The Case for Early Marriage

[LadyBlue]

A friend posted this on FB. It's kind of long and I disagree with a lot of it, but thought this bit was interesting. Certainly something fundies are guilty of.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/art ... l?id=84286

The abstinence industry perpetuates a blissful myth; too much is made of the explosively rewarding marital sex life awaiting abstainers. The fact is that God makes no promises of great sex to those who wait. Some experience difficult marriages. Spouses wander. Others cannot conceive children.

[debrand]

A friend posted this on FB. It's kind of long and I disagree with a lot of it, but thought this bit was interesting. Certainly something fundies are guilty of.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/art ... l?id=84286

At the beginning of the article, the author notes that most evangelicals have sex before marriage. His solution is early marriage but I'm uncertain how that would improve divorce rates or sexual satifaction within evangelical marriages.

My solution is to make certain that every one has easy access to birth control and to let adults decide for themselves if they will have sex or not. Of course, they won't listen to me.

He is an example of why many of us believe that evangelicals and fundamentalists are obsessed with sex. If a person decides to abstain, that should be their private decision. That person should worry about their own standing with god and not be concerned with what other people are doing in their private lives.

[nomi]

From what I learned from my family/church I thought that married sex would be wonderful. I was really disappointed on my wedding night when the mediocre, blah sex was still mediocre and blah.

[fluttershies]

At the beginning of the article, the author notes that most evangelicals have sex before marriage. His solution is early marriage but I'm uncertain how that would improve divorce rates or sexual satifaction within evangelical marriages.

My solution is to make certain that every one has easy access to birth control and to let adults decide for themselves if they will have sex or not. Of course, they won't listen to me.

He is an example of why many of us believe that evangelicals and fundamentalists are obsessed with sex. If a person decides to abstain, that should be their private decision. That person should worry about their own standing with god and not be concerned with what other people are doing in their private lives.

Seriously, this. I'm a Christian but I don't see why that means I have to care about everyone else's sex life. I don't. Me not having sex doesn't mean I should stop others from having sex.

[ShadowyOne]

Seriously, this. I'm a Christian but I don't see why that means I have to care about everyone else's sex life. I don't. Me not having sex doesn't mean I should stop others from having sex.

Exactly! But I also feel as though there are two distinct camps of creepy within this: it's one thing for Santorum to want his hands on my uterus, and it's another if my father does.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Marriages made on "I really really REALLY want to bone... if I marry you, we can bone? Awesome let's DO IT!!!" are probably not blessed with the best odds of success.

Call me old fashioned but sex should not be THE overriding #1 reason for marriage, IMHO. It's certainly a FACTOR, maybe even a "if it's not at least on the upper side of decent, a deal-breaker" but you gotta think of other issues. Which means for me, you need to have some other outlets, at least Mr. Hand, so that this "I need to bone" is not overtaking everything else.

I know I've said it on other threads too but once you're in that... mood, so to say, your thoughts are not going to be clear and you can't concentrate on anything or get anything done. The cure in my world? A quick wank. Solves it all. But alas, the fundie world prohibits that...

[The Archivist]

I had sex when I was 17, well before I got married, and IT WAS GREAT. Highly recommended.

Tell your friends.

[marmalade]

I had sex when I was 17, well before I got married, and IT WAS GREAT. Highly recommended.

Tell your friends.

Seconded. Didn't even marry the bloke (I just posted the story earlier today). We dated for a few months about 6-7 years after our first break up and the sex was even better.

Still didn't marry him; I actually met my husband about a month after we decided it we were better off as friends - we had a very passionate relationship.

[Aurora]

I had sex when I was 17, well before I got married, and IT WAS GREAT. Highly recommended.

Tell your friends.

Really? You're lucky. The first time sucked for me. :lol:

bad pun not necessarily intended

[Childless]

Getting married in order to have sex is about the stupidest thing you could ever do. Just do yourself a favor and have out of wedlock sex. It'll save you a lot of frustration and headaches. It's certainly better than jumping into a bad marriage.

