Live from the Swanson Basement-Hunger Games

[dairyfreelife]

Disclaimer: Wording of their statements may not be 100% on the mark, but I did my best to write it down how they said it. I apologize if it’s lightly varied. It’s not intended, but should be very close even if I forget a “the†or “of†or something.

Mix of transcript and some summary because 30+ minutes is too long to write out word for word and because I'm lazy and have other things to do on my day off.

Kevin Swanson (K) and his daughter, Emily (E) discuss the Hunger Games live from the Swanson basement!

Kevin: “As the faith dies, as the culture becomes more cannibalistic, humanistic, extra sensualistic (if this a word?) you name it…the Christian dominated culture is gone!"

Witchcraft and cannibalistic blood suckers did better than the Hunger Games. (Aka Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows and Twilight (whatever the last movie was) ).

Emily: I could feel myself being drawn in and if I hadn’t had you [her dad] there beside me to say look at this…

Kevin and Emily mix: Katniss appears as a good person in the beginning by sacrificing herself for her sister.

Kevin: That’s right. She steps into the place of her sister.

Emily: Her [sic] immediately draws the audience. Oh, she does this good deed and she can do no wrong.

They go into Katniss killing a girl, in the end, by dumping killer bees on her. Apparently this makes her evil. They go into a story about David and Saul and that David could have killed Saul in the same way while Saul slept. Basically, the heroine isn’t a heroine to them. She does things wrong.

Then he goes off into the crazy bin. Persecution ALERT! He goes into a tirade of how this is warming children up as Nazis to kill the Jews and

K: “Americans to killing the Christians, whatever it needs to be to prepare for what will happen in 20-30 years. This story is a great way to prepare children, even Christian children and homeschooled children for the kind of murder we may see in the future.â€

Break from transcript to comment

The government did not write this story, Swanson. No one is getting murdered for real and no one is after you or your children. It’s a fictional book with fictional characters in a fictional dystopian world. Take a breath, do some meditation and listen to calming music. It always helps me when I get anxious.

Back to the transcript:

According to Swanson, the characters are breaking God’s laws and the commandments about murder. It’s against God’s law, all of it!

K: “Christians watching this without their parents, they could be taken into this.â€

E: “Teenagers don’t necessarily have the sort of discernment that a lot of their parents have and they don’t-they don’t look at these movies through the Biblical worldview.â€

More discussion about the Bible view, blah, blah, blah.

E: “I-I even am desensitized to the violence.â€

K: “So they’re eating their popcorn, enjoying their pop and don’t realize they’re being turned into Nazis.†Kevin Laughs lightly.

Next is: Katniss is a pagan! She curses at God! She’s feministic and self-centered too, according to Emily.

Relates to Roman games and the clothing was black, like Nazis. He relates this to Nazis quite a bit. He slams on the religion thing of Kat’s amulet.

Movie uses slogan: “May the gods be with you.†He relates it to Romans. He doesn’t seem to get the other reference there. “May the force gods be with you.â€

E: “If you don’t believe you are created in God’s image, there’s not a reason to look at life as precious.â€

K: “It says the modern man is useless. He has no will to survive. The girl does. It’s true for the modern world. Male [sic] is dying. Females are out there trying to make it happen. …The good guy is a body mutilated, pierced, tattooed homosexual in an immoral culture.â€

E: “As opposed to your manly, chivalrous guy.â€

On the City v Village:

E: “[sic] like dolls.â€

K: “Modern man is nihilistic, no morals, no gender definition whatsoever.â€

Kevin then turns to the good guy’s quote about not being controlled by tyrants to abortion.

K: “As long as no one controls me, I can kill others.â€

He goes into a scenario about a man holding a gun to Emily’s friend, Sarah’s head and telling Sarah to kill Emily, should Sarah do it? If Sarah goes after Emily with the knife, should Emily kill her in return? Answers are all no. He turns it back to Nazi’s again and wonders if other kids understand what’s right when it comes to killing others.

