Visionary Man/Reason to Hate Pearls (MERGED)

[Feralnostalgia]

Yes she was! Also Esther was extremely proactive in deciding her own destiny.

the holy spirit has historically been considered female, and the entire Sabbath ritual modern Chasidic Jews go through (I assume it's similar to ancient versions) is a celebration of the marriage of Shekinah and El. the femininity of divine power in modern abrahamic religions has been systematically erased.

[Sola]

It's such a ridiculous thing that they put their husbands into categories; Command man, Visionary man, wtf? They are trying to justify the fact that their husbands are walking all over them, and they are meant to smile sweetly while that happens. Where is the equality?

Even if you consider the bible to be your guide, this is not biblical. Biblical wives didn't just sit there and smile sweetly while crying inside because their husbands were taking them through rack and ruin.

[Austin]

I think these man-types are really just code words.

Like Michael Pearl is a "Command Man" = total asshole.

Like Gabe Anst is a "Visionary Man" = lazy slacker who "studies the bible" and won't support his family

I can't think of a fundie I would describe as a "Steady Man".

[Sola]

I think these man-types are really just code words.

Like Michael Pearl is a "Command Man" = total asshole.

Like Gabe Anst is a "Visionary Man" = lazy slacker who "studies the bible" and won't support his family

I can't think of a fundie I would describe as a "Steady Man".

John David Duggar?

[fluttershies]

the holy spirit has historically been considered female, and the entire Sabbath ritual modern Chasidic Jews go through (I assume it's similar to ancient versions) is a celebration of the marriage of Shekinah and El. the femininity of divine power in modern abrahamic religions has been systematically erased.

I have heard that too. Actually one of my favourite parts of The Shack (I know it had a fairly poor reception amongst board members but I found more positives in it than negatives) was the portrayal of the Holy Spirit as female.

[missbrooklyn]

Oy. And let's not forget Miriam, who actually was a helpmeet in history. (Or helpmate, which I prefer). I always liked Miriam. The oldest Brooklynette's Hebrew name is Leah Miriam.

[Austin]

John David Duggar?

I wouldn't know. All the Duggars run together for me.

[Red]

Yes she was! Also Esther was extremely proactive in deciding her own destiny.

Love Esther, regardless of how scary the Bible is. My name was originally going to be Esther, but my racist parents thought it "sounded like a black girl's name" and changed their minds before I was born. I added it to my name as an adult.

[Arete]

And to round out in the New Testament Lydia and Priscilla are missionaries, the real Mary Magdeline was not a doormat , and Jesus makes clear in the story of the sisters Martha and Mary that Mary learning was better than Martha getting all uptight about running the house and serving the men .

BTW didn't Rebecca help Jacob trick Issac into giving Jacob the blessing? Not exactly submitting to the headship's original plans. Also, God speaks directly to Eve and Sarah, just like he did to Adam and Abraham. It wasn't as if God limited his conversations only to men and husbands. Do these fundie girls (and they really are girls, not women) ever read the story of Judah and Tamar? Tamar didn't pray that the "holy spirit would change Judah's heart", she went ahead and took care of business herself. And Judah acknowledges that she was right and righteous in that decision. Command man? Steady man? Gag me.

The Holy Spirit is also feminime in early Christianity and the concept of "Holy Wisdom" is feminine. They don't know that because they don't study the early formation of christian thought, lest it scandalize their pious minds.

[ShadowyOne]

And to round out in the New Testament Lydia and Priscilla are missionaries, the real Mary Magdeline was not a doormat , and Jesus makes clear in the story of the sisters Martha and Mary that Mary learning was better than Martha getting all uptight about running the house and serving the men .

BTW didn't Rebecca help Jacob trick Issac into giving Jacob the blessing? Not exactly submitting to the headship's original plans. Also, God speaks directly to Eve and Sarah, just like he did to Adam and Abraham. It wasn't as if God limited his conversations only to men and husbands. Do these fundie girls (and they really are girls, not women) ever read the story of Judah and Tamar? Tamar didn't pray that the "holy spirit would change Judah's heart", she went ahead and took care of business herself. And Judah acknowledges that she was right and righteous in that decision. Command man? Steady man? Gag me.

The Holy Spirit is also feminime in early Christianity and the concept of "Holy Wisdom" is feminine. They don't know that because they don't study the early formation of christian thought, lest it scandalize their pious minds.

