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chiccy

Sister Wives upcoming season

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gilora

I too like the Browns more than the Duggars, but that isn't saying much. I also don't have a problem with consenting adults engaging in "alternative" living arrangements.

What bothers me is my belief that the Browns are the sanitized faces of the AUB much as the Duggars are the sanitized faces of ATI. There's a reason the Browns' faith is not featured on the show.

Polygamy as practiiced by "fundamentalist Mormons" is an extreme form of patriarchy. Look what Kody, as the priesthood holder, did to this family. Even Janelle, who is clearly the smartest of the bunch, went along with the move to Vegas. When Christine protested, Kody basically told her she didn't have a choice. As far as we know, there's no talk of going back to Utah even though the kids are miserable, nobody has a job and Hunter may need therapy.

Yes, the kids are less sheltered and can speak their minds, but when it comes down to it, Kody has all the power.

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pomology
I too like the Browns more than the Duggars, but that isn't saying much. I also don't have a problem with consenting adults engaging in "alternative" living arrangements.

What bothers me is the belief that the Browns are the sanitized faces of the AUB much as the Duggars are the sanitized faces of ATI. There's a reason the Browns' faith is not featured on the show.

Polygamy as practiiced by "fundamentalist Mormons" is an extreme form of patriarchy. Look what Kody, as the priesthood holder, did to this family. Even Janelle, who is clearly the smartest of the bunch, went along with the move to Vegas. When Christine protested, Kody basically told her she didn't have a choice. As far as we know, there's no talk of going back to Utah even though the kids are miserable, nobody has a job and Hunter may need therapy.

Yes, the kids are less sheltered and can speak their minds, but when it comes down to it, Kody has all the power.

Yes, but the kids not being completely afraid of the outside world should they ever want to escape Kody's power.

As you said, it's not saying much, but these kid won't be Razing Ruth, taking remedial classes to be able to go to college and they won't have to overcome a mindset that would cause them to have knee jerk rejection of most people.

I completely disliked Kody and think that he is a patriarchal, womanizing douchebag, but I like his kids. Hunter may need therapy, but at least he's allowed to express that he is unhappy. His kids may be miserable and pine for Utah, but at least they get to visit their friends back home and can count down the years until they're 18 and can go back to go to college.

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chiccy
I too like the Browns more than the Duggars, but that isn't saying much. I also don't have a problem with consenting adults engaging in "alternative" living arrangements.

What bothers me is my belief that the Browns are the sanitized faces of the AUB much as the Duggars are the sanitized faces of ATI. There's a reason the Browns' faith is not featured on the show.

Polygamy as practiiced by "fundamentalist Mormons" is an extreme form of patriarchy. Look what Kody, as the priesthood holder, did to this family. Even Janelle, who is clearly the smartest of the bunch, went along with the move to Vegas. When Christine protested, Kody basically told her she didn't have a choice. As far as we know, there's no talk of going back to Utah even though the kids are miserable, nobody has a job and Hunter may need therapy.

Yes, the kids are less sheltered and can speak their minds, but when it comes down to it, Kody has all the power.

It is definitely pure patriarchy. Robyn especially plays up that aspect of it, and I think Kody adores her for it. When they were moving and everyone was upset, Robyn calmly explained to the cameras how "Kody is like the captain of a ship and we all have to trust his judgment." Also, the stupid graphic--of 4 female symbols hanging on a male symbol like keys on a keyring--is a great illustration of how this is nothing but patriarchy in its distilled form. I do believe that polygyny is first and foremost about men's sexual fantasies and egos. If you're living polyamorously and acknowledging it as kink, that's one thing; but to call it "religion" and "what God wants" is deeply deceptive and disingenuous and messes with the minds and hearts of women.

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Tator Tot Tubby

Sister Wives annoys me mainly because when I tell someone that I am into polyamory (specifically polyfidelity), they immediately associate me with polygamists... Also I feel like everyone in that family is unhappy. The first 3 wives seem tired and annoyed, the new one is exhausted from trying so hard to please everyone, the kids are suffering because they have no idea of what "normal" looks like, and the dad is stressed because he is the one making decisions for such a large group of people. He'd never admit that though, because he likes being the one in charge..... it's just a bad system. I agree that adults should be allowed to do whatever they want but I don't know if a polygamous house is the best one to raise a child in.

