Michelle teaches us how to grieve

[MrsYoungie]

parentables.howstuffworks.com/self/michelle-duggar-miscarriage-and-grief.html#mkcpgn=fbtlc1

 

If you read through the drivel you come to this line:

Quote

in the past when I realized that someone had lost a baby that they were carrying and I wasn't sure how to best console them

Didn't she lose a baby 20 years ago? How come it took this last miscarriage for her to know what to say to another grieving parent?

No mention of "Caleb" through the entire article. I am more and more thinking that this first one only happened in the imaginations of her and her doctor.

 

Michelle: I'm on the pill, but I feel sick and uncomfortabe.

Evil Doc: You probably miscarried. The pill will do that to you. It's evil!!!!!

Michelle: Boo Hoo.

Cue 20 years of speeches about how the pill murdered her baby.

[lilwriter85]

Michelle fucking pisses me off on she is acting an expert. People grieve differently after miscarriages and some don't have large public funerals.

[doggie]

she is expert on such things.

[nokidsmom]

parentables.howstuffworks.com/self/michelle-duggar-miscarriage-and-grief.html#mkcpgn=fbtlc1

If you read through the drivel you come to this line:

Didn't she lose a baby 20 years ago? How come it took this last miscarriage for her to know what to say to another grieving parent?

No mention of "Caleb" through the entire article. I am more and more thinking that this first one only happened in the imaginations of her and her doctor.

Same here. Given all the "losing Jubilee" talk, I don't understand why that first miscarriage never gets mentioned. It would the perfect time to bring it up and get even more sympathy. :roll:

I understand losing a baby is tough; my sister lost a baby boy at 36 weeks. But the way the Duggars exploit their kids, both born and unborn, really ticks me off.

[Third]

I wonder if her first miscarriage was so early [like a late more heavy than normal period] not giving birth to a still born fully formed child and this miscarriage is more real. Or she's lying but IDK why I feel I should give her the benefit of the doubt. It seems odd she counts this miscarriage in her number of children but not the first one if she truly believes all children are persons from conception. That makes me question her motives and the whole well we used to use the pill until story.

[Didi]

The more I see J&M talk about Jubilee the more I wonder about Caleb... it's just very weird to me that they changed their entire way of viewing birth control based on Caleb and yet his death (?) doesn't impact them much now when they talk about Jubilee... I guess Jubilee WAS a lot further along? Did anyone ever find out how early Caleb was in his gestation? (is that even the right word? How many weeks pregnant Michelle was?)

[bbfreethinker]

I wonder if her first miscarriage was so early [like a late more heavy than normal period] not giving birth to a still born fully formed child and this miscarriage is more real.

This makes sense. They spout the party line about life starting at conception, but deep down that 1st miscarriage just felt less like a baby than Jubilee did.

[countressrascal]

Caleb=pity

Jubilee=$$$$$

[pixydust]

This makes sense. They spout the party line about life starting at conception, but deep down that 1st miscarriage just felt less like a baby than Jubilee did.

Exactly. The gist that I get is that Caleb was a pretty early on miscarriage (as was Anna's), when you are just pukey and your boobs hurt, they didn't "feel" like babies yet. With Jubilee she was showing, feeling movement, and prob not sick anymore, so it felt like a baby. I think that I would prob feel and act differantly with miscarriages that were so far apart in gestational age.

[Blonde not dumb]

I'm sorry that she miscarried, really I am. No one should have to go through that. However, everyone grieves in their own way, and it feels like the Duggars are really cheapening the emotions of others by presuming that they know how everyone else feels. It's tragic to lose a child no matter how many others you have. But is it really the same thing if you have been dealing with fertility issues and you finally conceive, only to miscarry so close to viability (or anytime)? It is certainly different to lose a breathing child that you have gotten to know as a separate entity from you. Again, not trying to take anything away from the Duggars, and they certainly have every right to be sad and grieve in their own way.

It just pisses me off that they seem to have forgotten about the first miscarriage. For most people, I would understand that as it seems like it was probably a very early loss, which is different from such a late term loss (I'm assuming, I don't know from experience). But the Duggars have built the story of their large family, their claim to fame, on this miscarriage story from 20 years ago. Is it just part of the script now? Makes it all see so fake and almost dirty.

