Santorum: Calif. Colleges Don't Teach American History!

[Visionoyahweh]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/0 ... ef=college

Maybe they're trying to emulate the SOTDRT by teaching nothing? There's a beam in your backer's eyes, Rick.

[anniebgood]

I guess all that money that I paid to attend a state university here in CA was for nothing. The degree on my diploma says history.....

[Anise]

I attend a California State University (as opposed to a University of California), and at least one GE class in American history is required here. I got an awesome off-beat professor who taught us about MKULTRA and sundown towns.

[tehgoobster]

Yeah, they should totally bring that "historian" David Barton in to rectify the situation. /sarcasm

[Anise]

Gotta laugh at this: "Santorum also claimed his grades suffered at Pennsylvania State University because of his beliefs."

Yes, Frothy, that is why you did so poorly. :roll:

[Coconut Flan]

How can anyone let him loose on the streets if he can't manage a college catelog?

[JMarie]

Gotta laugh at this: "Santorum also claimed his grades suffered at Pennsylvania State University because of his beliefs."

Yes, Frothy, that is why you did so poorly. :roll:

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists ... iffer.html

Penn State wasn't liberal. "I find it amazing that anyone would see this as some kind of a leftist bastion, the Berkeley of Pennsylvania," said Robert O'Connor, who taught or supervised Santorum in four courses.

[JesusFightClub]

I honestly fail at the idea US universities are hugely leftist. Are they? It seems super unlikely.

I didn't pass one essay cause I are a commie ;) but it wasn't political bias on the part of my examiners. I wrote an essay on a particular Marxist point of theory. It would have helped if I had written it dispassionately. I, er, quite dramatically didn't. The lecturers got the Party line ;) They were not best pleased.

Santorum will have done the same thing. This is not you being discriminated against, Frothy. This is you failing to meet academic standards.

[Kitty]

I honestly fail at the idea US universities are hugely leftist. Are they? It seems super unlikely.

I didn't pass one essay cause I are a commie ;) but it wasn't political bias on the part of my examiners. I wrote an essay on a particular Marxist point of theory. It would have helped if I had written it dispassionately. I, er, quite dramatically didn't. The lecturers got the Party line ;) They were not best pleased.

Santorum will have done the same thing. This is not you being discriminated against, Frothy. This is you failing to meet academic standards.

Yeah, it's best to be as unbiased as possible, though it's very difficult to write a paper about shit you don't care about. Just can't win, I guess.

But US universities are fairly leftist, at least by American standards. They might be less leftist in the South, but they're still surprisingly leftist.

Edit: But they're not so leftist as to not welcome debate. Right-wing views are fairly welcome, so you won't lost points just for stating them, but you damn well better back them up with a reliable source. I suspect that's what happened to Frothy. Also, I bet he failed biology by writing "But.. but... THE BIBLE!!11" during the evolution unit. THAT shit wouldn't fly at a public university.

Hilariously, I was under the impression that an American history class was required for GE at most universities in the country. It was at mine, but I had an AP credit and didn't have to take the one American history course I needed (so I took a Western Civ class instead!) But of course, I'm in North Carolina, what do I know, O Holy Frothy?

[FlorenceHamilton]

Since the whole purpose of a Liberal Arts Education is to teach young people how to think critically, it IS leftist by definition. Even if you go to the Business College or Engineering school, A good sized chunk of the requirements are in Liberal Arts. Incidentally...notice the word "Liberal".

Words have taken on new meanings in the last several decades. The polarizing of the political field has made it so. Liberal thinking was supposed to mean that a person makes choices based on weighing evidence/arguments on all sides of an issue. Conservative was supposed to mean that a person wants to keep the status quo. Now Conservatives have redefined themselves as wanting to go backwards to some fictional point in time where life was ideal. Conservatives have defined the word liberal as meaning to make no decision at all. (Which would be chaos). Liberal people have allowed this redefinition to take place. They (we) have allowed them to redefine ourselves in a way that we never intended.

Liberal people do not expect to agree with one another on everything. some of us have even reached conclusions on some topics that are more consistent with what we now know as conservatives. Conservative people seem to be trying to reach some sort of ultimate truth by which everyone must live and accept.

[Anise]

I honestly fail at the idea US universities are hugely leftist. Are they? It seems super unlikely.

I've had a mix of professors.

However, I do know that one of my professors had his paper rejected because he relied on Marx's theory of historical events, and was told to take Marx out of it (even though Marx's work on history came before his critiques of capitalism).

