Another One Shilling for College Minus

[defrauding]

However, surely some of these sons are going to be sorely disappointed when they don't get into law school as they envision with their CollegePlus education.

I suspect that the law-school hopefuls end up taking correspondence courses through Oak Brook College of Law.

These fundies are setting up a full-fledged, but vastly inferior, parallel education system for their children -- one from which their children have little hope of escaping, given that many of the institutions, like Crown College of the Bible, lack accreditation. I suspect that fundies want the institutions to stay unaccredited for that very reason, in fact.

[SpeakNow]

One of my friends (who is ex-fundy) went to the only college I know of that is both Fundy and accredited. It has really strict rules (curfews, males and female dorms and vice versa, all "foul" language in school plays was censored or altered, dress codes, requirements to go to chapel etc.)

http://collegeprowler.com/freed--hardem ... trictness/

This place seemed great at first until it brain washed me. You can't even make out with people thinking you're a whore. It's ridiculous. AND... what's the deal with everyone coming here to find their "true" love. It's a bunch of bull to me. College is about education, not finding a husband or wife! They talk about how great sex is going to be and blah blah blah! I would love to see their faces when they find out their first experience is going to suck. Step into the real world and find out it's scarier than you thought.

http://www.studentsreview.com/TN/FHU_comments.html

[helloemi]

Liberty University must spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on advertising. You could do a search on Google for "Satanic online college" and an ad for "Liberty University, The largest online university in the world!!!" will pop up on the screen. I'm not a fan of them (at all...) but at least you are engaging in discussion with other students and learning to write a paper. I guess they are too liberal because they allow women to wear pants to class now.

[marmalade]

ooooh, that arrogant little snot really took that last poster to task. How can she know what blogs the person reads or doesn't read (and that FJ is a message board, not a blog...and that FJ'ers know to copy/paste in different windows so as not to be tracked back here)?

I should know because that was my post and she cut it to smithereens to make her snipey little digs. I have just replied that I'd like to see her papers (since she claims all she knows how to do is "take a test"). As an English major, you write papers. Lots and lots of papers that are not conducive to the College Minus! CLEP mill. I'd stake my English degree (earned at the top public university in the country) against hers from the only college that awards degrees from the CM! program. I may have also told her that her analytical skills left something to be desired.

Let's see if she has the balls to post it. And Jazzy, if I did hotlink from here, I hope you see this so you know that the real world think you and your daddy are major

[Buzzard]

The truth, like so many fundie approved scames, is found in the fact that parents maintain full control over their offspring. They cannot go to a state school, online or not, because they would expose said precious arrows to teh ebil liberuhls, lesbians, and potential to see the real world. Even an online degree from an accredited university will require readings that arent gothard approved, the teaching of critical thinking, and a true study of history. It also may expose the flaws in the fundie homeskool enterprise when lil johnny cant "solve for x." There would be a huge blogging disaster when all the little princes and princesses who were "educated" on gothard's homeskool books fail out of "real school."

Enter College Plus! Dont like Betty Friedan? Dont worry, we dont read The feminine Mystique. Dont want your child to see a penis? Dont worry, we dont teach biology! Hate gays? Dont worry, your child wont actually meet one thats comfortable and "out" so there's no risk in humanizing them... History? Whats the Comstock Act? We dont teach that either. Its all good!

[helloemi]

Since Marmalades comments were posted... I'm wondering what the 12 that were deleted said :-0

[emmiedahl]

Nothing had been deleted yet when I posted the link. Many were polite, well-thought-out but mildly critical comments. I wonder if CollegeMinus asked her to delete them. One comment I cannot find had a Christian woman saying that she found great support for her faith at a state university--can't let that get out! If education is not the enemy and a degree is more than a piece of paper, CP would go out of business.

[Elle]

Collegeplus Fail right here...no English major should write like this:

That last "sentence" is not a full sentence.

I think she thinks that using a lot of punctuation means she's smart, especially for using ellipses in place of commas.

[chaotic life]

Unaccrediated Fundie schools will go exactly the way the father of them all is going. Bob Jones University is struggling mightily. Liberty University, otoh, who sought both accredidation AND a full complement of online degrees, is the largest private school in the country.

