Explain These Attitudes Toward Disability

[DarkAnts]

If he can't work a regular job with reasonable accommodation (any reasonable changes an employer could make to accommodate him, such as a job that normally required a lot of standing but could be done while sitting on a stool or in a chair), then he won't be considered disabled. Are there any jobs in your area that he could work with reasonable accommodations? A job assembling stuff, a desk job transcribing, etc.? If yes, they he'll have a very very hard time getting approved for full disability. It's hard enough even for people who are chronically ill and in the hospital all the time to get approved. They're worried about all the people who think they're disabled because of normal aches and pains and so don't want to work. So it's typical to be denied the first time, no matter what the condition or circumstances. For people who really are disabled (and I can't judge this regarding your husband since I just don't know what jobs are in your area and the severity of his knee or hearing issues, or how the TB affects things), then we do need to be taking better care of people. I know of some disabled people getting so little they're homeless because it's not enough to get a place to live with, including a nurse with a large tumor making her unable to stand and she's in the hospital often, a severe epileptic, and a double-amputee with mobility issues in both her hands. The last one recently got a home with a friend, but the other two don't have homes. It's awful how disabled people in general are treated in this country, like burdens and many feel ashamed because they're treated like burdens, like the husband's friends.

Those "friends" need to realize that the meaning of disability isn't to be bedridden.

VA disability is different then the federal government disability. A person VA disability status needs to be examined by a VA doctor. The doctor submits their medical findings to the VA. The VA makes a decision based on the doctors report. You can get both federal social security money for being disabled and receive VA disability money too. You can also work full time and still receive VA disability money.

[reds]

The program i am talking about is this one.

The Assured Income for the Severely Handicapped (AISH) program provides financial and health-related assistance to eligible adults with a disability. The disability must be permanent and substantially limit the person’s ability to earn a living. AISH clients may also be eligible to receive supplemental assistance (a child benefit and personal benefits) through the AISH program.

I dont think i am an extremeist. But the two cases i know of and i am sure if i ask around i can find a few more do not qualify for the defination of Severely Handicapped.

The BIL's girl is a con artist with the happy discovery that she had/has Graves... we are still not sure if she is lying about that much. She uses the program to get money, narcotics and sympathy. When her case worker or doctor says something then she applys for a job with the disabled organization and never shows up, says she has a relaspe and away she goes again.

The former friend anounced out of highschool that she was not planning on working a day in her life. Immediately got pregnant, went on welfare, is personally aquainted with the people at the food bank and when welfare was going to cut her off, suddenly started having such bad depression that she "couldn't function". So then the AISH started. She still does everything she wants to do just not a job. Her one of two children just turned 18 and her payments from welfare were reduced to match, she countered with getting pregnant so she could continue on.

I am sorry if i used the wrong word in Rampant, but if i know two people that are abusing the system (and others that could tell me how to do it but they dont or whose spouses/SO's do abuse the system) out of the limited (say 200) people i know that is a pretty high percentage.

As far as i know the government has been asked by the opposition to do an audit on the system but have refused.

ETA:

Asked two people around me at my office.. they came up with 8 other people that they know are abusing the system.

[lexiloumarie]

I dont have a lot of experience in knowing very many people who are on disability. The one experience I do have is a super poor example so my vision is cloudy by most standards.

Here, in Alberta, we have a program called AISH. It is a income suppliment for people to are disabled. I believe it was set up for the mentally handicapped so they could live on their own or in group homes. It is widely abused now by all sorts of people.

My BIL was dating a woman who claimed she was on AISH for Graves disease. In truth she would have been a functioning member of society if it wasn't for her love of crack. She was using the government run program as a supplement to her addiction including receiving prescriptions.

The other example i have is a former friend applied for AISH because she didn't want to work. Had a doctor claim she was too depressed to function normally in society but spends a lot/most of her time at various church groups.

I feel that if you have a disability and require help you should receive it but abuse of the system is rampant. Also, how or why does your neighbor know that you are on disability, who you vote for, or if you are wearing pink panties. There are just somethings you just don't mention in any conversation.

Just because she's also doing something illegal, doesn't mean she wasn't qualified to begin with. And also, she can't lie to the government, any government, and get disability. They all require actual medical testing and have doctors on staff.

You don't have to tell your neighbors you're on disability. Stop going to work for two months, wait for them to get nosy and ask.

YOUR FRIENDS/PEOPLE YOU KNOW ARE NOT A SOURCE OF INFORMATION. See information like this and this to understand that you are pushing tired, false sterotype in support of classism.

