Do you think these young, married fundies are REALLY happy?

[Justme]

The ones raised in the fundie lifestyle who went through "courtship"? How many are truely in love and did find a sole-mate? Do they even know what real love is? (For a mate, not for Daddy, sibling, etc.) How many married because they wanted to please their families and/or it seemed like the "right" thing to do? How many married to get out of their fathers house and actually become an adult?

They marry, and for many, children quickly come. They don't really ever have time to get to know each other as individuals, then as a couple.

[smores]

I think they are happy for the change in surroundings. And as much as most people say that the guy is in charge, I think women have some say in a lot of these families, probably a lot more than they did when they were taking care of their parents' children. (Look at Michelle, she basically wears the pants in the Duggar family and I am sure her girls have picked up on it.)

It's really hard to say, though, about happiness. No one is ever going to know because there is just that element of keeping sweet and you suspect everyone is.

[debrand]

I'm sure that some are very happy with their lives. The ones who are unhappy probably feel guilty about their own misery so they remain silent.

The problem with extremism is that it tries to force everyone into a tiny box, but there is no one way to happiness. Some people are satisfied with less and like being self sufficient. Other people want more choices. There is no 'one size fits all' answer in life.

[dawbs]

'happy' is such an elusive thing...and so hard to pin down.

I think some of them are happy...I think that the discontent that leads t bucking the system often doesn't start at 20. The young marrieds, even those w/ kids, are still in the 'honeymoon phase' of their fundy-dom. They have a strong sense of 'their place', they have the martyrdom-joy (I don't have a good word for it--but the deep seated contentment that says "it's worth it" when your'e struggling to make ends meet, etc), they have a community that is celebrating them, they see themselves in a 'city on a hill' role--it's all roses and honeymoon.

I think the disillusionment comes later. It comes when there are 10 kids and they're over-stressed and haven't slept a full night in 3 years, it comes when their kids ask questions/challenge things. It comes when there's the sinking realization that martyring/intentionally poverty didn't lead to long-term gains and money as much as it was just the 'warm up' for a lifetime of poverty.

It comes when the middle-aged-woman has her voice not heard because she isn't the virginal, attractive 'wonderkid' of the movement.

It comes when the community support is replaced by community judgement.

(and at that point, it's harder to break out)

I'm nto saying any of that well...but I think they may think they're happy at the moment. I think there's a reason the vocal fundies we see are so often VERY young -- I think the 35-45 fundie-set is internet saavy and could blog well...but they're less vocal about how happy they are because...they're not.

[debrand]

I think they are happy for the change in surroundings. And as much as most people say that the guy is in charge, I think women have some say in a lot of these families, probably a lot more than they did when they were taking care of their parents' children. (Look at Michelle, she basically wears the pants in the Duggar family and I am sure her girls have picked up on it.)

It's really hard to say, though, about happiness. No one is ever going to know because there is just that element of keeping sweet and you suspect everyone is.

I also think that some of the women who run succesful home business probably have personality types that are more like modern business women then they would like to admit. Running a succesful home business takes skill in things like promotion, budgetting etc. The women probably have to balance time with their families and their jobs just like women who work outside the home. The difference is that fundie women who run home businesses can pretend that they are superior to mothers who work outside the house.

It is possible that such women are happy because they have an outlet outside of their families. Although they would probably not admit that they secretly need something beyond caring for children and husband to make them feel satisfied.

[contrary]

Dude. Dawbs. Spot ON.

[daharyn]

The ones raised in the fundie lifestyle who went through "courtship"? How many are truely in love and did find a sole-mate? Do they even know what real love is? (For a mate, not for Daddy, sibling, etc.)

All these bolded things (and also the "happy" of your title)? They're things we don't get to define for other people. I don't know if the young marrieds are happy or not, but I know that the marriage contract has only recently been about romantic love and has long been a tool for economic/group stability. To be honest, they get more "choice" than a lot of people do in many parts of the world. I also know that many people out in the "dating" world end up marrying for compatibility the vast majority of the time. Looking for like-minded souls is a thing society wires into us from an early age. It's only recently that we've overlaid it with the drama of passionate love.