It's just not that hard to get a degree that is legit, even online.

[Elle]

http://www.collegeplus.org/duggars/accreditation

I like how it was phrased to make it sound like Jinger getting a degree from there will hold the same weight for applying at Ivy League schools as degrees from anywhere else. Too bad Ivy League and grad schools look at how many credits were earned versus CLEP'd.

College Minus itself IS NOT IN ANY WAY ACCREDITED. AT ALL. So you spend $13,000-$16,000 to get a Bachelor's ( http://www.collegeplus.org/whatitcosts ) from a school whose accreditation link takes you to a page on Jinger Duggar.

[emmiedahl]

The two state universities nearest me both offer online degrees. If you went to community college, then a state college, you could finish a degree without ever leaving your headship's authority. But you might actually have to learn something, heaven forbid.

[emmiedahl]

btw, it cracks me up that CollegeMinus has pre-med on the list of majors. For so many reasons. First, because pre-med is not a major. You take the standard list of pre-med classes but your major is whatever you choose. I am a double major in social work and molecular biosciences, for example. Second, because CP acknowledges that you need to take several years of courses at a real, in-person university. So what do you need CP for again? You cannot CLEP out of Organic Chemistry ffs.

[helloemi]

The headship could find the woman a nice accredited Christian online program from anywhere in the country. If you attend Liberty online you won't be defrauded with their blue jeans and facial hair.

Since online degrees are the same as attending classes on your diploma, I imagine I look like quite the traveler with an undergrad from Illinois and grad school in Pennsylvania while residing in Florida.

[JesusFightClub]

Oh Jazzer. What are you doing?

In your post you are not only complaining about a FJist (who just MAY have something to teach you) you actually admit that you are pursuing a substandard degree. Er, great.

You are not an idiot, although you write like shit (you don't "satiate" problems, FFS, you "solve" them) and you deserve better. Cause right now you are wiping infant bottoms and dreaming of a Masters. And after you get the Masters? You'll be wiping infant bottoms with a Masters.

Is that really what you want? Ask yourself that and be totally honest.

And I am not saying that from any kind of righteous I-got-my-whole-life-right perspective. I have fucked up countless times. But, Jasmine, you will too, and you are trying too hard not to. It's not avoidable. In trying to escape, you're sailing into the rocks.

I feel a terrible pity for you and I am not sure why as I normally tend towards "come the revolution" when it comes to you lot. Save yourself, Jazzer, before it's too late (and we all know you read here).

[erunerune]

I just wanted to surface for a sec to say this is why I have always carried a torch for JesusFightClub. The actual author of Fight Club was injured in a car crash today and I hope he recovers nicely.

[Buzzard]

Oh Jazzer. What are you doing?

In your post you are not only complaining about a FJist (who just MAY have something to teach you) you actually admit that you are pursuing a substandard degree. Er, great.

You are not an idiot, although you write like shit (you don't "satiate" problems, FFS, you "solve" them) and you deserve better. Cause right now you are wiping infant bottoms and dreaming of a Masters. And after you get the Masters? You'll be wiping infant bottoms with a Masters.

Is that really what you want? Ask yourself that and be totally honest.

And I am not saying that from any kind of righteous I-got-my-whole-life-right perspective. I have fucked up countless times. But, Jasmine, you will too, and you are trying too hard not to. It's not avoidable. In trying to escape, you're sailing into the rocks.

I feel a terrible pity for you and I am not sure why as I normally tend towards "come the revolution" when it comes to you lot. Save yourself, Jazzer, before it's too late (and we all know you read here).

Lets say I have 16k in cash (because we all know that debt is ebil) and want to buy a car. I look for gas efficiency, safety ratings, perks etc. Do I buy the one thats been inspected and guaranteed by multiple experts or the knock off that claims its better and provides internet links to "happy customers?" Do I look at the one that has accountability or the one who's claim to fame is infomercials on youtube or blogs? Why is this even a question???

