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Your Worship Service Might Be Effeminate If...


Olive Plant

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Uhm....don't most people wear, you know, armor vests and fatigues and whatnot when in battle now? Robes would be terribly inefficient.

Plus, I kind of had this weird idea that church was about worshipping and praising God and not so much on the whole killing people thing. Maybe I was wrong?

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It surprises me that so many of the men we cover are sensitive about being seen as manly and yet would run screaming if they were actually conscripted into battle.

It used to surprise me as well. But it most definitely seems like fundie religions seem to have a disproportionate share of men that seem fairly useless and (for lack of a better term) wimpy to me. JimBob with his Aquanet-sprayed hair and constant need to tell everyone that he has 19 children; people like Dougie who enjoy playing dress up wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much; etc. It's a bleaker version of Revenge of the Nerds.

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Guest Anonymous

Thank you. I LOVE my church, I will be sad to leave it when I move.

Ditto what Shina said. It sounds like your pastor might actually have the ability to get my butt back in a pew. I miss going to church in some ways, but I don't miss grinding my teeth through many of the sermons. I'd like to find a place where that wouldn't be an issue.

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Ooo, yummy, this explanation to CRS (who I suspect is a FJite) from a Bayly admirer:

CRS; quick note. Feminine is great. Effeminacy is the cringe-inducing attempt of a man to model femininity. It doesn't look the same all the time--manly men of many ages have worn pink well, for example--but in general, effeminacy is the male abdication of male roles (father, leader, pastor) in favor of female roles (nurturer, mother, etc..).

So if you've got a pattern of emphasizing female roles to the exclusion of male roles in church--music singing only of the woman's perspective, sermons ignoring God's Fatherhood, and such--you have basically emasculated the church and made it effeminate. And then people who do so wonder why the men aren't there--at least not men worth giving a ring to.

Good freakin' grief.

Pink seems to be a real bugaboo with these folks. What exactly makes pink "feminine"? Is a peach feminine? Should men thus avoid peaches? Pink is a pastel shade of red, that's all it is, it has no other connotation beyond what's culturally considered to be a baby-girl's color.

Notice how the guy (I'm sure it's a guy) writing breaks down when he tries to make parallels between proper male and female roles. He writes,

"...effeminacy is the male abdication of male roles (father, leader, pastor) in favor of female roles (nurturer, mother, etc..). ..."

Men: fathers.

Women: mothers.

Men: pastors.

Women: nurturers.

Men: leaders.

Women: ...... women: women???? Well, he's not courageous enough to actually post it, but Women: Followers!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and they can't be anythiing else!!!!

Cowards.

And what the he|| is this? --

So if you've got a pattern of emphasizing female roles to the exclusion of male roles in church--music singing only of the woman's perspective, sermons ignoring God's Fatherhood, and such--you have basically emasculated the church and made it effeminate. And then people who do so wonder why the men aren't there--at least not men worth giving a ring to.

What is "the woman's perspective" on hymns? Can a friend who served in the military be presumed to endorse "Onward Christian Soldiers" because she (horrors) was once a soldier? I'd've liked to see him tell my 5-foot-tall grandma that "Onward" wouldn't have been her perspective because she was female and note male.

Sermons ignoring god's Fatherhood? Pardon me? Are sermons describing and upholding "God's Fatherhood" preached at the expense of the fact of "God's role as Redeemer"? I bet that's the ticket, I really would bet my tax refund on it.

"People...wonder why the men aren't there--at least not men worth giving a ring to."

Oh, yeah, I heard this time after time after time and time again when I listened to Issues, Etc., on the radio. "Our feminized, effeminate church is driving away the men. Flowers on the altar and sometimes - quelle Horreur - on the floor in front of the pulpit are the equivalent of reverse magnetism for the poor, seeking mens.

No, how about this: Men - those worth giving a riing to and those "not worth" it, in Bayly fans' humble opinions - are repulsed by the preening, smug, self-righteous fellas in front of the church, expositing for 40 minutes and more on Law and not Gospel. Guys want balance, too, Bayly Boys.

Finally, "men worth giving a ring to." I honestly missed that the first time I read the response. It's very obvious that if "men not worth giving a ring to" stay away from church, well, no harm no foul. Didn't need those queerbaits, anyway, did we, now, boys....er, men?