[marmalade]

I attend a California State University (as opposed to a University of California), and at least one GE class in American history is required here. I got an awesome off-beat professor who taught us about MKULTRA and sundown towns.

I attended a CA community college and to transfer I had to take this little course called...oh, I don't know....maybe HISTORY? And to make this super ironic, my professor got his PhD. from....UC Berkeley (which is where I ended up transferring). I wanted to minor in history, but at the orientation I asked a fellow English major about the workload and he said he changed his minor after one semester. A TON of reading, like 40 books/semester, plus papers, etc.

Frothy's panties are probably in a wad since I know I wasn't taught the sunshine and rainbows revisionist crap he and his ilk tend to believe is true, even though Frothy had to take a real history course at that commie institution, Penn State, to get his undergrad degree.

And talk about Obama being "elitist..." Frothy has TWO post-grad degrees and AFAIK, grew up in a nuclear family. I'd say Obama, who went to a CA Community college (and therefore wasn't taught American History) before transferring, grew up a hell of a lot more "blue-collar" than the Frothmeister.

[daharyn]

But US universities are fairly leftist, at least by American standards. They might be less leftist in the South, but they're still surprisingly leftist.

I teach at two of 'em. And believe me, "leftist" is the last thing I'd label either institution. Now, me, personally, my beliefs are leftist, in part because of my commitment to public education. But please, don't make the mistake of conflating the people with the institution. Institutions are not in any way progressive places, by definition. They exist to maintain the status quo. And every supposedly "leftist" prof you ever had is negotiating that space on a daily basis.

I really really really hate it when people make claims like this. The people working within a university might, on the whole, lean a little to the left. Studies show that, though not as much of a "surprisingly leftist" divide as you might claim. But the university, American or otherwise, is not at all leftist.

[Anise]

If he had such bad grades because of his faith, how was he able to attend graduate school? :?

[mockingbird]

We don't have to take American history, but we had to take Western History and a non-western history, which is probably blasphemous. You could choose between Latin America, Africa, Middle East, or Asia. I chose the Middle East which was probably the most heathen-istic of all of the four considering all the Muslims that live there. I had an AP credit for western, so I'm not sure what it covered, but my credit was for AP European History and I think my college uses the same textbook my high school switched to for Euro after my year.

Marmalade - I minored in history and I agree about the workload. I think history required more reading than any of my English classes! LOL Sometimes more writing, too. I really enjoyed the classes, but they were very time-intensive. I kind-of cheated though because my school let me count AP credits toward the minor. Two of those were for the pesky AP US History (my college divides basic US history into two semesters, and I had credit for both). haha

As far as leftist... I don't think my university is really leftist (we're Jesuit, so I guess compared to other Catholic colleges but otherwise no) but I think sometimes the religious right confuses being "leftist" with critical thinking (/actually thinking for yourself), which I would presume all universities promote.

[Jessica]

That's strange. I clearly remember taking American history in college (in Monterey California!).

[Kitty]

I teach at two of 'em. And believe me, "leftist" is the last thing I'd label either institution. Now, me, personally, my beliefs are leftist, in part because of my commitment to public education. But please, don't make the mistake of conflating the people with the institution. Institutions are not in any way progressive places, by definition. They exist to maintain the status quo. And every supposedly "leftist" prof you ever had is negotiating that space on a daily basis.

I really really really hate it when people make claims like this. The people working within a university might, on the whole, lean a little to the left. Studies show that, though not as much of a "surprisingly leftist" divide as you might claim. But the university, American or otherwise, is not at all leftist.

Well, public universities are leftist by default, but then again we're measuring by Frothy's standards.

I know some Southern institutions overall are pretty right-wing, but you still see a variety of views, and yeah, they kind of lean to the left. And people seem to shift to the left in college (NOT everyone, true). They'd probably be moderate anywhere else, but by the American standard that's shifting more to the right by the hour, they're lefty.

[pomology]

I honestly fail at the idea US universities are hugely leftist. Are they? It seems super unlikely.

I didn't pass one essay cause I are a commie ;) but it wasn't political bias on the part of my examiners. I wrote an essay on a particular Marxist point of theory. It would have helped if I had written it dispassionately. I, er, quite dramatically didn't. The lecturers got the Party line ;) They were not best pleased.

Santorum will have done the same thing. This is not you being discriminated against, Frothy. This is you failing to meet academic standards.

Hugely leftist? No. More liberal than the general population? Probably.

