The moment that made you think 'these people are mental'

[TinyDancer87]

The trip to the creation museum

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Start around the 3 minute mark and you can see the whole shebang: Michelle's baby voice, Josiah being Smuggar Jr, and their ADULT children struggling to explain why they believe what they claim to believe. Followed by some great snark from the lovely citizens of Carrboro, NC :) The older kids had absolutely no explanation for why their beliefs were right, except "Because the bible says." Before that I thought they were weird, but I hadn't realized what a serious disservice they were doing to their children's educations and their futures.

It was this for me. Do you remember Nicole Kidman's Stepford Wives movie? Jana had this glazed over look with a plastered smile, all the while explaining that the earth was 6000 years old. It was CREEPY. I felt like I was watching a person under hypnosis.

Another moment was when JoyAnna covered the television because of a "defrauding" woman, but couldn't explain what defrauding was or why she was required to hide it from boys. It's just so completely evident that these children aren't given any explination as to why they do things. They are supposed to drink the coolaid only because "mommy and daddy says so". And you better smile while drinking it!

[pastaswife]

1. When they cornered Jana and asked if she'd save her first kiss for marriage. She said she would and hemmed and hawed, occasionally spitting out lines that had clearly been drilled into her brain. It seems ridiculous they'd expect her to believe something she can't even validate in her own words.

2. When Michelle had one of the boys I think, and the first thing she did once he was out was thank God, it weirded me out.

[singsingsing]

The insane exploitation of Michelle's miscarriage. When I first found out about the Duggars I thought they must be crazy cult members or something, but then I watched the show and got sucked into the whole, "They're so nice! They're raising their children right!" thing. I didn't agree with most of their beliefs, but I could write that off. There would be things here and there that would bother me, but they could always be waved away. I had no idea about Gothard, ATI, or any of that until I started reading here. When Jason(?) had his accident and they all stood around filming it, that almost did it for me. But the way they treated the miscarriage, especially filming them finding out, and then filming them telling the kids, and the giant memorial service... that was it.

Personally I think Michelle and Jim Bob were very young and naive and got sucked into the whole Gothard thing, and they're still emotionally stunted at the age they married. They act like they're the authority on how to live your life, but they're really still just a couple of gullible teenagers.

[CanadianHippie]

The first time I head the girls aren't allowed to wear anything but skirts or dresses...It all just went down hill from there.

[Cannelle]

When I saw TLC had a special called 14 Kids & Counting."

That. I watched that special over and over again. It was so horrible that I couldn't look away, and I made everyone I knew watch it with me so they could share in my horror.

[Gilka]

I always thought they were mental, ever since a friend sent me the link to an article about the family when the dad was running for office, but it only sunk in a couple of years ago that they are really people.

[snarkbillie]

I was on some forum when she was pregnant with #16 or 17 and everyone was making clown car vagina jokes and I was trying to defend her but then one poster pulled a whole wall of text out about Gothard and Quiverfull and how the girls weren't allowed to go to college and everything. I hadn't watched any of the specials I had only seen them on the Today show and stuff like Yahoo! news so I didn't know they were fundies. I grew up in a very restrictive fundamentalist life, and when I found out they were the same as my parents it turned my stomach. No more defense.

[GeoBQn]

I first learned of 14 Kids and Counting from TWOP, in the original thread for the special many moons and thread closings ago. I decided to check it out on my cable's On Demand. The family seemed odd, but not in a sinister way. Then it got to the part where Michelle (wearing the frumper with a Peter Pan collar) was talking about how they dress in a way that "draws attention to our countenance, our face" and that are modest, followed by a shot of the girls standing together. It gave me a bad feeling that the girls were being brought up with feelings of body-shaming and being worried about their clothes being modest.

Starts around 1:40

[delilahdog11]

I have a tendency to think that any religious fantic is a bit mad, so I have always held some prejudice towards the Duggars. I did like the episode were they showed how to make homemade laundry soap. I don't use their "recipe" but a similar one. That is were my love affair with the Duggars started and ended.