So that is to say, this is not the question we should be asking. Rather, "do you think these young, married fundies are going to use the power the marriage contract still holds in mainstream society as a pulpit from which to preach a seriously problematic message about religion and gender?" The answer to that one is yes, and that's my problem with 'em. Not if they're happy or not...

I hope they're happy in the way that I hope that most people are happy most of the time. But if they don't find their happiness from the marriage contract itself, the young marrieds may not actually see that as an issue. To me, the most insidious feature of Xtianity, particularly in its fundamental version, is the delaying of gratification in favor of sacrifice. I think that if they aren't happy, they'll see that as God's will, as something that brings them closer to the gratification they'll receive in heaven, or whatever.

[Rowan]

I think they are happy (or believe that they are happy) because they are told that doing what they are doing in life is what will make them happy. So they don't expect anything else and just think that this is the way it is supposed to be, so they must be happy. Circular reasoning. Is it real happiness? Probably not as we would describe it, but it is in their perspective.

[Visionoyahweh]

False happiness is like false money; it passes for a time as well as the true, and serves some ordinary occasions; but when it is brought to the touch, we find the lightness and alloy, and feel the loss.

- Alexander Pope

[nolongerIFBx]

'happy' is such an elusive thing...and so hard to pin down.

I think some of them are happy...I think that the discontent that leads t bucking the system often doesn't start at 20. The young marrieds, even those w/ kids, are still in the 'honeymoon phase' of their fundy-dom. They have a strong sense of 'their place', they have the martyrdom-joy (I don't have a good word for it--but the deep seated contentment that says "it's worth it" when your'e struggling to make ends meet, etc), they have a community that is celebrating them, they see themselves in a 'city on a hill' role--it's all roses and honeymoon.

I think the disillusionment comes later. It comes when there are 10 kids and they're over-stressed and haven't slept a full night in 3 years, it comes when their kids ask questions/challenge things. It comes when there's the sinking realization that martyring/intentionally poverty didn't lead to long-term gains and money as much as it was just the 'warm up' for a lifetime of poverty.

It comes when the middle-aged-woman has her voice not heard because she isn't the virginal, attractive 'wonderkid' of the movement.

It comes when the community support is replaced by community judgement.

(and at that point, it's harder to break out)

I'm nto saying any of that well...but I think they may think they're happy at the moment. I think there's a reason the vocal fundies we see are so often VERY young -- I think the 35-45 fundie-set is internet saavy and could blog well...but they're less vocal about how happy they are because...they're not.

Ditto!

The young marrieds are happy because they don't know any better; in their culture, everything is working out just peachy for them.

It's the ones who get left behind ( :hand: that would be me) who start to question.

[Dhani_C]

Ignorance is bliss.

[Karsaroni]

'happy' is such an elusive thing...and so hard to pin down.

I think some of them are happy...I think that the discontent that leads t bucking the system often doesn't start at 20. The young marrieds, even those w/ kids, are still in the 'honeymoon phase' of their fundy-dom. They have a strong sense of 'their place', they have the martyrdom-joy (I don't have a good word for it--but the deep seated contentment that says "it's worth it" when your'e struggling to make ends meet, etc), they have a community that is celebrating them, they see themselves in a 'city on a hill' role--it's all roses and honeymoon.

I think the disillusionment comes later. It comes when there are 10 kids and they're over-stressed and haven't slept a full night in 3 years, it comes when their kids ask questions/challenge things. It comes when there's the sinking realization that martyring/intentionally poverty didn't lead to long-term gains and money as much as it was just the 'warm up' for a lifetime of poverty.

It comes when the middle-aged-woman has her voice not heard because she isn't the virginal, attractive 'wonderkid' of the movement.

It comes when the community support is replaced by community judgement.

(and at that point, it's harder to break out)

I'm not saying any of that well...but I think they may think they're happy at the moment. I think there's a reason the vocal fundies we see are so often VERY young -- I think the 35-45 fundie-set is internet saavy and could blog well...but they're less vocal about how happy they are because...they're not.