Break

Kevin only sees that people are killing others and turning it into abortion and Godwin’s Law and that they don’t talk about God! There’s an elephant in the room you’re not seeing, Kevin.

Back to the transcript.

He quotes Exodus (sort of) when discussing when we should or shouldn’t kill.

E: “They [teenagers who watch this film] don’t take it [killing] seriously because they don’t…

K: “They don’t believe in God.â€

Random discussion and the Bible and the Hunger Games. Blah, blah, blah. Then Kevin goes back to when you should and shouldn’t murder with an eyebrow-raising statement of God protecting his followers from being murdered.

K: “You say no [to killing someone else when a gun is at your head] and you know what, God could send a meteorite out of the sky

E: “That’s right. I’m trusting God.â€

K: “All things are right to those who follow God according to his word.†(Something close to that anyway was what he said).

He goes into the issue with Satan and Jesus where Satan tells Jesus to do dangerous things and Jesus doesn’t do them because it relates so well. I mean Jesus had a gun to his head and had his life on the line there and all. *eye roll*

He goes back to beginning of the evil, humanistic world after your children and does a shameless book plug. The end.

sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=32712126318

How old is Emily? I’m assuming older teens. In which case, why does she need her daddy to help her decide what’s right and wrong with a movie? Can’t she think for herself? Um, never mind. That’s a rhetorical question.

Anyone who’s read or seen The Hunger Games would be better at explaining what’s wrong with Swanson’s review than I am.

[Cran]

I read the books recently (but I only like the first), but didn't see the film.

From the start, it was clear Katniss did not approve of the Games, neither did the other tributes nor their families (careers apart). They loathe them, and she has qualms about killing the others. In one of the later books, she alludes to the kills never leaving her, her dreaming about them, regretting them, not only in the arena, but every human who died because of her actions (rebellion against the Capitol).

She is placed in a situation where she's forced to kill, she must either die and not only sacrifice herself, but those she has vowed to protect, or kill herself. This can't be cooked down to a simple: It is always better to die than kill. She is responsible for people weaker than herself. Is she to abandon them?

Katniss is the heroine, and she loathes this killing. How can sane people make this into "This plot prepares children to be killer machines!". Completely crazy.

And Nazis? HONESTLY? Doesn't that prick know that the NS-unfirom was brown? Only the SS had black.

[emmiedahl]

I read the books and this guy seems way off about the plot.

Katniss refuses to kill a friend at the end of the first one, basically planning to kill herself instead. There is major fall-out over this and the President basically threatens to kill everyone she loves in the next book if she does not smooth it over. It's not like dying herself is what is at stake. It's her mother, her little sister, childhood friends, a budding romance.

[Deleted03]

it's May the odds be ever in your favor... nothing about gods.....! ?

[Cran]

I puzzled about that, too, and kept silent because it might be different in the movie than in the books.

Curiously enough, in the third or second book, Panem is compared to old Rome: Panem and circenses, bread and games - exactly the concept Katniss rejects.

[mama_bear]

I've read the series and saw the movie today and also feel that he is way off base. Katniss does not want to participate in the killing and does as little as possible to survive. Also, Katniss may be a strong female character but in the books there are also several strong male characters-Katniss seems to go through the most soul searching.

[AnnieC 305]

For me it's two stories. I won't give the first one away, since it gives away the overarching plot, but part of it shows that a person can be simply good in a horrendous, complicated situation, and what that does to the people around her. And I have to point out that religion is not mentioned, so it shows that one can be good without god even in a foxhole.

The second shows a young woman in a horrendous situation ending up with a rip-roaring case of PTSD. If anything it shows the lasting effects of war and killing on the human heart and mind, and shows how bad being a killing machine would be, as opposed to pretty much everything else out there.

