote, it's just that your mention that I bolded made me think! :ugeek:

[Cats Pajamas]

No, it's not frowned up and is preferred. Better than starting a new topic for something we've recently discussed. ;)

Heh, I would have just refrained from commenting. My thoughts on this blog are far from important enough to warrant a new thread!

[RR88]

Yup, Dina's husband is raping her. She writes on Lori Alexander's blog that her husband requires "total sexual submission" of her: lorialexander.blogspot.com/2011/11/wives-who-suffer-for-jesus.html

[RR88]

More admission of rape: lorialexander.blogspot.com/2011/12/naked-and-unashamed.html#idc-container

[lexiloumarie]

I think links are supposed to be broken, not clickable here. Take the http:// off of both.

Did we discuss these people on Yuku? I feel like I've heard about her/them before.

[RR88]

Did you read Dina's comments at the end of both of those links? I'm not sure she was discussed on Yuku, as her blog hasn't existed until recently. I think her claims that her husband owns her body and that he REQUIRES her to totally sexually submit to him indicate rape and other non-consensual behaviors. Am I overreacting?

[emmiedahl]

No, you are not over-reacting. That language indicates that she feels resigned to nonconsensual sex.

[RR88]

What fascinates me is the way Dina loves to remind Christian bloggers that she is a Jew, and yet she holds such un-Jewish ideas about sexuality and the role of women. Even Orthodoxy, by no means feminist, does not expect women to obey their husbands. Similarly, rape within marriage is prohibited and spouses, while they are encouraged not to withhold sex from each other, are considered very evil if they coerce sex. The ancient rabbis even said that a man cannot sleep with his wife if she is drunk, as the act might be not fully consensual.

[samurai_sarah]

What fascinates me is the way Dina loves to remind Christian bloggers that she is a Jew, and yet she holds such un-Jewish ideas about sexuality and the role of women. Even Orthodoxy, by no means feminist, does not expect women to obey their husbands. Similarly, rape within marriage is prohibited and spouses, while they are encouraged not to withhold sex from each other, are considered very evil if they coerce sex. The ancient rabbis even said that a man cannot sleep with his wife if she is drunk, as the act might be not fully consensual.

I have a question about that. Somehow I was under the impression that in Judaism sex was a woman's right, and a husband's obligation, which to me sounded like deciding when to have sex is a female prerogative. I may have got that completely wrong though, but if I got that right, wouldn't that mean that Dina is in direct contradiction to Jewish ideas? Sorry, I really don't know much about Judaism, and it'd be great if someone could clarify that for me.

[emmiedahl]

Jewish women have a right to sex from their husbands, yes. And men are not supposed to make demands or coerce their wives. What Dina believes (in more cases than just this one) is more similar to Messianics than Jews. I am waiting for her to pull out a Yah and a Yeshua.

[samurai_sarah]

Thank you for clearing that up for me! :)

[RR88]

Thank you for clearing that up for me! :)

emmiedahl knows her stuff!

But yeah, I'm waiting for Dina to proclaim a belief in Yeshua.

[RR88]

It looks like that first comment (about sexually submitting) was taken down since last night, even though it had been up for months at the time. Maybe I'm going blind?

[RR88]

I guess she's getting used to rape, as she writes here:

"I am also finding it easier to perform my "wifely duties" (ahem) without having a really big breakdown."

marriedat12.blogspot.com/2012/01/difference.html

[RR88]

Sorry I keep posting, but I'm beginning to wonder if her husband did something terrible to her and that's why she hasn't been blogging.

[lexiloumarie]

Did you read Dina's comments at the end of both of those links? I'm not sure she was discussed on Yuku, as her blog hasn't existed until recently. I think her claims that her husband owns her body and that he REQUIRES her to totally sexually submit to him indicate rape and other non-consensual behaviors. Am I overreacting?

I know this isn't the first thread about her but I found one here. http://www.freejinger.org/viewtopic.php ... 0&start=20 I can't find one on yuku, or on here but that thread references an older one so I'm not sure if yuku pulled it when they pulled the others or what. Her blog is at least a year old. I do remember a lot of discussion over her daughters being picked on for very extreme dress compared to the rest of her Haredi community. People were pointing out it wasn't required by any part of halacha and she was very adamant that they do it. I only asked because I remember we had found some things that meshed with her story a little, although it was still all very strange and hard to believe.