[Eclipse]

A have a couple of friends who are on disability and stay on it even though they want to work because they can't afford the drugs they need to function without it and most of the jobs they can get, especially in this economy, don't come with drug plans. I don't fault them for that, I fault the system to make them pick between drugs for depression or to save what is left of their eyesight and gainful employment.

The way the United States treats its Veterans is appalling. Has anyone heard of Project Salute from the University of Detroit Mercy? law.udmercy.edu/index.php/projectsalute Its a program they run nationally and within Detroit that provides free legal services for Veterans who are disabled due to the high number of applications that are rejected. They have mobile law clinics that travel and they also help train local lawyers in the places they visit as well. I think its horrible that many veterans who are disabled and its obvious the disability is comes from their service (brain injuries, missing limbs, etc.) need a lawyer to help them get disability. i had friends who participated with the project while at law school and their stories are heartbreaking. In the interest of full disclosure Detroit Mercy is a Catholic university.

[debrand]

I think that VA disability is different than civilian. This is confusing so be patient with this explanation.

Up to a certain percentage, the veteran gets a check but the amount of the check is deducted from his retirement. The veteran doesn't really get any extra money but he doesn't pay taxes on the money he recieved from disability. Beyond a certain percentage, the veteran does get additional money which isn't deducted from, his paycheck.

My husband is only considered at 30% now. However, the VA forgot to file his hearing loss so that the percentage will ultimately be a little higher but he probably won't get any additional money.

Maybe an example will make that more clear. The followings numbers are made up

Say someone receives 1200 dollars in retirement and they get a monthly check of three hundred in disability. That three hundred is taken from their retirement. They don't make any additional money but they are taxed as if their retirement was only 900 dollars.

Yes, that is very confusing and I don't understand it either.

[Minerva]

The program i am talking about is this one.

I dont think i am an extremeist. But the two cases i know of and i am sure if i ask around i can find a few more do not qualify for the defination of Severely Handicapped.

The BIL's girl is a con artist with the happy discovery that she had/has Graves... we are still not sure if she is lying about that much. She uses the program to get money, narcotics and sympathy. When her case worker or doctor says something then she applys for a job with the disabled organization and never shows up, says she has a relaspe and away she goes again.

The former friend anounced out of highschool that she was not planning on working a day in her life. Immediately got pregnant, went on welfare, is personally aquainted with the people at the food bank and when welfare was going to cut her off, suddenly started having such bad depression that she "couldn't function". So then the AISH started. She still does everything she wants to do just not a job. Her one of two children just turned 18 and her payments from welfare were reduced to match, she countered with getting pregnant so she could continue on.

I am sorry if i used the wrong word in Rampant, but if i know two people that are abusing the system (and others that could tell me how to do it but they dont or whose spouses/SO's do abuse the system) out of the limited (say 200) people i know that is a pretty high percentage.

As far as i know the government has been asked by the opposition to do an audit on the system but have refused.

ETA:

Asked two people around me at my office.. they came up with 8 other people that they know are abusing the system.

I'm sorry if it sounded like I was implying you're an extremist. I don't think you are. With regards to the two people you mentioned, I believe you that they are probably not eligible for AISH. I am curious what your co-workers had to say about their 8 people, because the way most disabilities manifest themselves, an outsider cannot tell they have it and/or cannot judge the severity. In the case of my mom accusing our neighbour of abusing the system, she was assuming information about his health that only he and his spouse probably know. I'm also interested why our experiences seem to show such a difference between Ontario and Alberta, besides the differences in political climate. AISH and ODSP seem to be the same, the only difference being that in Ontario you're covered for temporary disabilities too.

If this doesn't seem rude or prying, could I ask how your brother in law's girlfriend is able to keep getting assistance without being sick? Graves isn't an illness where the doctor just has to take the patient's word, so it sounds like maybe the applications don't get revisited after the initial doctor's report.

Edited to remove extra word.

[lilwriter85]

I dont have a lot of experience in knowing very many people who are on disability. The one experience I do have is a super poor example so my vision is cloudy by most standards.

Here, in Alberta, we have a program called AISH. It is a income suppliment for people to are disabled. I believe it was set up for the mentally handicapped so they could live on their own or in group homes. It is widely abused now by all sorts of people.

My BIL was dating a woman who claimed she was on AISH for Graves disease. In truth she would have been a functioning member of society if it wasnt for her love of crack. She was using the government run program as a suppliment to her addiction including receiving perscriptions.