What's funny is that when you actually look at the world the GOP/"fundies" desire it would look a lot like the world described in the books. Not the Hunger Games themselves but the oppressed, impoverished Districts and the select, chosen in the Capitol. And I do mean the Christians in the Capitol.

http://onemansblog.com/2011/08/06/chris ... book-page/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/gavon/atheist-t ... ath-threat

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyat ... statement/

http://www.blaghag.com/2011/05/atheist- ... death.html

So given these examples I can't imagine that "fundies" would care about Atheist/Muslim/other faith children in a death match. They might just enjoy the spectacle.

Now, in the movie Pres. Snow does talk about the small, contained spark of hope. I immediately thought of religion and the hope of heaven controlling the masses.

[Conuly]

Kevin's right about one thing - the Christian dominated culture IS gone. I can't think of a single mention of religion, in any light, in any of the three books.

[mirele]

Kevin's right about one thing - the Christian dominated culture IS gone. I can't think of a single mention of religion, in any light, in any of the three books.

You're right. Not only that, I can't think of a single character with a biblical name. The closest is Peeta (which is probably a diminution of Peter). Annie's not a biblical name, but it is very old.

I think I found the lack of religion in the Hunger Games rather disturbing, because it was as if religion had been completely excised, rather than co-opted to serve the Capitol. I wondered why that could be--perhaps the destruction of the previous United States of America had been at the hands of religious fanatics, and over the centuries, the remaining people disavowed religion because it failed. But I can't imagine some "greater belief" hadn't emerged.

Or maybe Suzanne Collins was commenting on American society today. My dad says religion in the USA is like a big river a mile wide and an inch deep--as in not really a whole lot there.

[OohLaLa]

Besides them completely missing the point of the story, I guess I just have a hard time understanding the horror of the Hunger Games, compared to what's in the bible. I can think of many examples off the top of my head regarding genocide, brutal killings, incest, rape, etc., many of which were sanctioned or commanded by god. Not saying the premise of HG isn't disturbing, but you have to see the big picture and the message it's sending. Violence isn't glorified, children killing children isn't glossed over. It is clear that Katniss (and really all the districts) are put in a terrible situation, with impossible ethical choices, and what a tragedy it is.

Even the "villain" of the first book, Cato, is shown at the end to be a victim of the evil that is the Capitol. I don't think anyone would even cheer for his death, it is tragic too.

Anyway, my point being, how can you reconcile hating a book/movie that explores the darkness and aftermath of violence, while pounding your book whose god seems to delight in it? At least in the old testament!

[Conuly]

Wasn't Mary's mother named Anne? And of course Annie can be short for Hannah, which I'm certain IS in the Bible. (It is, right?)

With that said, I didn't find the lack of religion... disturbing, exactly (and yes, I'm saying that like Darth Vader, were you?) but it seems pretty strange to me. Was religion deliberately suppressed at some point between our time and Katniss's time? And if so, why? Abusing it to keep in power is a much more common and much more stable strategy. "Work hard, pay your taxes, don't break the rules or complain as we grind you in the dust, and you'll get the last laugh in heaven, see if you don't! There's pie in the sky for you!"

Even if religious fanatics destroyed the old government, there are a LOT of religions out there and a LOT of denominations. Logically, some of them might have survived. These people don't even seem to have superstitions and, not to put too fine a point on it, superstitions generally linger. And one thing you can trust on is that humans are great at seeing patterns and bad at understanding statistics, two things that just cry out for us to believe in a. gods and b. good or bad omens.

But maybe the author just didn't think much about it one way or another.

[SayNoToMullets]

Kevin's right about one thing - the Christian dominated culture IS gone. I can't think of a single mention of religion, in any light, in any of the three books.

I wasn't surprised by that, really. Considering how many of today's social constructs are obliterated by then, I couldn't see religion sticking around. The Capitol controls everything, from the economy to the media, and contact outside of one's district is essentially cut off, other than the Games. In that kind of environment, I can see religion disappearing within a few generations.