I'm one that believes early marriage is a bad idea. Certainly there are some early marriages that last and are happy, but more often than not, an early marriage ends in divorce. It's better to wait until you are financially sound, emotionally ready, and mentally mature before taking the big step of sharing your life with someone. If you can barely get yourself together, how are you going to manage being part of a couple?

[Anise]

Ah, but divorce isn't as sinful as pre-marital sex. Pre-marital sex makes sex horrible for the rest of your life- nothing could be worse. ;)

[alaeangelorum]

I agree with that quote. I've read a Christian forum where people are obsessed with this idea to the extent that they will tell people that if you wait to have sex with your fiance until after you are married it will be *so* much better.... right.

[freejoytoo]

Te fundy-lite girl I know said you should save sex for marriage and it shouldn't be a problem to wait because it's not the most important thing. If it's not the most important thing then why make such a huge thing of waiting for it? Surely it's better to marry someone when you have already established a healthy sexual relationship?

Having said that, I can understand wanting to save sex more than being fanatical about saving your first KISS. Now that's just crazy.

It almost seems that fundies think sex is all or nothing. If you want to wait you're clearly this righteous, well-balanced girl (they don't tend to focus on boys) and if you so much as say you'd rather have sex before marriage then you must be sleeping around with a different man every night!

After my first time I'd hate to imagine it on my wedding night.

[Peas n carrots]

Interesting article, the author raises a good point about the focus on abstinence but makes a LOT of assumptions on why people get married or why people stay single.

[debrand]

As a result, many young adults sense that putting oneself in the trust of another person so soon may be foolish and risky. Many choose to wait out the risk—sometimes for years—to see how a relationship will fare before committing. (We seem to have lost our ability to shame men for such incessant delays.) Consequently, the focus of 20-somethings has become less about building mature relationships and fulfilling responsibilities, and more about enjoying oneself, traveling, and trying on identities and relationships

This statement annoys me for several reasons. First, Christians shouldn't be shaming young men who don't want to marry. You shouldn't marry just because other people expect you to do so. Secnod, why does he think that it is only young men who are delaying marriage. Perhaps he believes that Christian women are sitting around desperately waiting for men to ask for their hand. Traveling, getting to know oneself can be a part of the maturing process. Having fun does not mean that one is mature. Marriage is not a marker of maturity.

1) Economic insecurity: Marrying young can spell poverty, at least temporarily. Yet the mentality that we need to shield young adults from the usual struggles of life by encouraging them to delay marriage until they are financially secure usually rests on an unrealistic standard of living. Good marriages grow through struggles, including economic ones. My wife and I are still fiscal conservatives because of our early days of austerity.

Nevertheless, the economic domain remains an area in which many parents are often able, but frequently unwilling, to assist their children.

My first thought was, fuck you writer. There is nothing wrong with waiting until one is financially secure to marry. My husband and I married when we were not financially ready. It was very, very difficult. Some marriages grow through struggles, not all do. And why take on a problem that you could have avoided? Lots of reasons go into marrying or delaying marriage. There isn't a one size fits all solution. The only reason that he is advising people to marry early is because he is terrified that strangers will have premarital sex.

Guess what? I expect my kids to have some type of financial security before they marry. Although I don't mind helping out, it would be immature to expect your parents to give you a lot of help.

This doesn't sound very compassionate toward marriage—or toward family members. This is, however, a two-way street: many young adults consider it immature or humiliating to rely on others for financial or even social support. They would rather deal with sexual guilt—if they sense any at all—than consider marrying before they think they are ready

It IS immature to marry before you can support yourself. It is also selfish. I have four kids. Should I deny my daughters braces so that I can support their brothers' wives? What about parents saving for retirement? Other people's needs are not as important as Christians not having premarital sex?