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Haligh the Liar

I despise Kody- he is an immature, selfish, man child who wields power not because he is competant or deserving, but because he has the all powerful penis of patriarchy. His unilateral choices have made his children miserable and 3/4 of his wives unhappy.

That said, I do really like Christine and Janelle, and the kids as well. Though they were born and raised in a non-egalitarian patriarchal environment, they have been exposed to the real world- non polygamous households, non Mormon acquaintances, choosing their own clothes and styles and entertainment, and speaking their minds. Despite their idiot father yanking them away from everything they have ever known while spouting his dumbassery, I think they are in a good position to live a lifestyle of their choosing, both because they are able to do so, and because their parents probably won't shun them. I can't say the same for the Duggars.

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daharyn

I go back and forth on Sister Wives. I like the show (love Christine!), because I think "family" is an open-ended concept, one that can have many variations. I'm polyamorous, and I do hope to eventually raise children in a family of more than two adults. (Now, unlike Tater Tot Tubby, all of the kids I've met from such situations are well-adjusted and chill. And the ones who are adults themselves now are often monogamists... which is neither here nor there, just that in my experience raising a kid in a poly environment doesn't necessarily skew their sense of normal. Rather it frees them to decide what is right for themselves.) But I agree with the comments about how their faith isn't highly featured... I think that if I knew more about it, I'd run away screaming. And honestly, the way they treat the teen girls of the family with regards to modesty really has gotten my back up. It's Vegas, I'm sure it's warm out--if a teenage girl wants to wear a strappy tank top, she should be able to wear a goddamn strappy tank top without her father freaking out about the "message" she's sending to boys. (Or was it Robyn who commented about how "they don't know what they're telling young men when they dress this way"? I can't remember.)

Moral of Sister Wives: Even shiny patriarchy is still patriarchy. What if one of the girls (Aspyn's the most likely candidate) wants to go to a college that isn't Daddy-approved? Major in something Daddy-approved? Meet and date and possibly marry someone who isn't Daddy-approved? What would happen if they started defying Kody's decisions--not just on the day-to-day stuff, but on the life experience stuff?

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Morton Fan

Just saw these pictures of Kody and Robyn (and Solomon) taken at a mall in Utah on a Mormon blog I read:

3.bp.blogspot.com/-6N2_AwfOwPA/T38fjSKk6yI/AAAAAAAAWlw/WwE0d2gMJro/s1600/IMG_1155.jpg

1.bp.blogspot.com/-OyHobv3WomY/T38fmwoJQ-I/AAAAAAAAWl4/CjDeNKFaLX8/s1600/IMG_1156.jpg

(Sorry if I linked the pics wrong; this is my first time posting a link on the new board.)

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tacky

I watch. I like Janelle the best and Meri is okay too. Christine and Robyn both annoy me. Kody is the biggest douche around but I guess they kind of need him for the show. The oldest boy (cannot remember his name right now) is a little self-righteous and a bit of a Kody-clone but in general I find the kids to be very normal and likeable and surprisingly well adjusted.

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sassyNoz47
Just saw these pictures of Kody and Robyn (and Solomon) taken at a mall in Utah on a Mormon blog I read:

3.bp.blogspot.com/-6N2_AwfOwPA/T38fjSKk6yI/AAAAAAAAWlw/WwE0d2gMJro/s1600/IMG_1155.jpg

1.bp.blogspot.com/-OyHobv3WomY/T38fmwoJQ-I/AAAAAAAAWl4/CjDeNKFaLX8/s1600/IMG_1156.jpg

(Sorry if I linked the pics wrong; this is my first time posting a link on the new board.)

it almost looks like Meri is with them to..Robyn is in jeans with arms crossed in front right?

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gustava

it almost looks like Meri is with them to..Robyn is in jeans with arms crossed in front right?

Why are they in Utah?

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mockingbird
What? No one else is picking wife #3 (Christine) as their least favourite?? I find her way more obnoxious than robin! I think christine is someone who likes to pretend to "keep sweet" but is really a passive aggressive bitch.

I find Meri and Janelle th most likable.

Haha no I hate Christine. I was trying to remember if it was her or Jenelle that I hated. I think it's Christine.

I think Robyn is just trying way too hard to be liked and seems to kind-of be in everyone's way. Robyn is annoying but Christine just comes across as yeah... a bitch. I do like Meri.

And I do agree about the kids. I like the kids and I love that they actually get to have opinions.