[Kitty]

I never gave much thought to the lack of religion in The Hunger Games. A lot of authors tend to avoid religion, possibly for the best since it takes away from the plot. I took the Hunger Games more as a commentary on the media (ffs, televising kids killing kids? That's by far the worst of reality television) while pointing out the disturbing similarities between American culture and ancient Roman culture... and possibly government. The point is, the people in the Capitol are wealthy and carefree, and are entertained just fine- while the people in the twelve Districts are oppressed and forced to fight each other, and the government gets away with all kinds of heinous shit. The Capitol citizens are too oblivious to the government, while the District citizens are unable to do a whole lot about it.

Personally I think involving religion would have derailed the whole damn story. If I had to give an explanation for the lack of religion in-universe, I'd say it's because Panem probably started off secular out of good intentions, so nobody was compelled to follow a religion, and eventually few people did. Or Panem was originally a theocracy, but the theocratic elements fell by the wayside, and Panem wound up secular. Or that there is religion, and Panem does take advantage of it to some extent, but found the Hunger Games far more effective because of the number of different denominations and whatnot... and it simply has zero bearing on Katniss's life, and/or the plot.

[debrand]

I've noticed that many conservative Christians can not handle any depth or humanity in their ficitional heroes. They wanta bland, perfect character who never does wrong.

They obviously don't understand the depth in their own bible either. David did not spare Saul because the king was in a vulnerable position. David felt that it was wrong to kill the man that god had annoited king so he refused to take Saul's life. However, if David had stumbled upon a sleeping enemy soldier, he might have killed him without remorse. This was a man who cut off a lot of enemy foreskins just to marry Saul's daughter.

K: “You say no [to killing someone else when a gun is at your head] and you know what, God could send a meteorite out of the sky

E: “That’s right. I’m trusting God.â€

K: “All things are right to those who follow God according to his word.†(Something close to that anyway was what he said).

So, god loves American Christians more then the Christians of the past who died for their faith? Do they not understand how egotistical their statement is?

[emmiedahl]

If they read all three books, there is an over-arching theme of human dignity--that the people in the districts deserve more than they are getting. The districts rebel because there is something about people where we always know we deserve more even if no one is telling us. Even without religion.

[Third]

It is easy for people who have never been forced to lay their lives on the line for their faith, for their families to judge those who have even fictional characters.

If she died a lot of people would have died. She felt a lot of responsibility and from a young age she took on a lot of responsibility.

I also think the lack of almost everything we identify as American helps make the whole world created as more alien and different and see how far we can go. The disbelief [by some] in the later books about a society based on everyone voting for their officials because obviously it didn't work before.The things that happen in the second and third book show just how willing some are willing to go to hurt other people. How much would we want to overthrow a government like that.

[MamaJunebug]

I've noticed that many conservative Christians can not handle any depth or humanity in their ficitional heroes. They want a bland, perfect character who never does wrong.

It's working for Poor Sarah and the Moody family book series!!!!

[MamaJunebug]

Haven't listened to the Swanson celllar-cast and don't plan to, but the passage they probably were quoting is Romans 8:28,

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose."

Lutherans taught me that the above means, "Don't lose heart when bad things happen, God can bring good out of every situation and most importantly, God never leaves you." Lutherans also teach that God wants all people to be saved, so that "who have been called" is not an exclusionary, predestinated number.

??? Is that interpretation a far cry from what Swanson et fille were saying, or did they have it the right (Lutheran) way? (I'm laughing here, don't hate me! :D ) I'll leave it to those of you who were courageous enough to give minutes of your life to listen to the conversation to determine.

My only original thought about what's been described is that there is nothing original here: the Dominionist loves to take something successful in the larger culture and show how it's dangerous and misleading.

And if they can't scare their listeners with the contents of the movie, they try to scare them out of the theater. Circa 1994, I had friends who straight-faced told me of somebody who went to the movies, felt a stinging as s/he sat down in the darkened theater, stood up to find an empty syringe taped to the seat with the note, "Ha ha, you have just been infected with the AIDS virus!"