CollegePlus! College plus or college +, whatever gimicky way you say it still = scam. It takes people who think they're bucking the traditional system and getting a "deal" when theyre not. The very fact that we have to click through links to figure out if they're accredited, fake accredited, or just made the fuck up shows the value of their degree.

I feel bad for "jazzy" because she doesnt realize what she's missing. She's stuck at home "loving" her brother believing that this is all there is in life - and that daring to GO to Rice would cause her to miss something important. Yes, children grow, but guess what... SO CAN YOU. We grow through experiences and knowledge. Every new person you meet has the chance to bring something into your life that you ARE missing out on sitting at home changing diapers. If you step out in the world and CHOOSE to stay at him then God bless, but dont pretend like the choice of a fouth rate bullshit online "degree" was an educated one.

[Elle]

I just wanted to surface for a sec to say this is why I have always carried a torch for JesusFightClub. The actual author of Fight Club was injured in a car crash today and I hope he recovers nicely.

Couple days ago, a semi toppled on his car. He's a local, and since accidents involving semis always make local news, combined with a best-selling author, and it was all over the news. His injuries are minor and he's expected to recover just fine. :)

[Buzzard]

So atleast one of their "graduates" made it to law school

3fo60McfAzQ

Too bad he appears to have failed the NY bar (I say that because he was pending results when the video was posted in december and results came out the last week in october as well as his linkedin profile)... guess he took it again in february and is pending results?

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jdshea

Ave Maria is a catholic law school, horribly ranked but atleast ABA accredited.

[emmiedahl]

The moral of the video: "College is a waste of time for those of us who won't make it into a decent grad school either way! College Plus helped me to go straight to law school even though I still can't pass the bar and thus cannot work in my field!"

[SpeakNow]

JEN-k_3V8wE

And they claim you're learning things at a "Harvard level"

[samurai_sarah]

I don't understand why the focus on this College Plus gimmick. It seems to me that in almost every state, you can find at least one state school with generous online schooling options these days. You pay in-state tuition for a fully accredited degree from a state university versus paying a middle man just as much to tell you how to circumvent the educational process.

DH earned both his Bachelor's and Master's online. It was Computer Science and International Management, so degrees that work well online. Back then, there were few non-profit, state school options for online so he went out of state. If you go out of state, then your options for online education are limitless. Plus, lots of online schools, even state schools, no longer have in-state versus out-of-state categories when you are only online, instead of in a classroom. There are more options than University of Phoenix these days.

If the objection is sitting in the classroom, then online should be a viable option. However, the CollegePlus format wants to skip even that. It also wants to focus on "life experience" yet it caters to teenagers and very young adults who have very little life experience in the first place. I think it's a scam. I think someone doing their program is going to have little to no career options after spending the same amount as they would spend for a normal education. Guess that doesn't matter for the girls they want to entrap in the first place. However, surely some of these sons are going to be sorely disappointed when they don't get into law school as they envision with their CollegePlus education.

As you said, for some degrees it works. For others, not so much. In the social sciences, a lot of the actual learning comes from interacting with other students. A debate doesn't necessarily work as well online, as it does in the classroom. One of the "big" things in the social sciences is to get students to "think", i.e.: critically assess everything, come up with an answer, and possibly change your mind within the matter of minutes.

CollegeMinus doesn't work that way- especially as you said, in law school- because in real life, you have to learn how to engage and argue. The best law degree in the world isn't going to do you much good, if you don't know how to interact. Bascially, that renders a CollegeMinus degree to decoration on the wall. :roll:

[Elle]

JEN-k_3V8wE

And they claim you're learning things at a "Harvard level"

Wow. That kid really thinks he got the same education out of the book than he would have at Harvard because his dad ordered the same book. I'd like to see him take the test at Harvard. He would probably cry within five minutes and change his tune.

He also has very poor speaking skills. He wasn't stuttering ("M-m-m-my e-e-education w-w-was", for example, and I'm not talking about people who do that since it's something not really controllable) but was hemming and hawing a lot. Um, uh, uh, and, uh.