[Witsec7]

Where is Caleb buried?

[Guest Anonymous]

Where is Caleb buried?

In a maxi pad or flushed down the toilet

[2xx1xy1JD]

I had different reactions to my 3 miscarriages.

The first one was diagnosed at 16.5 weeks, and it threw me into a hellish year-long depression.

The second was at 6.5 weeks, and I got pregnant again 2 weeks later. It still bothered me, but there wasn't the massive, active grief.

The third one was at 11.5 weeks, and it was a weird displaced grief + intense worry. There were back pains that wouldn't go away, weird psychological blocks, etc. until we finally realized that we hadn't dealt with our grief and fears.

So yes, it's plausible to me that the Caleb experience is not the Jubilee experience.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Now that I've actually read the article...what's with the word "precious"? She uses it 3 times in the first 3 paragraphs. Can we get her a thesaurus?

Part of me doesn't want to snark too much, because I do think that articles on grieving miscarriage are needed, and they were in short supply when I really needed them in 1998. I just didn't need them to be like THIS - so vacuous. Different strokes for different folks, of course, but I really needed something a bit snarkier and more raw and real.

[silverspoons]

I don't think Michelle handling of Jubliee should be an example of how to grieve. Lots of women follow Michelle as a role model. What if some of them now think they need to have an elborate funeral and burial and can;t afford it(we all know the average ATI/quiverful family does not have the same money as the Duggars).

I hope since the funeral is the finale we don't get a whole next season of grieving.

[DarkAnts]

I am not defending Michelle. I just wonder if the reason this hit her harder is because deep down she knows that she will not be able to have any more healthy babies. She is grieving the loss of her self worth. All she has been since the birth of the first set of twins is a baby machine. Now, she has to find something else to be worthy of.

[pixydust]

I am not defending Michelle. I just wonder if the reason this hit her harder is because deep down she knows that she will not be able to have any more healthy babies. She is grieving the loss of her self worth. All she has been since the birth of the first set of twins is a baby machine. Now, she has to find something else to be worthy of.

Huh, I never thought of it that way!

[Third]

I wonder if she's ever feared that her husband has maybe thought of her dying trying for #20 so he can find a wife with more childbearing years yet. Jim Bob seems to genuinely love her but I wonder if it's a common ATI\QF fear since women are based on their ability to have babies.

[Antigone]

I am not defending Michelle. I just wonder if the reason this hit her harder is because deep down she knows that she will not be able to have any more healthy babies. She is grieving the loss of her self worth. All she has been since the birth of the first set of twins is a baby machine. Now, she has to find something else to be worthy of.

That is pretty much why I have been quiet on the topic, especially when a cousin of mine posted a link to her article and told everyone to read it, it was a good one. I had a miscarriage, but it was early enough on (a month at most) that I didn't realize I HAD been pregnant until it happened, and hindsight is 20/20 as they say. I don't grieve or morn, I didn't name it either, I just moved on with a slight natural curiosity of "what would it have been like..."

So I think it's a mixed bag overall, especially with the potential of any psychological issues she has. Personally I think she is some kind of baby addict or addicted to SOMETHING in the whole process until baby is weaned. We'll never know, sadly, which makes it such a fun mystery. Ha.

[slickcat79]

They have claimed the the first miscarriage happened between the second and third month.

Then the unexpected happened, followed by the unthinkable: Michelle got pregnant, even though she was still taking birth control pills. We thought that was impossible, but we were surprised to find out different! Between her second and third month, Michelle miscarried. When the doctor told us the miscarriage probably happened because she had conceived while still on the pill, we were devastated. To us, it meant that something we had chosen to do—use the pill—had caused the end of the pregnancy.

I can understand feeling differently about a first trimester miscarriage and one that happens at the edge of viability. I think it's very natural to react differently in those cases, especially when J'Caleb was unplanned (perhaps unwanted at the outset), and they were actively trying for J'20. However, that doesn't really fit with the kind of anti-choice mindset that the Duggars are very vocal about.