Their pastor [sic] had told them that this was happening across the country, and if they wanted to avoid AIDS-related death, they would stay out of the movie houses! I couldn't believe it, but figured it was easier for the leader to tell them that story, than to actually go to a movie, watch it and analyze its message against his own.

[polabear]

I think in the Hunger Games, the actual Games have taken the place of religion, at least for the rich districts and the capital. Also, the districts wouldn't have resources to support a religious establishment - there isn't anything left over to tithe.

[Terrie]

E: “If you don’t believe you are created in God’s image, there’s not a reason to look at life as precious.â€

This viewpoint has always baffled me. To me, it always seems like if we're made in the image of God, we're just the cheap knockoff.

[Kitty]

I think in the Hunger Games, the actual Games have taken the place of religion, at least for the rich districts and the capital. Also, the districts wouldn't have resources to support a religious establishment - there isn't anything left over to tithe.

^ that too. I'd think that have a whole bunch of religions would make things hairy for the Capitol, especially some forms of Christianity. So it'd be smarter for the Capitol to wield its power, and the Hunger Games, over the Districts and make religion largely unimportant, or turn that into a religion. That's actually the strategy of some totalitarian regimes, religion may have been warped into or ignored/suppressed in favor of state-worship.

I think that's a good in-universe explanation.

[lilwriter85]

It's working for Poor Sarah and the Moody family book series!!!!

Sarah Maxwell's niche audience is definitely the conservative Christians that debrand mentioned. My friend has a sister who is a very conservative Christian and she has gotten to the point where she only likes bland perfect characters. She mostly reads Christian novels and she really doesn't like popular mainstream books. She gave away a copy of The Help that she got as a gift. She also told my friend that she couldn't believe that so many people like The Hunger Games. She said the description grossed her out.

[browngrl]

I'm not a writer but here is what I think would be a basic plot line for the fundie version of the hunger games:

Katniss is a sweet young virgin living at home under the umbrella of her father's supervision. One day he dies in a tragic accident (not at all caused by the lack of care/standards in the mine he was working in). Katniss and her mother and sisters (of course in the fundie version her family's quiver is full) wait for God to provide food. They wait. And wait. And wait. Several children die of starvation (the family celebrates - hooray- the dead children are now angel babies up in heaven with Jesus!!). Katniss is picked as a tribute. She refuses to do anything manly like fighting or thinking or doing anything without the guidance of a Godly man (she also refuses to wear the "fire dress" - too revealing - choosing instead a frumper with sweet little flowers on it). She does pray. ALOT. She is the first tribute killed. Hooray!! now she can also be an angel baby in heaven. Peeta wins and marries a younger sister of Katniss and uses his winnings to feed his new family. The end.

[lilwriter85]

I'm not a writer but here is what I think would be a basic plot line for the fundie version of the hunger games:

Katniss is a sweet young virgin living at home under the umbrella of her father's supervision. One day he dies in a tragic accident (not at all caused by the lack of care/standards in the mine he was working in). Katniss and her mother and sisters (of course in the fundie version her family's quiver is full) wait for God to provide food. They wait. And wait. And wait. Several children die of starvation (the family celebrates - hooray- the dead children are now angel babies up in heaven with Jesus!!). Katniss is picked as a tribute. She refuses to do anything manly like fighting or thinking or doing anything without the guidance of a Godly man (she also refuses to wear the "fire dress" - too revealing - choosing instead a frumper with sweet little flowers on it). She does pray. ALOT. She is the first tribute killed. Hooray!! now she can also be an angel baby in heaven. Peeta wins and marries a younger sister of Katniss and uses his winnings to feed his new family. The end.

I loved reading this. :lol:

[hyperactress23]

I'm just going to put a spoiler warning at the beginning of the post. Don't read it if you don't want spoilers.

They go into Katniss killing a girl, in the end, by dumping killer bees on her. Apparently this makes her evil. They go into a story about David and Saul and that David could have killed Saul in the same way while Saul slept. Basically, the heroine isn’t a heroine to them. She does things wrong.