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lilith

The Browns have been carefully chosen to be the "acceptable" face of mormon fundamentalism.

Ex members of their church have stated that it is in no way normal or accepted for a family to be that liberal. The norm is skirts only, education at a church school, cultural isolation and extreme patriarchy.

The AUB (their church) is probably the most progressive of the fundamentalist groups, but the Browns are in no way the norm and have been chosen as part of the crusade to legalize polygamy with the intention of making it look more mainstream and undo some of the damage done by the FLDS.

That said, I do find Janelle, Christine and some of the kids, Madison especially, very likable. I think they are sincere in their beliefs, although it seems to me that Christine isn't always comfortable with their lifestyle being liberalised. She used to home school all the children, and she seems very nervous about them being exposed to public schools.

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Tator Tot Tubby
I go back and forth on Sister Wives. I like the show (love Christine!), because I think "family" is an open-ended concept, one that can have many variations. I'm polyamorous, and I do hope to eventually raise children in a family of more than two adults. (Now, unlike Tater Tot Tubby, all of the kids I've met from such situations are well-adjusted and chill. And the ones who are adults themselves now are often monogamists... which is neither here nor there, just that in my experience raising a kid in a poly environment doesn't necessarily skew their sense of normal. Rather it frees them to decide what is right for themselves.) But I agree with the comments about how their faith isn't highly featured... I think that if I knew more about it, I'd run away screaming. And honestly, the way they treat the teen girls of the family with regards to modesty really has gotten my back up. It's Vegas, I'm sure it's warm out--if a teenage girl wants to wear a strappy tank top, she should be able to wear a goddamn strappy tank top without her father freaking out about the "message" she's sending to boys. (Or was it Robyn who commented about how "they don't know what they're telling young men when they dress this way"? I can't remember.)

Moral of Sister Wives: Even shiny patriarchy is still patriarchy. What if one of the girls (Aspyn's the most likely candidate) wants to go to a college that isn't Daddy-approved? Major in something Daddy-approved? Meet and date and possibly marry someone who isn't Daddy-approved? What would happen if they started defying Kody's decisions--not just on the day-to-day stuff, but on the life experience stuff?

I think I phrased what I said badly and I just want to clarify. I was debating if it was healthy for the kids to grow up in an environment that was so patriarchal and revolved mainly around one person. I too want to raise my children in a home with more than two adults but I want it to be one where the adults are all committed to one another and respected as equals. And the sheer number of children seems a bit worrying at times. I think it would be easy for someone to get lost in the fold. I'm sorry if I offended you.

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silverspoons

Why are they in Utah?

They are back inUtah all the time. The older kids and the wives. Meri and Christine still have family near their old Lehi home and the kids are still in touch with their friends. My MIL died lastyear and I had t drive by thier Lehi house while she was on hospice. The old house is clearly being lived in and the Las Vegas cars were outisde several times. I saw several of the kids when I drove by. They certainly did not have to "flee" and go back comfortably anytime they want.

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silverspoons
Visualizing an episode of Wife Swap with the Duggars and the Browns. I know it would never happen I just think I would be glued to the TV set if it did.

What I find sad is that on multiple occassions Meri (and her daughter Mariah) have said they would love to met the Duggars. They admit they are big fans and think it would be geat to meet a large family. It is nice that Meri allows her child to watch tv shows that feature different viewpoints and that they would be excited to meet people with different views.

Then we have the Duggars who would never want to have their kids meet Kody and the gang. Unless it was totally forced by TLC for a promo (but I doubt TLC would do this) JB would not allow his kids to watch Sister Wives or meet them.

I dislike the welfare fraud, bankrupcies, and other aspects of the Browns but I do feel alot better about the them letting their kids see the alot more of the world then the Duggars and make more of their own choices.

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gilora

If they're visiting Utah frequently that just provides more support for the notion that there was no reason for the move to Vegas. The move was most likely done for legal reasons -- to give them the ability to claim "harm" as the reslt of Utah's polygamy law. I find that disturbing -sacrificing your family's happiness to challenge a law that was only being enforced in cases of abuses (underage marriage, welfare fraud, etc.) It makes me wonder what is going on between the Browns and the rest of the AUB.

I give Kody some credit for his stance that the kids are free to live their own lives once they turn 18. However, Kody was not born into the AUB -- he and Janelle converted. I don't think the show would be nearly as palatable with a priesthood holder born and raised in the AUB.

