How many of these fundy church leaders have gone to college?

[ladypuglover]

PP professes to be a preacher but what school did he attend to call himself such. Where did Doug Phillips is a tool or his boyfriend attend? Is it legal to just decide I'm a preacher and am leagaly allowed to start a church and marry people and bury them or baptise them? Can I start the church of Free Jinger or will I need college for it?

[Dark Matters]

Hey, as long as you've got a bible and can read it you're good to go.

[NurseNell]

Catholic and Orthodox priests have to have 4 years of college, then 4 years of seminary. Same with Lutheran pastors, Episcopal/Anglican priests. I think Methodist ministers are required to go to college but don't know if it's 4 years, followed by 4 years of seminary. I have a friend who is a Baptist minister, he went to a Baptist seminary but don't know if he needed college before, I don't think so. I think Presbyterian ministers also have both college and seminary.

There are a lot of various independent Baptist churches that probably don't have specific requirements. Same with pentecostal churches.

[Katiebug]

There's an IFB "college" not far from my workplace. They describe their faculty as "godly men and women who are actively involved with the NEBC student body" - boy, those are some qualifications! They're completely unaccredited by any accreditation body, as they feel they shouldn't be subjected to the whims of some secular heathens who wouldn't know a Bachelor's in Biblical Studies if it bit them on the rear. :lol: There's a single college classroom and library, and to my knowledge they also use classrooms in the adjacent K-12 school. They have a tiny dormitory building with a dining hall, but I think there's only at most 30-40 students living there. Students have to go out soul winning for at least 2 hours a week. I see them when I drive over to the BJ's to get marginally less-expensive gas, and feel sorry for those living in the neighborhood who are subjected to regular soul winning attempts.

The K-12 school has the dubious distinction of advertising that their students read in Kindergarten. Um, in the public schools they do that too, they just don't read about Jesus coexisting with dinosaurs. The K-12 also charges "lab fees" for such academically-rigorous high school courses as Typing, Consumer Math, and Algebra II. :roll: Several of the pastoral staff went to Pensacola Christian College and Hyles-Anderson.

The "college" graduates who are male seem to end up trying to plant churches, with varying degrees of success. The female graduates end up becoming pastors' wives.

[marmalade]

Didn't Dougie go to undergrad and law school at UVA? Note that there is no seminary listed. At least Gothard got degrees in Theology from Wheaton College.

Then there's Gil Bates, who appears as a "guest preacher" at a lot of IFB churches, and Boob...we see how well THAT'S worked out. :roll:

[JMarie]

PP professes to be a preacher but what school did he attend to call himself such. Where did Doug Phillips is a tool or his boyfriend attend? Is it legal to just decide I'm a preacher and am leagaly allowed to start a church and marry people and bury them or baptise them? Can I start the church of Free Jinger or will I need college for it?

No college for PP:

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/page2.html

[skrmom]

PP beleives it is a sin to attend college based on the following:

1. The only time college is mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned that a WOMAN dwelled there (Therefore it is negative)

See II Kings 22:14 and II Chron. 34:22. These verses refer to a woman prophetess. However, the reference to college is not colleges as we know them today, but a section of the temple. Ironically, all of PP daughters are named after Biblical prophetesses.

2. He also states college is wong refering to Matthew 23:10 which states: Neither ye be called master, for one is your Master, even Christ.

Colleges grant Master's Degrees-therefore, it is wrong to attend college.

I have several friends with Master's degrees. I do not call them "Master John" or "Master Laurie" Most of my son's teachers have M. Ed. degrees-he called them Mrs. M___ or Mr. Y____. Not master.

[Witsec7]

I recently read that there is one branch of the Baptists that won't hire degreed ministers. It was on that funny ad that was posted a while back.

[alysee]

PP beleives it is a sin to attend college based on the following:

1. The only time college is mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned that a WOMAN dwelled there (Therefore it is negative)

See II Kings 22:14 and II Chron. 34:22. These verses refer to a woman prophetess. However, the reference to college is not colleges as we know them today, but a section of the temple. Ironically, all of PP daughters are named after Biblical prophetesses.

2. He also states college is wong refering to Matthew 23:10 which states: Neither ye be called master, for one is your Master, even Christ.