[atheistjd]

I actually didn't hate this article, but mostly because I like his realistic take on abstinence and his (very carefully concealed) desire to diminish the emphasis on it in Evangelical-type churches, but not because of his conclusions or assumptions. However, this made me laugh:

Rather, a young age-at-marriage is an indicator of an underlying proclivity for marital problems, the kind most Christian couples learn to avoid or solve without parting.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

ORLY?

Divorce rates among conservative Christians were significantly higher than for other faith groups, and much higher than Atheists and Agnostics experience. (Source: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htmhttp://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_dira.htm)

Also, why is there no emphasis on just NOT SHAMING sexually active/curious teenagers? Why does he believe that desire to have sex = maturity?

Not to mention, for someone who supposedly devotes his life to researching teen sex habits and such, this article is rage-inducingly heteronormative. Oh wait, there are no young, gay evangelicals :roll:

[Antigone]

Eh??? I married Sev quite young, back when I was twenty. I was the one who wanted to wait until Sevy was born, but then I realized it would be nice to have a bit more "security" just in case something happened with Sevy. We had been planning on getting married anyway, we just happened to push up the date by quite... a bit. Sev tells me he was sixteen, on prom night. I tease him and call him "traditional" when he quite isn't. We have beat Sev's first marriage (he married at nineteen, for three years I believe) by a couple of years already. I think I did pretty good for marrying a bit on the young end for reasons that were not for kissing or sex. It's quite superficial, to me, to marry just for those reasons. Heck, Sevy has had her first kiss at three (that doesn't really count, but it's a hell of a cute story!).

Sex habits are something odd to fixate upon. Perhaps someone should delve into the whole fundie/evangelical obsessions with sex and publish an article, maybe even a book, arguing against the whole "first kiss/intercourse at marriage" thing. :::looks at Sev, wonders if he could be conned into writing such an article...for work, of course.. hmmm..:::

[erunerune]

This statement annoys me for several reasons. First, Christians shouldn't be shaming young men who don't want to marry. You shouldn't marry just because other people expect you to do so. Secnod, why does he think that it is only young men who are delaying marriage. Perhaps he believes that Christian women are sitting around desperately waiting for men to ask for their hand. Traveling, getting to know oneself can be a part of the maturing process. Having fun does not mean that one is mature. Marriage is not a marker of maturity.

My first thought was, fuck you writer. There is nothing wrong with waiting until one is financially secure to marry. My husband and I married when we were not financially ready. It was very, very difficult. Some marriages grow through struggles, not all do. And why take on a problem that you could have avoided? Lots of reasons go into marrying or delaying marriage. There isn't a one size fits all solution. The only reason that he is advising people to marry early is because he is terrified that strangers will have premarital sex.

Guess what? I expect my kids to have some type of financial security before they marry. Although I don't mind helping out, it would be immature to expect your parents to give you a lot of help.

It IS immature to marry before you can support yourself. It is also selfish. I have four kids. Should I deny my daughters braces so that I can support their brothers' wives? What about parents saving for retirement? Other people's needs are not as important as Christians not having premarital sex?

+1 on what debrand said (bolded)! Just my opinion, but if you think you are old enough to make the very adult decision to get married, you should have taken the adult steps needed to support yourself (spouse should have done this too obviously). If family members choose to help you financially after you are married, that is their business. However, if a couple got married & felt entitled to external financial support, I would call that a huge red flag regarding their respective maturity levels & not a promising sign for the marriage. Adult decisions = adult responsibilities, which is why I am against unprepared youngsters getting hitched or being encouraged to get hitched.

[atheistjd]

+1 on what debrand said (bolded)! Just my opinion, but if you think you are old enough to make the very adult decision to get married, you should have taken the adult steps needed to support yourself (spouse should have done this too obviously). If family members choose to help you financially after you are married, that is their business. However, if a couple got married & felt entitled to external financial support, I would call that a huge red flag regarding their respective maturity levels & not a promising sign for the marriage. Adult decisions = adult responsibilities, which is why I am against unprepared youngsters getting hitched or being encouraged to get hitched.