I go to a school that is probably as leftist as you get in this country (in terms of both beliefs and putting lefty ideals like socialism into action) and I'm sure we're still pretty right-wing compared to you, JFC ;)

[FlorenceHamilton]

I cannot speak for California, but am from Phila PA. PA is really nutty about its place in American History....as it should be. After all, the state has Valley Forge, Independence Hall (Where both the Declaration of Independence AND the Constitution were signed), Betsy Ross's house, Ben Franklin's home (and remains), the spot where the Declaration of Independence was first read in public, as well as Gettysburg. The railroad industry grew in large part due to the coal mining operations in Western PA. I truly, really doubt that anyone who went to Penn State from PA did not know a great deal about American History. Perhaps Frothy did poorly because the professors assumed that the students arrived with a great deal of American Historical knowledge already under their belt and Frothy just missed the boat.

Frothy will NOT win a PA primary.

[BelieveinScience]

I honestly fail at the idea US universities are hugely leftist. Are they? It seems super unlikely.

I didn't pass one essay cause I are a commie ;) but it wasn't political bias on the part of my examiners. I wrote an essay on a particular Marxist point of theory. It would have helped if I had written it dispassionately. I, er, quite dramatically didn't. The lecturers got the Party line ;) They were not best pleased.

Santorum will have done the same thing. This is not you being discriminated against, Frothy. This is you failing to meet academic standards.

There are leftist colleges. I currently go to a school thats known for being conservative.

[ADoyle90815]

I also took an American History class at the community college as it was required before transferring, as well as for the AA degree I ended up transferring with. My brother also went to a CSU school, and his degree was in History, with several courses being American history. Kirk Cameron even came to my campus for a religious debate, and we had one of those crazy preachers that I mentioned in another thread.

[JesusFightClub]

Pomology and BiS, I understand if you don't want to say where you study. But what places in the US are known for being particularly right or left wing? (You don't have to mention yours, of course!)

I am utterly fascinated by this. Nothing particularly political happened to me at uni that I didn't cause myself by being an arsehole. We used to walk under an American flag to get to a pub we liked and I used to get "Want a lighter, "comrade"?*" and I fucked up an essay and annoyed some normal people. I also picked a lot of fights with the Nationalists.

People sold Socialist Worker (before the line changed...but that's a long story) but nothing in class or anything like that. We didn't do politics in class, apart from studying it. Certainly we were not told how to think, behave or vote. The US college experience is confusing me in my head.

* Stating for the record I have never burnt an American flag and wouldn't bother to do so. I have been present at a flag burning, but it was a UK one. And was totally daft.

[FlorenceHamilton]

I am just guessing, but I think that the Insanitorum remark about the teacheing or lack of teaching of American Hrisotry is the belief that the standard way we are taught history is incorrect. If you look at school districts in very conservative states, you see actual legislation beeing drafted and even passed to amend the way history is taught. Things like rewriting the birth of the nation into an intentionally Christian version. Far right wing people feel that we have been tricked by the "liberal" educational system to believe that the US was created to be secular. Similarly, they beleive that the war between the states was not really about slavery, but about states rights. They want to put less emphasis on the fact that the right that these states wanted to protect wias the right to keep slaves.

I the view of these very right wing people, the American History we are taught is simply wrong. I can see where they would phrase it as saying that we are not taught American History and that their ideas hurt their grades because they literally believe things that would be graded as the wrong answer under our current view of history.

[longskirtlotsakids]

A lot of colleges teach a course called American History.

Frothy wants the course called Armurikin' History. You know, the truth where the country went to shit after women got the vote and right to choose, where the loss of slavery was Bad fur the country, where the North was a bunch of Fascists in the Civil War. Oh, and there were no massacres against the natives and stealing of Native children and putting them in English schools.

THAT kinda history.

That said, just watched the PBS American Experience where the trials of Massasoit and his people were explained somewhere around the 5th generation of pilgrims. After saving the Pilgrim's asses by feeding them, teaching them agriculture, giving them seeds and farmland, the Pilgrims told the Natives that they were a hellbound Heathen people. Where have I heard of that before?

Frothy's reasoning is exactly why education needs to remain public. Without public funding, corpoarations would determine what would be taught. Could you imagine if Monsanto and Big Pharm taught medical and nutrition courses?

[debrand]

My son is going to a community college and he is taking a class on the Civil War and the period immediately afterwards.

As far as being liberal or conservative, his college seems to be neither. He has had both conservative and liberal teachers. He has also had teachers whose political leanings were impossible for him to guage.