She doesn't dump the bees on Glimmer in the end. It's actually more of the middle. (And if I remember correctly, she kills the D4 girl in this way as well, but in the movie they kill her off during the bloodbath.) In the end she shoots Cato - a mercy killing. She also kills Marvel after he kills Rue. This does not make her evil. It's like during a war; killing in self-defense is not evil, which is a biblical fact. David may not have killed Saul, but what about Goliath? Also on the evil list for killing are Moses (Exodus 2), Samson (Judges 15), Elijah (1 Kings 18), and Micah (Judges 18), among countless others.

Next is: Katniss is a pagan! She curses at God! She’s feministic and self-centered too, according to Emily.

If by "curses at God" she means that Katniss uses the phrase "Oh my God!", then in the movie, yes, she does. In the books, I don't recall ever seeing that phrase, or any cursing, now that I think of it.

Even if by "feministic" they mean she takes care of herself instead of letting a man take care of her, you can't really call Katniss a feminist. Her dad takes care of her as long as he is alive to do so, and she lets him. When he leaves, yes, she goes out and hunts, which is "manly", but she takes care of a her sister. Isn't childcare a proper role for a sister? And then in the Games she takes care of Rue, also childcare. She takes care of Peeta, a male, when he is sick, nursing him back to health, and then continues to cook for him. She does "disobey" him when she goes to the feast to save his life, so I suppose they term that feminism?

Self-centered? Wow. I don't even know where to begin here. She does what she has to to stay alive, yes, but she isn't even doing it for herself. She has to get home for Prim and her mother. She doesn't want Prim to have to try to go on without her. Katniss is a far cry from self-centered.

Relates to Roman games and the clothing was black, like Nazis. He relates this to Nazis quite a bit. He slams on the religion thing of Kat’s amulet.

Movie uses slogan: “May the gods be with you.†He relates it to Romans. He doesn’t seem to get the other reference there. “May the force gods be with you.â€

As noted above, it's "May the odds be ever in your favor", unless I somehow missed "May the gods be with you".

K: “It says the modern man is useless. He has no will to survive. The girl does. It’s true for the modern world. Male [sic] is dying. Females are out there trying to make it happen. …The good guy is a body mutilated, pierced, tattooed homosexual in an immoral culture.â€

E: “As opposed to your manly, chivalrous guy.â€

What? Man has no will to survive? What was Gale then? Peeta doesn't have faith that he'll survive, but he's one man. The other men we're exposed to have will to survive. Even Haymitch drinks to keep himself surviving; if he had no will to survive he'd kill himself.

And I'm guessing the "good guy" they're referring to is Cinna. In the movie, yes, he has six piercings, but where is the body mutilation or tattoos? In the book, he's described by Katniss as very normal-looking, with only some gold eyeliner in terms of looks she isn't used to. No mutilation, no tattoos, no piercings. If they wanted something to complain about, there is makeup, but that's it, and no comment was made about that? Also, I guess I missed the scene where he was like "Yo, Katniss, I'd like you to meet my boyfriend!", because surely they aren't just going with the assumption that all fashion designers are homosexual? Cinna's sexuality was NEVER mentioned. Ever. Also, while he is a good guy, the good guy they want to portray is Peeta, who is certainly the "manly, chivalrous guy".

How old is Emily? I’m assuming older teens. In which case, why does she need her daddy to help her decide what’s right and wrong with a movie? Can’t she think for herself? Um, never mind. That’s a rhetorical question.

My sister is seventeen, and our parents still make the decision about which movies she's allowed to see. She has no problem with this 98% of the time. I had a problem with pretty much all the time, so I just watched what I wanted and didn't tell them, and they tried to make this decision for me until I moved out in August, and still believe I follow their guidelines, and I'll be twenty tomorrow. (If anyone cares, most of their decisions are based on pluggedinonline.com, which is run by Focus on the Family. This site was actually pretty positive about The Hunger Games, however, and they got the point.)