Another former ATI guy speaks out

[SpeakNow]

http://johndcornish.wordpress.com/2011/04/13/ati-ifb-childhood/

 

This was perhaps the most telling/poignant part:

 

Quote

Within ATI, Gothard was viewed as a sort of demigod. I remember attending the annual conferences where he was lauded with 10 minute standing ovations. We awaited every word that he said with baited breath, and took it all as gospel truth. We didn't ask questions, we just accepted it. And that was the norm in ATI. Gothard was all about controlling people's minds through anecdotes that would strike fear, and using scriptures out of context to say things that he wanted them to say.

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

Gothard was all about controlling people’s minds through anecdotes that would strike fear, and using scriptures out of context to say things that he wanted them to say.

From what I've seen his minions have mastered that technique also. Sick, sick, sick.

[Visionoyahweh]

I still remember with horror as one young man was forced to confess pornography use to the entire training center. I felt humiliated for him. I remember when the entire group of students was almost denied a field trip because they failed a random pop quiz on the book of Jonah. However, they were allowed to go if they wrote out the entire book by hand.

:|

However, the doctrine of separation has resulted in many casualties as well. The problem with believing that you can keep sin out of your children’s lives is the truth that sin already dwells within their hearts. And when a child doesn’t experience personally the love of Jesus Christ and the transforming power of the gospel, then the rules mean nothing except captivity and oppression.

QFT

[deelaem]

:|

QFT

Boy, I sure don't agree with this. Of course, I don't believe in sin either. But I find it absolutely unacceptable that innocent children have sin in their hearts.

[fluttershies]

My own perspective on children and sin is that all people are born with the capacity for sinfulness, but can only commit sins when they have the mental capacity to do so. So, a newborn can't sin because a newborn can't comprehend anything but milk time and poop time :D However, older children can certainly sin - a normally-developed 8 year old who tells a lie absolutely knows that lying is wrong, and so can understand that lying is a sin. I think that sin has to be talked about with children in age-appropriate ways, but I still think that kids sin. That's not me saying that they are 100% inherently bad and need the sin beaten out of them like a Pearl follower might, but a child of mine would be made to understand that doing wrong hurts God as well as parents/others/themselves.

[Coconut Flan]

To me it's pretty simple. If a child knows that there is a rule, why there is a rule, and that there are consequences for breaking the rule and does it anyway, they can grasp the concept of sin. After teaching kindergarten a few years, most five year olds can be naughty willfully and that's pretty much what sin is for that age group. They're still learning about it though and that's probably why the "age of reason" is usually considered seven or eight. By then they should have a pretty good idea that lying, stealing, talking back, etc. are not proper things to do.

[Caramel]

But why formulate those things as sin, when "not proper things to do" is the real issue?

[Coconut Flan]

Call it improper, wrong, or sin, it's really semantics. Sin means missing the mark. Doing wrong is missing the mark. Now do I think we need to wallow over it or make some huge deal out of it? No. I think that's probably the bigger issue. Would I tell a kid they sinned or that they broke a rule? I'd tell them they broke a rule and why they needed to follow it.

[deelaem]

My own perspective on children and sin is that all people are born with the capacity for sinfulness, but can only commit sins when they have the mental capacity to do so. So, a newborn can't sin because a newborn can't comprehend anything but milk time and poop time :D However, older children can certainly sin - a normally-developed 8 year old who tells a lie absolutely knows that lying is wrong, and so can understand that lying is a sin. I think that sin has to be talked about with children in age-appropriate ways, but I still think that kids sin. That's not me saying that they are 100% inherently bad and need the sin beaten out of them like a Pearl follower might, but a child of mine would be made to understand that doing wrong hurts God as well as parents/others/themselves.

I call that a kid making a mistake, which is an opportunity to teach. Kids don't do these things out of inherent evil, as the concept of sin would imply. They are simply learning about their world and how it works. When I was 5 I ate my sister's cupcake. So was I sinful for doing that? Did it really hurt god that I ate the cupcake? Why do you have to call a normal part of human development - that of learning boundaries - sinfulness?

[Third]

Reading these types of things are always so heartbreaking. It also proves these types of teachings are equally dangerous and damaging to boys even if they seem to get the better deal as far as marriage, division of labor goes.