Colleges grant Master's Degrees-therefore, it is wrong to attend college.

I have several friends with Master's degrees. I do not call them "Master John" or "Master Laurie" Most of my son's teachers have M. Ed. degrees-he called them Mrs. M___ or Mr. Y____. Not master.

The stupid! It hurts so much!

[hoipolloi]

Dougie has no degree or training in theology and/or pastoral care that I've heard about. He does, OTOH, have an undergraduate degree from William & Mary, and his law degree is from George Mason (chef-missouri.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=1:25th-annual-christian-home-educators-fellowship&id=14:past-speakers&Itemid=4).

What's hugely ironic is that Dougie met his wife, the lovely Be-All, at W & M since she went there, too, and graduated, as far as I know. Of course, will Dougie & Be_All allow their daughters the same opportunities that they or Dougie's sisters have all had for undergraduate & graduate school?

[Kitty]

I thought PP attended Hyles-Anderson, but dropped out halfway through senior year. Probably flunked out or something, or got a serious case of "OH FUCK WHAT AM I GOING TO DO AFTER GRADUATION I'M SO FUCKED ;_;"

Dougie did attend college, though his bio on the VF site doesn't say where. He did go to George Mason School of Law, though I'm not sure if he also went there for his undergrad too (probably not).

Gil Bates went to college, not sure where.

Jim Bob Duggar did not go to college.

Bill Gothard went to Wheaton College and got an M.A. in Christian education.

Fucking hypocrites, all of them, except Jim Bob.

[Lostie]

PP beleives it is a sin to attend college based on the following:

1. The only time college is mentioned in the Bible, it is mentioned that a WOMAN dwelled there (Therefore it is negative)

See II Kings 22:14 and II Chron. 34:22. These verses refer to a woman prophetess. However, the reference to college is not colleges as we know them today, but a section of the temple. Ironically, all of PP daughters are named after Biblical prophetesses.

2. He also states college is wong refering to Matthew 23:10 which states: Neither ye be called master, for one is your Master, even Christ.

Colleges grant Master's Degrees-therefore, it is wrong to attend college.

I have several friends with Master's degrees. I do not call them "Master John" or "Master Laurie" Most of my son's teachers have M. Ed. degrees-he called them Mrs. M___ or Mr. Y____. Not master.

I'm pretty sure the only titles you really get in school without being in a pariticular program is Doctor when you get a doctorate.

In other news, now I want to get my Master's just so I can make people call me Master Lostie :lol:

[NurseNell]

Dougie has no degree or training in theology and/or pastoral care that I've heard about. He does, OTOH, have an undergraduate degree from William & Mary, and his law degree is from George Mason (chef-missouri.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&catid=1:25th-annual-christian-home-educators-fellowship&id=14:past-speakers&Itemid=4).

What's hugely ironic is that Dougie met his wife, the lovely Be-All, at W & M since she went there, too, and graduated, as far as I know. Of course, will Dougie & Be_All allow their daughters the same opportunities that they or Dougie's sisters have all had for undergraduate & graduate school?

Isn't his mother Catholic. I know his brother is. And his father was Jewish, right? Or am I thinking of someone else?

[AmyP]

PP professes to be a preacher but what school did he attend to call himself such. Where did Doug Phillips is a tool or his boyfriend attend? Is it legal to just decide I'm a preacher and am leagaly allowed to start a church and marry people and bury them or baptise them? Can I start the church of Free Jinger or will I need college for it?

Presbyterian churches require an advanced degree that includes proficiency in Greek and Hebrew, several internships, an extensive testing process and approval by the session for the local Presbytery. It is a lengthy process and requires alot of school.

[Seven Severn]

I'm pretty sure the only titles you really get in school without being in a pariticular program is Doctor when you get a doctorate.

In other news, now I want to get my Master's just so I can make people call me Master Lostie :lol:

I have a Master's. From now on I demand to be called Master Seven.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I thought PP attended Hyles-Anderson, but dropped out halfway through senior year. Probably flunked out or something, or got a serious case of "OH FUCK WHAT AM I GOING TO DO AFTER GRADUATION I'M SO FUCKED ;_;"

Dougie did attend college, though his bio on the VF site doesn't say where. He did go to George Mason School of Law, though I'm not sure if he also went there for his undergrad too (probably not).