Bayly acolytes are at least honest about it: If their sanctuaries lack men who are not 100% manly men like themselves, it's not a loss.

Here's the thing, and I don't know why it took me years to reach this logical conclusion, but i just did: Men like the Bayly brothers and their fans and Todd Wilken (of Issues, Etc.) don't like flowers nor other "effeminate" things and so they claim that the presence of those are the devil's work, indeed. If they wanted everythign in a sanctuary painted yellow, they would scream that every other color on the spectrum represented evil.

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Ya know, I've known some very manly men who love flowers, babies, kittens and puppies. What makes a manly man is that he's confident in himself. Not conceited confidence, but as in "I'm secure in who I am" confidence. It's the same for what makes a feminine woman. She is confident, and comfortable with who she is.

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So, worship is supposed to be masculine. Women are forbidden from acting like men. Ergo, women are not allowed to participate in worship services? Using basic logic, that seems to be what this whackadoodle is saying.

I have a friend who is super fundie whose husband goes to home church while she and her children stay home. Apparently the man being the spiritual leader for the household means the women and children need not go to church at all.

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Ya know, I've known some very manly men who love flowers, babies, kittens and puppies. What makes a manly man is that he's confident in himself. Not conceited confidence, but as in "I'm secure in who I am" confidence. It's the same for what makes a feminine woman. She is confident, and comfortable with who she is.

That reminds me of something I read about how the opposite of "man" shouldn't be "woman"--the opposite of "man" should be "boy."

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You know, an old family friend of mine is one of the manliest men around by some definitions. Broad-shouldered and muscular, he's smart, a successful doctor, and a passionate athlete and outdoorsman.

It was revealed to me recently that this manly man is also passionate about having sex with other men.

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It surprises me that so many of the men we cover are sensitive about being seen as manly and yet would run screaming if they were actually conscripted into battle.

Uh, yeah. Do we know of any men from these fundie families who actually joined the military? (I know the Gothardites "aren't allowed to"--the fucking pussies--but what about the others??)

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Oh, I can top you guys. Our priest wears long gold, red, lime green, or silver brocade robes depending on the church calendar. He and the sanctuary also are tricked out in some very fine gold, silver, and the occasional precious gems. Our current choir is mostly women with a female director and only 3-4 men who have to take direction from her. I know, we do so love emasculating our men. The only "battle cry" is when a cranky toddler starts to howl. Did I mention that some of our priests have hair so long they wear them in ponytails? :naughty:

Hmm, do we go to the same church? ;)

I'm sensing that someone is a bit insecure with his masculinity. Also, he would lose his mind at my church as we tend to remove all masculine pronouns where possible. Ex: "Good Christian friends rejoice" instead of "Good Christian men rejoice". Also, female priests. Suck on that, Dougie!

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Your Worship service might be effeminate if...

its not full of Manly Dominionists standing in that essential, masculine ball cooling stance. (Just to remind you that they has all the penises)

There are no warlike sounds. (This would include sabre rattling, beating on shields and loud warcries intended to intimidate the enemy. Does not include the whimpering of the needy, displaced, injured and dying - this is obviously a clean, manly decisive war with none of those feminine things like consequences)

The minister does not wear full armour and codpiece. If into early medevial robes of battle he needs hoisted into his pulpit. Indeed you lose points unless hes actually Brian Blessed...

If Dw's list is printed out and handed around at your church, and at least three people are literally burned by the concentrated stupid contained therein

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Ya know, I've known some very manly men who love flowers, babies, kittens and puppies. What makes a manly man is that he's confident in himself. Not conceited confidence, but as in "I'm secure in who I am" confidence. It's the same for what makes a feminine woman. She is confident, and comfortable with who she is.

Yup. My manly man fiance often sends me pictures of cute babies and kittens, and we have often discussed the sexiness of St. Alan. I do not feel that anyone has been horrifically emasculated in the process. :lol:

Maybe Dougie and Dougie want more masculine services so they can have the pleasure of watching all of the displays of manliness. ;)

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Ditto what Shina said. It sounds like your pastor might actually have the ability to get my butt back in a pew. I miss going to church in some ways, but I don't miss grinding my teeth through many of the sermons. I'd like to find a place where that wouldn't be an issue.

If you are ever in the Chicago area, you are welcome to attend.

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