Do the fundies have any respect for historical (as opposed to Biblical) women of strength or learning? Ste Catherine of Alexandria is my favorite: she out-debated all the wise men of the emperor's court! I suppose they just dismiss them as Catholic nonsense, if they know about them at all.

[Someonetocall]

I find this especially disturbing.....

I just showed this quote to my husband and he wishes to join the line to vehemently suggest to people who seriously believe the above that they are doing it wrong.

[Feralnostalgia]

Do the fundies have any respect for historical (as opposed to Biblical) women of strength or learning? Ste Catherine of Alexandria is my favorite: she out-debated all the wise men of the emperor's court! I suppose they just dismiss them as Catholic nonsense, if they know about them at all.

fundies tend to barely be familiar with patristic theology, let alone relevant people who weren't Catholic-ordained "Good Guys" (emphasis strongly on the "guys")...back when I was still trying to redeem my parents religion I remember going into a Lifeway and asking for a copy of "On The Incarnation" and they didn't even know what it was. like, oh, I'm sorry, I thought you sold Christian Books here. my bad.

I just don't even get into debates about church history with people who don't know who Athanasius or Origen are.

[thoughtful]

My hubby is definitely a Command Man and I dearly love him. We had many struggles early on, but once I learned to give him the control he desired and needed, things have been so different. No, I am not a doormat, but by letting him lead so strongly it has taken so much pressure off of me!

Which makes me wonder what her definition of a doormat would be? Perhaps actually lying still, doing nothing, and letting him wipe his feet on her all day?

[thoughtful]

Learn to ignore your gut reaction

Well, that's scary.

Can we anonymously send a copy of The Gift of Fear to this woman?

[fundiefan]

The entire concept of learning to ignore your gut makes me sick.

[Jezebel]

Well, that's scary.

Can we anonymously send a copy of The Gift of Fear to this woman?

My thoughts exactly.

Anyone who instructs anyone else to ignore their gut reaction, suck it up, and submit? Needs to be shunned, and shunned hard. That "gut reaction" happens for a damned good reason, and teaching people to ignore it, discount it, and not trust it when t goes against what authority figures say is just horrifically bad advice.

[tacky]

I think these man-types are really just code words.

Like Michael Pearl is a "Command Man" = total asshole.

Like Gabe Anst is a "Visionary Man" = lazy slacker who "studies the bible" and won't support his family

I can't think of a fundie I would describe as a "Steady Man".

My husband qualifies as a Mr. Steady, but he was a heathen who led me away from fundieville.

[ADoyle90815]

My thoughts exactly.

Anyone who instructs anyone else to ignore their gut reaction, suck it up, and submit? Needs to be shunned, and shunned hard. That "gut reaction" happens for a damned good reason, and teaching people to ignore it, discount it, and not trust it when t goes against what authority figures say is just horrifically bad advice.

This. When I transferred to the state university, during one of the orientation sessions for transferring students, the officer in charge of the campus police escort service actually told women to trust their gut if they got that feeling anytime on campus.

[Red]

Learn to ignore your gut reaction

Translation: Be abused.

[missbrooklyn]

Because you're a stupid woman and what do you know anyway.

[YPestis]

I can never understand why any women would ignore their instincts like that. Isn't the traditional role of a wife----even in biblical times---suppose to be that of counselor? These women are twisting even those ideas around and interpreting the "headship" thing as meaning they must have no will at all!

[latraviata]

It's such a ridiculous thing that they put their husbands into categories; Command man, Visionary man, wtf? They are trying to justify the fact that their husbands are walking all over them, and they are meant to smile sweetly while that happens. Where is the equality?

Even if you consider the bible to be your guide, this is not biblical. Biblical wives didn't just sit there and smile sweetly while crying inside because their husbands were taking them through rack and ruin.

Like the Smurfs, one-dimensional typified.

http://bluebuddies.com/help/smurf_names ... smurfs.htm

[CrazySister]

Which makes me wonder what her definition of a doormat would be? Perhaps actually lying still, doing nothing, and letting him wipe his feet on her all day?

Yeah, me thinks she doth protesteth too much! :roll: Honey, if ya gotta try to convince somebody you're NOT a doormat...You're a doormat.

[uber frau]

Where I grew up 'gut instincts' were considered to just be your sinful, selfish nature trying to get out.

The overarching principle for women was to be obedient to their husbands and pretty much everything else, like physical safety and financial security, was secondary. I have an aunt who considered obedience to override the safety of her children and took back her husband after he sexually abused their children. (vomit).

[Deleted07]

URGH THAT just makes me feel sick and angry!!!