What sealed the deal was the SOFTDT episode. The lack of education and actual homeschooling appaled me, but what was worse is how Michelle is convinced that she is actually teaching her children anything. In front of the cameras, she seems to think that her homeschooling method truly benefits her children. How can an older child focus on learning when his or her's younger sibling is crying right next to them?

I also knew they were wackadoos when I learned about the sleeping arrangements for the girls and the boys. I couldn't believe that the older girls have to sleep in the same room with a baby or a toddler. I currently am using a baby monitor during the night and my toddler sleeps through the night, but squirms a lot and often talks in his sleep. These are minor disruptions to my sleep and when he decides to cry even after I have done everything to comfort him. I can just turn off the baby monitor and get some sleep. Even with him in another room. I still don't get enough sleep.

How do the older girls get the sleep that they need? Why the fuck isn't Michelle taking care of her own off spring?

I think it is interesting to watch the show or look at photos in order to see what is happening the background. To see the parts of the family life that aren't staged. Many times you see one of the J'Slaves taking care of one of the younger kids. There are also plenty of staged photos showing this as well. Jana & Joise. It seems that Michelle is addicted to being pregnant and to newborns. After that she could care two shits about taking care of her blessings. I also realize that the older girls are forced to take on a buddy, so they can be trained up to be godly wives and mothers. Girls don't need schooling or learning. Why they just need a crazy baby factory of a mother, so they can raise their mother's babies and learn everything they need to know for their futures.

I started commenting on FJ only recently, but have been reading it for quite some time. I decided to post because I need a place to vent my shock, awe, dismay at the Duggars and fundies in general. Also the other converstation threads are insightful and interesting. I wanted to be able to chime in every now and again.

[delilahdog11]

The first time I head the girls aren't allowed to wear anything but skirts or dresses...It all just went down hill from there.

The modesty bathing suits just made me angry at the Duggars and it made me realize that they are in fact nuts. I don't know how the girls are able to swim clothed in body suit covered in a whole bunch of fabric. The suits are probably light weight, but I would still feel totally encumbered in something like that especially when swimming at the beach. I would be afraid that modesty suit would prevent me from swimming out of a strong riptide.

[Cordelia]

I always thought they were kind of odd, but I think Josh's courting/marriage put me over to the crazy camp.

[lilwriter85]

I think early on when 17Kac started I noticed how much things were off. The older girls taking care of the kids too much was the moment for me. Then I did more research on QF and Gothard.

[eaglemom]

From the moment I saw the matching homemade frumpers on 14 Kids and Counting, I knew there had to be more to this family than met the eye. In the days before the internet, I would've been left wondering for years until one of the kids wrote a tell-all book. Thanks to the internet, I found basically all I ever wanted to know about the Duggars, plus a big bunch of snarky people who were as fascinated as me.

[HoneyBunny]

When I zoomed in on a photo on the Duggar website and saw the MOTH chart with a schedule of Time with Mom next to it.

An appointment. To talk with your mom.

This is NOT a family...it's an orphanage.

[Minerva]

I also realize that the older girls are forced to take on a buddy, so they can be trained up to be godly wives and mothers.

Is it only the girls who need to have buddies? The Google preview of their book says that James requested to be a buddy, but it sounds like it's only mandatory for the older ones.

[chiccy]

I just watched the link where Michelle and the kids go to 'public school'. WTF is she nursing while reading to the school kids? I totally get that the baby has to eat but honestly, she can't excuse herself for 10 mins to feed the baby? Josiah can't read to the kids? One of the older girls can't take her place? As a parent I would be more than pissed if a guest speaker exhibited that behavior in my kids classroom.

I have no problem with nursing, but I agree that that was a little weird. That would be fine to do if you were at home reading to your kids; in public reading to a public school, not so much.

[Lady]

I don't think it's possible to know what was said after the "Josiah! Don't-" because that's where they start splicing aggressively. A word that sounds like "call" is heard after "don't" but the editing put it there. The kids' expressions as they watch Josiah do whatever he's doing look, if anything, worried. And if Josiah was running to the phone, why did it take so long for him to get back on camera? He should have turned around and came back after the first "don't". The poses between the spliced scenes were different enough that a fair bit of time must have elapsed between them - more time than if he had just run to the phone and back. He'd have to have been really determined to disobey and call whomever. From what's being said, the calling hypothesis makes the most sense, but from what you see visually and from the time clues, it was probably something else. I think the Josiah stuff was actually him running away upset (grimaces can look like smiles, fake smiles can be maintained while running off camera), and the subject of calling people was brought up for the first time when you hear Josh and JB say it.