[Elle]

So atleast one of their "graduates" made it to law school

3fo60McfAzQ

Too bad he appears to have failed the NY bar (I say that because he was pending results when the video was posted in december and results came out the last week in october as well as his linkedin profile)... guess he took it again in february and is pending results?

http://www.linkedin.com/in/jdshea

Ave Maria is a catholic law school, horribly ranked but atleast ABA accredited.

I love how he left out what he's doing at that law firm. The way he talks makes it sound like he's a lawyer. At best he's a paralegal, probably a secretary. He says "research assistant," but with how much he's stretching it in the video, for all we know he's a secretary who is occasionally asked to look something up. And what is a juries doctor associate?

I wonder how many times he'll sit the bar. And it's not cheap each time he does.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

As you said, for some degrees it works. For others, not so much. In the social sciences, a lot of the actual learning comes from interacting with other students. A debate doesn't necessarily work as well online, as it does in the classroom. One of the "big" things in the social sciences is to get students to "think", i.e.: critically assess everything, come up with an answer, and possibly change your mind within the matter of minutes.

CollegeMinus doesn't work that way- especially as you said, in law school- because in real life, you have to learn how to engage and argue. The best law degree in the world isn't going to do you much good, if you don't know how to interact. Bascially, that renders a CollegeMinus degree to decoration on the wall. :roll:

Pretty much. People like to laugh at humanities degrees, or the various "critical XXX theory" type classes, but they have a very valuable purpose - they teach you how to question absolutely everything, how to pick apart an argument, how to nitpick individual words even, to criticize.

That's a good skill to have (even if 99% of actual life doesn't require you to take it quite THAT far) but that's precisely what the fundies will not stand their kids being involved in, ever. They teach you how to be cynical and question authority (authority of any kind!) and so it's pretty much anathema to received religion.

If you look at the blogs of earnest "look at me, I'm intelllectual and an autodidact!" SAHDs, so many of them talk about CLEPping and what not, or how much more educated they are than the poor rural rubes they perhaps shared a community college with (if they dared to risk CC) but it's all very much learning what the textbook says and then answering a bunch of multiple choice questions. Even in literature, CLEP doesn't make you write a paper, make an argument, stand in front of a room and explain why you the author had insight, or any of that.

They learn one narrative of history, as if there is only the one, and answer questions about the facts, the who and when, on a test. That's pretty much it.

There are quality online classes. Surely it suffers some compared to real life but the spirit can definitely be there if a class has the right attitude and maintains open chat boards and the like, requiring arguments, all that. But I suspect the fundies aren't going for those. More often what I've seen are people who swallow the bitter pill of a class, doing the minimum and sort of snarking at how they're so much smarter than the other people because they've been homeschooled, but never venturing anywhere that they will have to question anything or be put on the spot. In the rare case that they are, well, it's persecution, of course. We get back to the "my paper was given a low grade because the teacher doesn't like my beliefs, but oh well, she's a product of public schools no doubt so what can you do?" craziness.

The sad part is that some of the griping about boredom is legit because those types of "just memorize this by next Thursday" classes ARE boring, and those people aren't being challenged. But they're choosing to not be challenged, by refusing to consider better options.

Shorter version: I wonder how many pages of prose, in total, people have to write to get the College Minus degree.

[lilah]

You know what you CAN take away from this endorsement? The fundie royalty are caving to the reality that the world DOES hold them suspect regarding what they are doing to their daughters. If they cannot get their daughters married off and procreating young, they are increasingly having to turn to SOMETHING other than the PhD of homemaking garbage they have touted on why it was okay to educationally ignore and hold hostage their stay at home daughters for the last decade as the movement has increased.

Jasmine's always going to be an exception to the typical SAHD, royalty or otherwise. She is much more intellectually curious and isn't afraid to read things that don't conform to her lifestyle- Hunger Games, the Help, Room. (I mean really pride and prejudice isn't a fundie princess novel but we've already discussed how the average SAHD misinterprets it because inferential thinking and literary synthesis aren't high priority SODRT skills)

this College plus student claims she got into Georgetown, University of Virginia and William and Mary, nothing to sneeze at. Probably the most successful college minus student who've I've seen in terms of getting into competitive schools. http://www.collegeplus.org/acceleration ... uate-story