The other example i have is a former friend applied for AISH because she didnt want to work. Had a doctor claim she was too depressed to function normally in society but spends alot/most of her time at various church groups.

I feel that if you have a disability and require help you should receive it but abuse of the system is rampant. Also, how or why does your neighbour know that you are on disability, who you vote for, or if you are wearing pink panties. There are just somethings you just dont mention in any conversation.[/quote]

In the situation with my friend's dad, the neighbors knew because the dad was injured in a car accident and was in the hospital for almost two months. The family lives in a small town where mostly everyone knows each other and some people find out some things easily.

[BayLee_10]

I think a big part of this attitude comes from the notion that if you were a "real man" you would just suck it up. If you ask for help, you're just a whiner. If you admit to pain or disability, you're not manly. This contributes to a lot of problems all over society, not just for the military. It discourages men from asking for help with mental health issues when they really need it, as well as denying them needed physical care.

It also comes from a very callous capitalist mindset, where people are just resources to be used up. Once you get hurt, you're not useful, so nobody cares about you any more. Not my problem, charlie, too bad for you.

It's not a new problem--Rudyard Kipling wrote a famous poem about it called "Tommy," which was a nickname for British soldiers as G.I. Joe is for Americans.

http://faxmentis.org/html/kipling.html

I was looking for this poem, thank you for posting it!

[Guest Anonymous]

Debrand,

I know I'm one the most hated people on FJ right now, and this isn't a suck up post. I just felt compelled to respond. As far as I'm concerned your husband and all veterans deserve free medical care for life and at taxpayer expense. He served and risked his life for our country, and we at the very least owe him that. The disabled deserve the same..free medical care for life. The way we treat veterans and the disabled is down right disgusting!

[debrand]

Debrand,

I know I'm one the most hated people on FJ right now, and this isn't a suck up post. I just felt compelled to respond. As far as I'm concerned your husband and all veterans deserve free medical care for life and at taxpayer expense. He served and risked his life for our country, and we at the very least owe him that. The disabled deserve the same..free medical care for life. The way we treat veterans and the disabled is down right disgusting!

Thank you.

So, far the VA hasn't treated my husband badly. However,there seem to be a lot of veterans who fall through the cracks or don't realize that they could receive help.

[Pudicitia]

we are still not sure if she is lying about that much.

I imagine that with rampant prejudice against people claiming disability benefit, it might seem better to claim to be playing the system than to face the speculating ire of your neighbours and co-workers...

A previous poster mentioned the increase in disability hate crime in the UK - that's definitely true. I live in England, and have friends who have been attacked in the street, had sticks kicked out from under them, had obscene things shouted at them, since our government has begun trying to severely cut back on the provision of disability benefit. People bed-bound with terminal cancer have been denied benefits and declared fit to work, only to die a matter of days later. As a UK tax-payer, I am disgusted by this. Not because there might be people 'wasting' my money - of course any system is going to be played - but that people in genuine need are being hurt and abandoned by society in the name of somehow eradicating fraud. I would much rather that some people who did not 'deserve' this money received it, but that a good level of support for the 'genuinely disabled' was maintained than that we started some kind of witch-hunt about cheating the system that resulted in many people being deprived of support they desperately needed!

[Guest Anonymous]

there seem to be a lot of veterans who fall through the cracks or don't realize that they could receive help.

Oh, no doubt about that. My uncle is a veteran of Vietnam and Desert Storm. When he runs into other veterans who need help, he tells them how to get it or how to try to it rather.

[emmiedahl]

I know people who are abusing the disability system and it sucks. It sucks because so many people need it and are turned down, when in a perfect world the funds would be easy to access.

Military veterans are a different story. They risked their lives in a dangerous and low-paying job in which most people come out damaged. These are not lazy or entitled people--they volunteered ffs. The government should give them the benefit of the doubt and offer as much help as possible.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

However,there seem to be a lot of veterans who fall through the cracks or don't realize that they could receive help.

Nothing to do with disability, but:

There's a state program here in Illinois where veterans can go to any state college or university for free (NO tuition!). There are some caveats surely but it's pretty wide open, as far as I know. State law. This includes people who go to non-eligible schools (out of state or private) but who want to take some classes in the summer while home on break at public schools to get ahead.

BUT! Illinois being in the shape that it's in, it's refusing to reimburse the colleges for the tuition waivers. Meaning, each veteran that uses this program costs the colleges a ton of money, and at the same time, the state is slashing the budget for higher education also.