Gil Bates went to college, not sure where.

Jim Bob Duggar did not go to college.

Bill Gothard went to Wheaton College and got an M.A. in Christian education.

Fucking hypocrites, all of them, except Jim Bob.

So if Gil Bates had a Masters Degree...we can call him..... :angelic-red:

[hoipolloi]

Isn't his mother Catholic. I know his brother is. And his father was Jewish, right? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Yes to all. Howard was Jewish through his time at Harvard University but converted to Christianity (reportedly by Billy Graham).

Here is a comment by Howard on home-schooling (from howardphillips.com/):

Recently I was asked "If you were going to homeschool your own children today, what curriculum and method would you choose?".

I am, in fact, helping to homeschool four of my grandchildren, and my method is very simple: a) I share life experiences with them, b) I give them books to read which I think are of particular value and importance, c) I ask them to write reports on each of those books, d) I emphasize vocabulary and grammar, et cetera. So far, each of them is doing very well on their College Board tests and college admissions.

My youngest son, Sam, was homeschooled, even while he resided in his mother’s womb, and he was accepted at every college to which he applied, including Hampden-Sydney, William and Mary, Virginia Military Institute, Christendom College, and The Citadel. In most cases, he was offered scholarships.

We had no fixed curriculum, but we made sure he was well versed in the Constitution, the Bible, current events, history, et cetera.

You also ask "If you were going to invest in career education today, where would you place a bet on demand for the future? What skills would you develop in order to be a viable worker in the economy of the future?".

My answer is very simple. There will always be a demand for integrity, energy, as well as verbal and written communication skills.

Good men are hard to find, and they usually will have no problem whatsoever in finding suitable opportunities.

Will have to look for relevant citations on les Phillips and W & M.

[salsa]

United Methodist pastors have a couple different approaches: to be a fully ordained pastor (either Order of the Elder or Order of Deacon), one has a 4-year degree in any major and then attends seminary for 3 years and earns either an M.Div. (what Elders typically go for) or MCE or MSM (what Deacons typically go for - Master of Christian Education, Master of Sacred Music, and such). To be a licensed local pastor, one only must have a high school diploma (though that rarely happens) and attends a Licensing school crash course, and then periodic education events. Most who go the licensing route are 2nd-career people who have degrees but, for whatever reason, find it impractical to attend seminary. They often serve churches only part time while maintaining work in their first career. Hey, we've all known folks who've earned doctorates who are complete nincompoops. Just because you have a highfalootin' degree doesn't mean you have the sense God gave a turnip and even good ol' boys and hometown girls can make wonderful pastors.

That said, education is very important for United Methodist clergy and if a candidate was not able to do the academic work necessary, s/he would not be approved. That even goes for the licensed pastors. They don't let them go off on hare-brained tangents and when someone tries to be hare-brained, they are removed from their ministries.

Licensing Candidates are also sponsored by a local church, examined and interviewed by a board, and are under supervision.

My opinion is that education and a trained and disciplined mind is essential. The lack of such in the Christian church is why this site even came about. and I sure am enjoying it. :) But even if there is little education, an agency to oversee the pastors is very helpful.

There are other Methodist traditions and, as far as I know, education is the preferred route and oversight of new pastors (or less-educated ones) is the rule, but I know less about those.

[hoipolloi]

Here is Dougie, in December 2004, waxing nostalgic about his college days (visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/2004/12/945/):

...Bill [Potter] and I met about twenty years ago when I was attending college and a Presbyterian church in Williamsburg, Virginia, where he was serving as an elder. He and his wife Leslie have seven children: Davis, Dabney, Electa, Beall, Jackson, Lydia, Claire, and Brandon.

Until just about a month ago, Bill lived on an estate in Charles City County, Virginia, which dates back to 1630. It was the location of both Revolutionary and Civil War battles, and the trenches are still visible. Bill’s home was always a delight to visit, not merely for the great company, but also for the wall-to-wall books numbering in the thousands upon thousands.

Incredibly principled in his theology and history, Bill was the top Ph.D. candidate with high ranking grades at the College of William and Mary, but was denied his Ph.D. by the Marxist history chairman (a former “Weatherman†radical at the University of Wisconsin) because of his overt Christian and Southern perspective on history.