Ditto all of this. I think once they are overwhelmed with the amount of children they've had in 10 years, finances, Groundhog Day Syndrome, etc. the initial happiness probably fades. I also think that married life is so glamorized by this group that they put it on a pedestal (i.e. take a look at all of the SAHD's Pinterest pages) that when it FINALLY happens for them these girls don't really even seem to care who the guy is! Then they wake up 7-10 years and as many kids later and realize they are married to Peter Bradrick. :?

[chiccy]

'happy' is such an elusive thing...and so hard to pin down.

I think some of them are happy...I think that the discontent that leads t bucking the system often doesn't start at 20. The young marrieds, even those w/ kids, are still in the 'honeymoon phase' of their fundy-dom. They have a strong sense of 'their place', they have the martyrdom-joy (I don't have a good word for it--but the deep seated contentment that says "it's worth it" when your'e struggling to make ends meet, etc), they have a community that is celebrating them, they see themselves in a 'city on a hill' role--it's all roses and honeymoon.

I think the disillusionment comes later. It comes when there are 10 kids and they're over-stressed and haven't slept a full night in 3 years, it comes when their kids ask questions/challenge things. It comes when there's the sinking realization that martyring/intentionally poverty didn't lead to long-term gains and money as much as it was just the 'warm up' for a lifetime of poverty.

It comes when the middle-aged-woman has her voice not heard because she isn't the virginal, attractive 'wonderkid' of the movement.

It comes when the community support is replaced by community judgement.

(and at that point, it's harder to break out)

I'm nto saying any of that well...but I think they may think they're happy at the moment. I think there's a reason the vocal fundies we see are so often VERY young -- I think the 35-45 fundie-set is internet saavy and could blog well...but they're less vocal about how happy they are because...they're not.

QFT.

I also think the courtship/only dating one person model encourgages people to marry the first person they court. When you date a new person, it's always really exciting, right? You'd always like to get in their pants and/or marry them, right? And yet, most of the time they don't turn out to be your soulmate. You eventually find that out and move on. Fundies don't.

In fundie-verse, when a young person is courting for the first time, they can easily get caught up in the excitement of it (OMG! It's my first time getting attention from a boy! He's so handsome and so chivalrous. This and that and the other thing is great about him. I want to marry him. I want to be with him. He's my soulmate!) And, of course, for guys who are desperate to get laid for the first time, it's all the more tempting to choose the first person who walks by. So basically, I don't think the model works for choosing a soulmate or the optimal, most compatible and most wonderful person for you long-term.

However, it might seem to work in practice because these people are so committed to not divorcing, to staying with the same person for life...BUT that doesn't mean they're actually happy.

[Lady]

I think they are happy because they are finally receiving the validation of being taken seriously and they are finally getting laid after hearing about it for years. They are happy for the break in work, and for the change of scene. But truely happy? I don't know.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Well, according to Maranatha ChildBride Chapman, they are really BORED. And thus ripe for the devil's influence. Don't go shopping with your girlfriends, girlfriend!

from wearinghispurity.blogspot:

"I'm 20 years old and have been married for six months. I have a good marriage, but, to be honest, I'm very bored. I clean for about an hour each day, but after that I just walk around our home redecorating. I like to talk on the phone and that helps pass the time, but I wanted to see if you had any advice on what else I can do with my day. My husband has wondered about me getting a part time job just so I can have more to do besides decorating our apartment. I also think my boredom is starting to concern him."

Here are some of Maranatha's answers to that:

Most new wives I talk to don't have a clue what they are suppose (sic) to "do," so their life is spent on the phone, sleeping late, watching talk shows, at the mall, spending money, running around, and many other idle activities

Be on the alert not to let wrong beliefs, independence, feminism, disrespect, and worldly ideals have a place in you.

Idle time spent yakking and chatting with girlfriends always ends in regret (Prov. 10:19!). This is fertile ground for gossip, slander, complaining, discontentment, exposing husbands, inappropriate talk, silliness, laziness, etc.