As a result, the colleges are still offering the plan (as they must) but they're really trying to bury all information about it, so lots of people can't find out about the deal. No one is going to offer up that information. They'll answer questions, but aren't about to tell someone they can get something for free.

It's a kinda twisted situation. I would not be surprised if some of that attitude happens in the disability arena too, where there's programs available but on one hand they kinda hope no one will ask about them...?

[LadyBlue]

I dont have a lot of experience in knowing very many people who are on disability. The one experience I do have is a super poor example so my vision is cloudy by most standards.

Here, in Alberta, we have a program called AISH. It is a income suppliment for people to are disabled. I believe it was set up for the mentally handicapped so they could live on their own or in group homes. It is widely abused now by all sorts of people.

My BIL was dating a woman who claimed she was on AISH for Graves disease. In truth she would have been a functioning member of society if it wasnt for her love of crack. She was using the government run program as a suppliment to her addiction including receiving perscriptions.

The other example i have is a former friend applied for AISH because she didnt want to work. Had a doctor claim she was too depressed to function normally in society but spends alot/most of her time at various church groups.

I feel that if you have a disability and require help you should receive it but abuse of the system is rampant. Also, how or why does your neighbour know that you are on disability, who you vote for, or if you are wearing pink panties. There are just somethings you just dont mention in any conversation.

I suspect there's more to these stories than you know, because getting on AISH is HARD. Far easier to just get a doctors note and be "not expected to work" on welfare than get onto AISH. Both my husband and a friend's boyfriend haven't gotten it yet and they're legit disabled, although just looking at my husband you'd think he was more than well enough to work.

[Minerva]

Nothing to do with disability, but:

There's a state program here in Illinois where veterans can go to any state college or university for free (NO tuition!). There are some caveats surely but it's pretty wide open, as far as I know. State law. This includes people who go to non-eligible schools (out of state or private) but who want to take some classes in the summer while home on break at public schools to get ahead.

BUT! Illinois being in the shape that it's in, it's refusing to reimburse the colleges for the tuition waivers. Meaning, each veteran that uses this program costs the colleges a ton of money, and at the same time, the state is slashing the budget for higher education also.

As a result, the colleges are still offering the plan (as they must) but they're really trying to bury all information about it, so lots of people can't find out about the deal. No one is going to offer up that information. They'll answer questions, but aren't about to tell someone they can get something for free.

It's a kinda twisted situation. I would not be surprised if some of that attitude happens in the disability arena too, where there's programs available but on one hand they kinda hope no one will ask about them...?

Hmm, you get a free bachelor's degree upon joining the Canadian military, and you begin to serve after you're done your degree. Do you have to serve first before you get free education in the American military?

[emmiedahl]

Hmm, you get a free bachelor's degree upon joining the Canadian military, and you begin to serve after you're done your degree. Do you have to serve first before you get free education in the American military?

No you don't, the program here is called ROTC. I know people who have used it. You get your tuition paid plus a stipend for living expenses. I don't think a lot of people know about it. They will even pay for medical school.

[Terrie]

Outside of certain conditions, it's actually fairly hard to get on disability, and the money is rather pathetic. I know a couple people with chronic, progressive conditions. They need help from other programs to make ends meet for basics, like heat, electricity, etc. They are also required to reprove their conditions (genetic and progressive) every few years. I have no doubt that abuse of the system exists, because there is no such thing as a system that is not abused, but it's hardly the problem that critics make it out to be.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Hmm, you get a free bachelor's degree upon joining the Canadian military, and you begin to serve after you're done your degree. Do you have to serve first before you get free education in the American military?

The program I'm talking about is a state program, separate from ROTC (but we have ROTC too). For the state program you need to have served first, it's a veterans' thing.

Tuition just continues to go up meanwhile as the states cut funding for everything they can, and that very much includes higher education.

I have a relative who joined the Navy on a program (not sure the name of it) where she (yes, a GIRL!!) got free schooling all the way through the equivalent of medical school (at a medical school, but one actually run by the military that educates the various branches plus also NIH people if I recall correctly, and does regular military training in the summers too) and that was in exchange for serving a full 8 years after education is all finished, though it seems she will stay in for a career. She's been done with education and fully serving now for a long time. Part of that time was in Italy (which is why I was invited on the spur of the moment vacation to visit).