Agreed. Most people (at least in my social circle) disagree with me on this as well, but I think you should have to pay for your own wedding if you want to get married... it really helped me and Mr. AJD take another hard look at our finances (we'd had combined finances for ~6 years at that point, but it's always good to reevaluate), examine our priorities, take stock of friends and family and our relationships, prioritize (Paris honeymoon or a DJ? Yeah, no contest...), etc. Call me old-fashioned, but if you aren't able to pick out a set of china (or decide to hell with that and ask for honeymoon money ;) ) or make a guest list without melting into a ball of hot-messness, I'm just not sure you're ready for a lifelong commitment.

To be fair, we support ourselves/paid for the wedding/are paying for grad school ourselves out of necessity, not some maturity super powers, so I can't really say I would choose to be *quite so* financially "independent" (aka poor) if given the opportunity to sponge off of our parents, but I still think financial independence is a HUGE indicator of maturity and stability and getting married before you have that seems to be a recipe for disaster...

[ilovetchotchkes]

+1 on what debrand said (bolded)! Just my opinion, but if you think you are old enough to make the very adult decision to get married, you should have taken the adult steps needed to support yourself (spouse should have done this too obviously). If family members choose to help you financially after you are married, that is their business. However, if a couple got married & felt entitled to external financial support, I would call that a huge red flag regarding their respective maturity levels & not a promising sign for the marriage. Adult decisions = adult responsibilities, which is why I am against unprepared youngsters getting hitched or being encouraged to get hitched.

This this this this THIS.

I was 26 (might have been 25? ) When i got married. I didnt' have a good job but I had a job, and we were living (in sin) on our own with occasional financial help from the future inlaws. (She'd offer. Who am I to refuse when all i've had to eat that week was mac and cheese and ramen). We waited MUCH longer to have a child though. We bought our first house and after a year or so there, decided to try for kids.

We didn't pay for our own wedding. I honestly wanted a low key backyard BBQ thing after a courthouse marriage but my father flipped out and I figured it wasn't worth the fight.

Now my husband and I are having a Jewish wedding (we both converted after we got married) and we're footing THAT bill ALL on our own. My father keeps trying to tell me to have or do certain things and there's a LOT of glee in my voice when I tell him "ok then, how will you be paying for that? "

[atheistjd]

We didn't pay for our own wedding. I honestly wanted a low key backyard BBQ thing after a courthouse marriage but my father flipped out and I figured it wasn't worth the fight.

Yeah - I didn't mean to imply that you're NOT ready necessarily if you don't (we don't know many people who have), but maybe that it helps gauge maturity and compatibility if you do? But I know sometimes you're just not gonna win that fight with the parents... We had a low-key thing because we were both basically willing to have the fight up front and then not deal with them during the nitty gritty decision-making parts :)

edited for riffles...

[erunerune]

In atheistjd's post above, my name got assigned to someone else's words...:)

[atheistjd]

In atheistjd's post above, my name got assigned to someone else's words...:)

Ack - I am so technologically impaired - fixing now :oops:

[ilovetchotchkes]

Yeah - I didn't mean to imply that you're NOT ready necessarily if you don't (we don't know many people who have), but maybe that it helps gauge maturity and compatibility if you do? But I know sometimes you're just not gonna win that fight with the parents... We had a low-key thing because we were both basically willing to have the fight up front and then not deal with them during the nitty gritty decision-making parts :)

[atheistjd]

Yeah - I didn't mean to imply that you're NOT ready necessarily if you don't (we don't know many people who have), but maybe that it helps gauge maturity and compatibility if you do? But I know sometimes you're just not gonna win that fight with the parents... We had a low-key thing because we were both basically willing to have the fight up front and then not deal with them during the nitty gritty decision-making parts :)

Yeah, initially the fight was that they wanted us to get married in the CATHOLIC church. Um. no. I wasn't practicing anymore at that time, and my husband who was raised Lutheran also was not practicing any form of Christianity. So to promise to raise my kids Catholic? not an option. We ended up at a sweet little Unitarian church.