[Confused_by_religion]

Given the fact that the Mormon heartland has very high rates of anti-depressant use, I doubt that all of the young fundie wives are that happy without medical help. I guess there is a lot of pressure on them to be happy - since they are doing what (fundy-style) God ordained woman to do, i. e. waiting on her husband, homemaking, and getting pregnant. Consequently, if they can't live up to the standard for some reason, they're bound to be unhappy but unwilling to show or discuss it.

Mind you, some must be extremely glad to have escaped their demanding families and to be independent of their parents.

[Feberin]

I think at first most are blissfully happy because everything happens so quickly for many of them. So you get one amazing life event after another, which in the end may cause problems but at first is extremely exciting compared to being a SAHD waiting for their prince. Many of these girls in a single year, court, get engaged, get married and get pregnant. All that excitement probably leads to lots of happy feelings especially when they might have spent many years dreaming about this part of their lives. I agree with the others that when the newness wears off the happiness does too and they're stuck with a asshole of a husband who they don't really love and a bunch of kids.

[Cannelle]

I think they're happy. For a while, anyway. Until they have four or five kids, and pregnant with another one. They're exhausted, what with the constant toll on their bodies, the homeschooling, trying to keep up with the little ones, and trying to keep the house in perfect condition and keep up all the laundry and cooking everything from scratch, the church duties, the basic child care, the lack of sleep, and most likely not a lot of help from Dad...I think that's when the drudgery of their life sets in and a lot of them start to take a hard look at what they signed up for.

[socalrules]

We talk so much about the young wives but I wonder about the men. So they have fulfilled their Godly duties by marrying. Now they can have sex. Woohoo! Here comes the hard part. Struggling to provide for a family without an education. They are basically "forced" to work at their own business or for family, which is unlikely to be providing a large amount of income. The pressure on them must be enormous. They are to have as many children as God allows. You could be twenty-five and have five kids. That would be hard even for a college educated man with a good paying job. Plus, these young men have never been brought up to think for themselves, just like the women. They are under their father's authority until they marry. Once they say "I Do"", they are supposed to have all the answers for their wives and children. It must be frightening to know you are suddenly on your own. I can't imagine they are all super happy with the struggle to provide for a wife and children when their options are limited. I am sure there are some that would prefer to at least work in the secular world if it provided for their family. The problem is that it is frowned upon in their community.

[NurseNell]

Solemate? So they can walked on? :P I think it's soulmate, and I honestly don't believe in soul mates but lots of young people, fundy and otherwise, do.

Happiness is hard to define and we all have different definitions. But I'm guessing most younger fundy couples would describe themselves as happy. But eventually reality sets in and some won't be happy but may still pretend to be. The few times I see Anna Duggar on TV I think she's starting to look a little unhappy.

[0 kids n not countin]

Speaking of young, married fundies, check out this website (if you haven't already)

http://ylcf.org/courtship-stories/three/

[hollis_75]

Happiness is a hard thing to find for ANYbody and everyone has a different idea of what makes them happy. I would say they are as happy/ have as much a chance at happiness as any set of couples out there. There isn't a recipe for married/coupled happiness. I am sure they wonder the same thing about secular couples.

[Stickers]

I agree most of them are happy at first. It's what they've been raised their whole lives to value most, how can you not be happy achieving something like that?

But then if their personalities don't mesh well, or they can't handle all the kids, or they can't have kids... I bet things turn sour fast.

[Nesomja]

If they aren't happy it is of course their fault for not trusting Jesus enough so I wouldn't have thought the discussion ever really comes up. The point of their lives is not happiness after all - they have their mind set on higher things.

[Witsec7]

Well, according to Maranatha ChildBride Chapman, they are really BORED. And thus ripe for the devil's influence. Don't go shopping with your girlfriends, girlfriend!

from wearinghispurity.blogspot:

Here are some of Maranatha's answers to that:

Not enough bible study in this young marrieds day. I'm sure a couple of ladies only bible study classes can keep satan at bay.