Last year she went on a cruise around South America, providing charity medical care in various countries. I have to admit, reading her letters, I have to think "how's THAT for 'adventure,' Dougie..." :)

[anniebgood]

Federal Workers Comp disability person here. Injured working for Uncle Sam and have been through the ringer as far as the employer. Am now separated from the employer but getting disability. It's not a lot and I certainly couldn't live on it unless I applied for other assistance. What I hate is people poo-pooing the unseen disability. I'm not bleeding and I'm not on crutches, but I do have a huge deficit to my right arm/shoulder. It's exacerbated by DJD in the joint and also a cervical disc herniation. When it rained it poured effect.

I think veterans deserve the best and more. I have a friend whose son had a TBI from an IED blowing up his truck. It took nearly a year for the VA to actually admit he had a more severe degree of disability than they had rated him. The paranoia, headaches and memory loss didn't clue them in. Now he's rated 90% and receiving compensation.

People think just because we look like we are healthy we are moochers. Trust me, Uncle Sam be it the military or federal jobs (that people think are cushy)is a hard taskmaster for those in low pay grades.

Debrand, I hope your husband can avail himself of everything he's due and more.

[emmiedahl]

The program I'm talking about is a state program, separate from ROTC (but we have ROTC too). For the state program you need to have served first, it's a veterans' thing.

Tuition just continues to go up meanwhile as the states cut funding for everything they can, and that very much includes higher education.

I have a relative who joined the Navy on a program (not sure the name of it) where she (yes, a GIRL!!) got free schooling all the way through the equivalent of medical school (at a medical school, but one actually run by the military that educates the various branches plus also NIH people if I recall correctly, and does regular military training in the summers too) and that was in exchange for serving a full 8 years after education is all finished, though it seems she will stay in for a career. She's been done with education and fully serving now for a long time. Part of that time was in Italy (which is why I was invited on the spur of the moment vacation to visit).

Last year she went on a cruise around South America, providing charity medical care in various countries. I have to admit, reading her letters, I have to think "how's THAT for 'adventure,' Dougie..." :)

I looked into this program, but I am too old. Navy hospitals are in crazy awesome places--Italy, South Korea, Japan. And the charity ships are an amazing opportunity to really help people who need it. /offtopic

[ADoyle90815]

Outside of certain conditions, it's actually fairly hard to get on disability, and the money is rather pathetic. I know a couple people with chronic, progressive conditions. They need help from other programs to make ends meet for basics, like heat, electricity, etc. They are also required to reprove their conditions (genetic and progressive) every few years. I have no doubt that abuse of the system exists, because there is no such thing as a system that is not abused, but it's hardly the problem that critics make it out to be.

That's true, the Social Security Administration tends to deny everyone SSDI/SSI right away, and in most cases, the person who is legitimately disabled needs to have a lawyer help them win an appeal of the denial. Usually, they make someone prove they're still disabled every few years, even if the disability is obvious to the average person.

[emmiedahl]

Is it easier to get for children?

I have a distant relative who has a boyfriend who gets it for a hurt back--he works under the table mowing lawns. At least 5 of the children in their blended family get it. One is very obviously disabled, the rest get it for ADHD. When two of them were in foster care they were weaned off the medication and were successful, but they were re-diagnosed and applied for social security the second the mom got them back.

[lovefromgirl]

That's true, the Social Security Administration tends to deny everyone SSDI/SSI right away, and in most cases, the person who is legitimately disabled needs to have a lawyer help them win an appeal of the denial. Usually, they make someone prove they're still disabled every few years, even if the disability is obvious to the average person.

All this? This is the story I'm used to hearing. I don't actually know anyone who's faked it in order to get on disability, but I know plenty of people who should be and aren't.

[nomi]

My ex is active duty and my flame is separated but still national guard. Both of them are/were airborne (paratroopers) and both have had jump injuries that have drastically impacted their lives. My ex lives with a constant level of pain and just recently had an MRI and they found out that he's broken one of the vertebrae in his neck. My flame had his arm torn out of socket and can only lift it up to about waist height. To get his arm above his head he has to bring it in front of him, flip it around, and then bring it up in a circle. Both of their knees are shot.

My flame has been IED'd twice and as a result has two TBIs, no short term memory, profound hearing loss, shrapnel all over the right side of his body (he had this bump on his arm and he was messing with it when a piece of something popped out!!), and a healthy case of PTSD (which is from other experiences too, not just the IEDs). We were talking about it and he said he had something like 95% disability.

The thing that bothers me about military pay is the fact that if you retire from the military and receive disability benefits (through the military) it is subtracted from your retirement pay and you really don't receive anything extra. It's total BS. I think the only "benefit" is that it isn't taxable.