Theresa of Theresa's Tapestry is pregnant again

[silvia]

theresastapestry.blogspot.com/2012/03/desperate-for-you.html

This poor woman. I just want to bash my head against a wall reading her most recent missive. It sounds like she doesn't really like the idea of being Quiverfull at all, but feels like she has to because "this is where God has us right now." She seems quite upset with being pregnant about half a year after having her first baby at age 20.

I just don't understand why people like her feel that the realm of family planning must be uniquely sacrosanct and closed off to human intervention. According to quiverfullers' logic, controlling your family size is not "God's will," a will that is presumably made obvious because it's what happens without any interference. Yet if her baby got sick with a deadly disease, I can guarantee you she'd be on a beeline to the emergency room to interfere with lifesaving drugs rather than accept that "God's will" for his life was for him to die before reaching his first birthday. It frustrates me that Theresa's confused logic is leading her to what she seems to acknowledge will be a life of constant overwhelm and drudgery--a life she doesn't actually want or desire.

[delilahdog11]

. According to quiverfullers' logic, controlling your family size is not "God's will," a will that is presumably made obvious because it's what happens without any interference.

I am sure that I am about to make the same point that others before have already made. I apologize if that is the case.

The quiverfull logic of family size being controlled by god based on the observation that sex betwee a man and woman results in a baby is complete bullshit. I understand that fundies believe God controls everything, but helllooo sex is a natural act and it is biology that causes a woman to get pregnant or not. If a woman doesn't get pregnant then it isn't because something biologically is off either with her or the man. Not it is because god closed her womb. Willfull ignorance is scary.

If Gothard can convince women that her body isn't getting pregnant because that is what her body is programed to do then he can also convince women that their doctors are lying to them about the risks associated with pregnancy or with having more babies then her body can stand. It is bullshit.

How many times does the Bible mention that people should have as many children as possible? Is it all over the bible or in just a few places? The fundies love to cherry pick certain verses to support their extensive dogma.

Also where in the Bible does it mention about the evils of the birth control pill? Oh it wasn't around yet? But you can't change the bible or teachings that come from it for our modern world that would be ridiculous. Facts in the bible can only used for to manipulate for political gain or to gain wealth and fame. I just read a quote from the Dali Lama who said if Buddhism and it's teaching are proven wrong by science, religion, or another insitution then Buddhism needs to be changed. Why can't we all be a bit more open up minded?

It also makes me insane when I hear fundies say that because no baby results when two people of the same sex have sex that this shows how it is an immoral act in god's eye. God would have given them the ability to make a baby. Sorry. Sex is nautural. If a baby comes of it. It is because the two people who fucked each other had the correct biological components to procreate. A barren woman having sex with husband must also be engaging in an immoral act because no baby will come from them having sex. What the fuck?

I guess to most fundy leaders the scientific method is just another one of those liberal conspircacies. Or else they would realize how flawed their logic is. God may be one reason a woman is getting pregagnt, but have they tested all of the other possible methods on why pregnancy occurs. People just want easy answers. I want to shake the fundies and tell them heaven is right here, right now.

[fluttershies]

Anyway, if fundie kids don't get proper sex ed, then they're not going to know about fertile times in a woman's cycle, so I bet a lot of ignorant new married couples have sex at the wrong times for conception.

[silvia]

How many times does the Bible mention that people should have as many children as possible? Is it all over the bible or in just a few places?

I'm not sure if the Bible EVER actually says people should have as many kids as possible, or that they should not use birth control--those are just conclusions people in certain extremist circles have jumped to. The verse quiverfullers often cite is Psalm 127:5, "Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them," referring to children (actually just to sons, but I digress). But that verse does not imply that you should never limit your family size. A family of three, four, or five children, for instance, could be construed as "full" of children, yet the parents could easily have used birth control/ natural family planning methods at some point in their reproductive history.

[Arielkay]

Just looked at her blog - the space btwn wedding photos and the announcement of future bump was - pretty much nonexistent. I scrolled back - so she married on Nov 1 and by the 22nd she knew she was pregnant? Three weeks? How would you even know you were pregnant that fast? Unless she had sex before the wedding, but being fundie, well . . . either way, I think it's kind of sad that they had no time to be together just as a couple. I got pregnant with our eldest when we were married just 9 months - and I thought that was really too fast. These people get pregnant on their honeymoons, and are thrilled - like it's this big race. Just - WTF.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Just looked at her blog - the space btwn wedding photos and the announcement of future bump was - pretty much nonexistent. I scrolled back - so she married on Nov 1 and by the 22nd she knew she was pregnant? Three weeks? How would you even know you were pregnant that fast? Unless she had sex before the wedding, but being fundie, well . . . either way, I think it's kind of sad that they had no time to be together just as a couple. I got pregnant with our eldest when we were married just 9 months - and I thought that was really too fast. These people get pregnant on their honeymoons, and are thrilled - like it's this big race. Just - WTF.