I've always quite clearly heard cry. I would expect a teenage boy to want to cry when he hears his mother's life is in danger-again- but not want to do it on camera for a national audience. And if he was going to call someone, why wouldn't he whip out his cell phone?

[Tator Tot Tubby]

It was this for me. Do you remember Nicole Kidman's Stepford Wives movie? Jana had this glazed over look with a plastered smile, all the while explaining that the earth was 6000 years old. It was CREEPY. I felt like I was watching a person under hypnosis.

Another moment was when JoyAnna covered the television because of a "defrauding" woman, but couldn't explain what defrauding was or why she was required to hide it from boys. It's just so completely evident that these children aren't given any explination as to why they do things. They are supposed to drink the coolaid only because "mommy and daddy says so". And you better smile while drinking it!

I haven't seen this but I've heard so much about it. When was this? Does anyone have a link?

[lilwriter85]

When I zoomed in on a photo on the Duggar website and saw the MOTH chart with a schedule of Time with Mom next to it.

An appointment. To talk with your mom.

This is NOT a family...it's an orphanage.

Making the kids schedule a time to talk their mom is just fucking stupid. Michelle is home all fucking day, she should open to talk her kids at any time. It disgusts me that some people think that fucking twat is so inspirational.

[slickcat79]

Is it only the girls who need to have buddies? The Google preview of their book says that James requested to be a buddy, but it sounds like it's only mandatory for the older ones.

Technically all the kids do, but at this point it falls more heavily on the girls. Josh definitely had buddies when he was at home, but now JD and Joseph have been let off the hook in that dept and the J'slaves still do most of the work. The younger boys are on buddy "teams" with the older girls, so they might have to help out some, but they certainly don't have to do wimmin's work.

[Tator Tot Tubby]

I realized it somewhere around "We're expecting again!"

I think it was the People magazine article where they said they'd be fine with having more after Josie's crazy delivery. I used to love the Duggars mainly because I love children and thought they did too. Eventually I figured them out though.

On a side note, does anyone have video of the girls charting Michelle's period? I keep hearing about it but haven't seen it.

[chiccy]

It was this for me. Do you remember Nicole Kidman's Stepford Wives movie? Jana had this glazed over look with a plastered smile, all the while explaining that the earth was 6000 years old. It was CREEPY. I felt like I was watching a person under hypnosis.

Another moment was when JoyAnna covered the television because of a "defrauding" woman, but couldn't explain what defrauding was or why she was required to hide it from boys. It's just so completely evident that these children aren't given any explination as to why they do things. They are supposed to drink the coolaid only because "mommy and daddy says so". And you better smile while drinking it!

Ugh. This Creation Museum episode is one of the scariest ones, IMO. Why the hell do they believe this stuff? Do they think it makes them more righteous? Even serious, serious mainstream liturgical Christians believe in evolution. No one will question your faith for believing in evolution. So why? It's just disastrously, destructively, willfully, recklessly stupid.

On another note, anyone else notice that all the older girls were wearing that same pink-striped, white-collared shirt at the museum? I think Michelle was wearing it, too. This has got to be THE most popular shirt in ATI circles if not fundie circles.

[Sprocket]

For me, it was when J'chelle said that her child was "her buddy" for six months and then became the "buddy" of an older child. So basically, she's responsible for the day to day routine of her children for six months and then they are not her problem anymore. If I were an older daughter, I'd be so bitter I couldn't see straight. I'd loathe getting up multiple times during the night with an infant and toddler who was not my own....

[chiccy]

Another big one for me was when it transpired that Michelle nurses her kids for less than 6 months each so she can get on with making new babies. Obviously, a lot of people nurse for that amount of time or even shorter, but to deliberately cut off your baby in order to open the shop again seems a little callous to me.

[smores]

The buddy system was something that pissed me off, too. How frustrating for a teenage girl.