They would claim that a 10-week fetus is the same as a 20-week fetus, and both are the same as a living, breathing child. If having an abortion at 10 weeks is the same as having one at 19 weeks, then why are miscarriages different at different times? It seems obvious that even the most staunch prolifers do see that embryos are not the same as fetuses, which are not the same as babies or children, they would just never admit it.

I don't believe for a second that JB&M had named the first miscarriage "Caleb" though. I don't think they even think about that loss except in passing. They don't even act like they remember it except when other people bring it up. After so much time has passed and they have had so many more children, I actually think it's reasonable to feel that way. It just makes Michelle sound even more ridiculous and fame-whorish when a miscarriage supposedly started them on the path to a mega-family, and she barely even remembers it :roll:

[MamaJunebug]

Caleb=pity

Jubilee=$$$$$

Also, Caleb = the Duggars were money-grubbing, everyday people

Jubilee = the Duggars are uber-fertile paragons of Gothardism (and still money-grubbing)

(In fairness, we're all money-grubbing, but few of us use our chirruns as the grubtools)

[2xx1xy1JD]

As I said, grief is a very individual thing - but I can easily imagine that the causes of the active grief for Caleb would be long gone, while the ones for Jubilee would still be very much present.

At that early stage of pregnancy, the first miscarriage was likely spontaneous, basically consisting of some very heavy cramping and bleeding, like a very bad period. It wouldn't feel like giving birth, and there wouldn't be anything that looked like recognizable baby. They may not have told people about the pregnancy prior to the miscarriage. They may have had mixed emotions about the pregnancy, and just started to come to terms with it and thought about having another baby around.

It sounds like the dominant emotion after the loss was guilt, thanks to the doctor with an agenda. I had all sorts of irrational guilt that was making me insane, so I can only imagine would have happened if hubby and I didn't have any medical knowledge and a trusted doctor told us that it was all our fault. After 19 kids and no more birth control, though, they had probably worked through the guilt and figured that they had repented and been forgiven. If there was any mourning the feeling of having empty arms, that was quickly remedied. I know that you can't just replace children...but I do have to admit that having healthy children was the ultimate therapy for me. It's hard to miss a fetus when you are holding your baby. I know that my grief is now gone, and all I have left is memory of the grief. I used to channel that memory more often and it had the power to get me worked up, but even that has cooled off over time.

With Jubilee, though, the process would have been harder, because you essentially go into labor and deliver an exceedingly premature dead baby. Their kids, and the entire world, knew about the pregnancy. They knew that they were getting criticism, and had been loudly proclaiming their faith in proceeding with preg. #20. Josie is getting a bit older and her birth was traumatic, so Michelle may have been craving the new baby feeling. At this age, she may be finally facing the idea that her fertility may finally be ending. It's still a very recent loss, and there is nothing that's come along to distract from those feelings of loss.

[spragger]

I am not defending Michelle. I just wonder if the reason this hit her harder is because deep down she knows that she will not be able to have any more healthy babies. She is grieving the loss of her self worth. All she has been since the birth of the first set of twins is a baby machine. Now, she has to find something else to be worthy of.

I think this probably has a lot to do with it. She is not so much a mother as she is a baby factory. She can't just look to the children she already has and enjoy raising them. Will they change the title of their show when she hits menopause? I guess she will just keep trying and the best case scenario for her is that she doesn't conceive again and die in the process of trying to have another child, but instead quietly slips into menopause.

[SpeakNow]

I think this probably has a lot to do with it. She is not so much a mother as she is a baby factory. She can't just look to the children she already has and enjoy raising them. Will they change the title of their show when she hits menopause? I guess she will just keep trying and the best case scenario for her is that she doesn't conceive again and die in the process of trying to have another child, but instead quietly slips into menopause.

New title: 19 Kids: Life After Menopause

[Austin]

I don't even know if I believe there ever was a "Caleb". It has crossed my mind more than once that the oral-contraceptive-caused-miscarriage of "Caleb" was just a necessary invention of the whole Duggar narrative.