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snarkbillie
I give Kody some credit for his stance that the kids are free to live their own lives once they turn 18. However, Kody was not born into the AUB -- he and Janelle converted. I don't think the show would be nearly as palatable with a priesthood holder born and raised in the AUB.

They say that the kids can do what they want out of one side of their mouth and then fret about whether or not they'll do the "right" thing and be AUB when they grow up out of the other side. If they really were going to let the kids decide why all the hullabaloo about whether or not they can go to the church that was "full of sharks" and the fretting about their new friends? If they can do what they want when they're 18 why are they still being so restricted at 16/17?

My kids get more and more freedom as they get older, there's not something magic about an 18th birthday that turns them from kids into adults.

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DarkAnts
The Browns have been carefully chosen to be the "acceptable" face of mormon fundamentalism.

Ex members of their church have stated that it is in no way normal or accepted for a family to be that liberal. The norm is skirts only, education at a church school, cultural isolation and extreme patriarchy.

The AUB (their church) is probably the most progressive of the fundamentalist groups, but the Browns are in no way the norm and have been chosen as part of the crusade to legalize polygamy with the intention of making it look more mainstream and undo some of the damage done by the FLDS.

That said, I do find Janelle, Christine and some of the kids, Madison especially, very likable. I think they are sincere in their beliefs, although it seems to me that Christine isn't always comfortable with their lifestyle being liberalised. She used to home school all the children, and she seems very nervous about them being exposed to public schools.

The AUB did not want the Browns to do the show. Kody did not let them know about until after the contracts were signed. I have often wondered if they left Utah because of all the pressure they were getting from the AUB to stop doing the show.

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daharyn

I think I phrased what I said badly and I just want to clarify. I was debating if it was healthy for the kids to grow up in an environment that was so patriarchal and revolved mainly around one person. I too want to raise my children in a home with more than two adults but I want it to be one where the adults are all committed to one another and respected as equals. And the sheer number of children seems a bit worrying at times. I think it would be easy for someone to get lost in the fold. I'm sorry if I offended you.

Oh, I wasn't in any way offended; I think I just misunderstood you? I agree with you about the sheer number of children in the Brown households; I was glad when they moved into separate homes, because it seemed like some of the ones in the middle might get more attention that way. All of the acting out that's happening from these kids on the show is in some ways a reaction to major upheavals in their lives--changes over which they had no control.

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chiccy
If they're visiting Utah frequently that just provides more support for the notion that there was no reason for the move to Vegas. The move was most likely done for legal reasons -- to give them the ability to claim "harm" as the reslt of Utah's polygamy law. I find that disturbing -sacrificing your family's happiness to challenge a law that was only being enforced in cases of abuses (underage marriage, welfare fraud, etc.)

This is a really good point. I'm now convinced that they actually moved to further their lawsuit; if that's true--and it wasn't to avoid actual persecution--then shame on Kody. That move was so hard on the wives and kids. Hunter especially seems to have serious depression as a result of the move. Christine also had to start antidepressants. Pulling the kids in particular away from their lives and schools for the sake of an egocentric lawsuit with no chance of succeeding? Dumb, self-centered, and exactly the kind of decision that a good patriarch does not make. :cry:

What I find sad is that on multiple occassions Meri (and her daughter Mariah) have said they would love to met the Duggars. They admit they are big fans and think it would be geat to meet a large family. It is nice that Meri allows her child to watch tv shows that feature different viewpoints and that they would be excited to meet people with different views.

Then we have the Duggars who would never want to have their kids meet Kody and the gang. Unless it was totally forced by TLC for a promo (but I doubt TLC would do this) JB would not allow his kids to watch Sister Wives or meet them.

I dislike the welfare fraud, bankrupcies, and other aspects of the Browns but I do feel alot better about the them letting their kids see the alot more of the world then the Duggars and make more of their own choices.

Yeah, that makes me sad too. I like Meri and Mariah the best of all of them. If the Duggars are true Christians they should "love the sinner, hate the sin" and go ahead and be civil to the Browns. It is true that the Browns seem much more tolerant than the Duggars. It is kind of heartbreaking that the Browns' attempt to reach out would be rebuffed.

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Librul
the all powerful penis of patriarchy

Just had to quote this. Wish it was my username.....

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