My own studies focused on American studies and philosophy of music, but I was able to sit under some of the same history professors as Bill. The history department was a real enigma, being divided between old south historians and Marxist revolutionaries. A few of these professors were reasonable men, and very distinguished historians in their own right, including Ludwell Johnson and the Marxist-turned-Christian, Eugene Genovese.

[GenerationCedarchip]

Most of the reformed crowd have at least undergrad degrees. In order to be ordained, one would need an advanced degree, and education is actually quite prized in reformed circles. For a school that's really not all that conservative, William & Mary has turned out more then a few reformed fundies(As others mentioned, Dougie and Beall went there. Bill Potter the almost PhD. also attended though he didn't get his degree). I've always wondered about that. Many of the leaders on the fundie farm where I grew up went to W&M, and some went to UVA for various things.

A couple others I know of:

James McDonald has an engineering degree from Idaho

Joseph Morecraft (Mr. "Read Calvin") went to King College, as did Jennie Chancey.

[DomWackTroll]

Tim Bayly has a degree in history from the University of Wisconsin. And believe it or not, he fit right in at Madison back in those days (the Seventies). Then he got a Master of Divinity degree from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in 1983.

[divadivine]

I thought PP attended Hyles-Anderson, but dropped out halfway through senior year. Probably flunked out or something, or got a serious case of "OH FUCK WHAT AM I GOING TO DO AFTER GRADUATION I'M SO FUCKED ;_;"

Dougie did attend college, though his bio on the VF site doesn't say where. He did go to George Mason School of Law, though I'm not sure if he also went there for his undergrad too (probably not).

Gil Bates went to college, not sure where.

Jim Bob Duggar did not go to college.

Bill Gothard went to Wheaton College and got an M.A. in Christian education.

Fucking hypocrites, all of them, except Jim Bob.

I don't think Boob would have been smart enough to get into any college or university. I don't think Shiloh Christian School was really turning out top notch scholars back in those days. Also, Boob wanted to marry J'Mullet so he could have sweet, sweet fellowship with her.

[JMarie]

I thought PP attended Hyles-Anderson, but dropped out halfway through senior year. Probably flunked out or something, or got a serious case of "OH FUCK WHAT AM I GOING TO DO AFTER GRADUATION I'M SO FUCKED ;_;"

Dougie did attend college, though his bio on the VF site doesn't say where. He did go to George Mason School of Law, though I'm not sure if he also went there for his undergrad too (probably not).

Gil Bates went to college, not sure where.

Jim Bob Duggar did not go to college.

Bill Gothard went to Wheaton College and got an M.A. in Christian education.

Fucking hypocrites, all of them, except Jim Bob.

My bad, PP did go to college, but chose not to graduate.

http://stevenandersonfamily.blogspot.co ... nswer.html

We lived in California for the first three years on our marriage. We didn't have much money, but we loved our baby son, and then were thrilled to have another baby boy in February of 2003, Isaac. My husband had told me all along that he wanted to be a pastor or a missionary, and decided to go to Bible college in Indiana. We arrived there on the exact day of our third wedding anniversary, in August 2003. At the time, Solomon was not quite 2 years old, and Isaac was 6 months old. We lived there until December of 2005, and had another baby (John) in December of 2004. In those 2 1/2 years, my husband had almost completely finished his 4-year degree in pastoral theology, but after much thought, prayer, and consulting with our old pastor back in California my husband decided not to finish his degree because the doctrine and standards at the college were deteriorating so quickly. While in college, my husband continued working in the fire/security alarm business, and when we moved to Arizona that company kept him on to expand their business here in the Western States. We started the church in Tempe on Christmas Day of 2005.

Ouch, my head hurts from reading about so much bitterness about everything.

[snarkbillie]

My grandfather was an ordained pastor in the Southern Baptist church. He quit school in 6th grade. There are no requirements to be a minister other than what the church decides. It's not like being a doctor or a lawyer, there's not any regulating agency. I can become an ordained minister online if I pay enough money and have a printer.

[PennySycamore]

Gil and Kelly Bates went to the Southern Baptist affiliated Anderson College and transferred to Carson Newman College in northeastern Tennesse. Carson Newman is also a Baptist school. Anderson was a junior college when the Bateses went there necessitating transfer after 2 years.