I knew I was pregnant with my current pregnancy at 3w4d. My normal PMS symptoms that come along w/ my vitamin D deficiency didn't show up. No excrutiatingly horrific joint pain and tightness....

But I'm pretty tuned into my body, I use FAM and condoms as birth control when we're trying not to get pregnant, and we were trying as well.

However, we waited 3+ years to have kids after we got married, I can't IMAGINE coming back from my honeymoon pregnant

[Esther]

It drives me crazy when fundies are like "I have to be grateful for this blessing because some people can't have kids! How can people have abortions if some people can't have kids! EVERYONE NEEDS TO HAVE ALL THE KIDS BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE CAN'T HAVE KIDS!"

... Just because I could jump out of the window, being lucky enough to have two functioning legs, doesn't mean I should. Just because I could get tattoos all over my face, doesn't mean I should. This argument makes no sense.

[BelieveinScience]

Question- Fundies seem to get pregnant really soon after getting married. Are they planning wedding dates around the females menstrual cycle??

[eaglemom]

I notice that she's already decided that her first baby is no longer a baby (at 8 months), but a little boy. I haven't read her blog before, but I see hints of fundie style discipline in how she writes about her baby. Poor little guy, he only got to be a baby for 8 short months.

I think fundies get pregnant so quickly because they hold hands too tightly before the wedding . . .just my theory.

[Cannelle]

Just looked at her blog - the space btwn wedding photos and the announcement of future bump was - pretty much nonexistent. I scrolled back - so she married on Nov 1 and by the 22nd she knew she was pregnant? Three weeks? How would you even know you were pregnant that fast? Unless she had sex before the wedding, but being fundie, well . . . either way, I think it's kind of sad that they had no time to be together just as a couple. I got pregnant with our eldest when we were married just 9 months - and I thought that was really too fast. These people get pregnant on their honeymoons, and are thrilled - like it's this big race. Just - WTF.

I conceived my son on October 15 (I called my now ex at work to tell him I was ovulating, and he came home early :lol: ), and got my first faint positive on the 25th, and a darker for-sure positive on the 27th (which was my mom's birthday, so that was kind of cool). It can happen.

I agree with you, it always makes me a little sad that these people have no time together as a couple. Most of them get to spend NO time together alone before they're married, and then they turn around and immediately start throwing children into the mix. That seems like a serious recipe for unhappiness, and I wonder if that's why so many of these women sound like shrill harpies when they blog- they doth protest too much, because they're so damn unhappy that they spend their days screeing like a possum at the whole world about how fulfilling their lives are because they're trying to convince themselves.

[silvia]

Just looked at her blog - the space btwn wedding photos and the announcement of future bump was - pretty much nonexistent. I scrolled back - so she married on Nov 1 and by the 22nd she knew she was pregnant? Three weeks? How would you even know you were pregnant that fast? Unless she had sex before the wedding, but being fundie, well . . . either way, I think it's kind of sad that they had no time to be together just as a couple. I got pregnant with our eldest when we were married just 9 months - and I thought that was really too fast. These people get pregnant on their honeymoons, and are thrilled - like it's this big race. Just - WTF.

Actually, I think she got married at the beginning of October, according to this post: theresastapestry.blogspot.com/2010/09/bride-and-groom.html. (She posted her wedding pictures after the fact.) So while they almost certainly got pregnant the first cycle after the wedding, it probably wasn't a wedding night (or earlier) conception.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'm not sure if the Bible EVER actually says people should have as many kids as possible, or that they should not use birth control--those are just conclusions people in certain extremist circles have jumped to. The verse quiverfullers often cite is Psalm 127:5, "Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them," referring to children (actually just to sons, but I digress). But that verse does not imply that you should never limit your family size. A family of three, four, or five children, for instance, could be construed as "full" of children, yet the parents could easily have used birth control/ natural family planning methods at some point in their reproductive history.

The 'quiver' that the biblical writer referred to was the container that hunters and soldiers kept their arrows. It actually didn't pay to stuff the quiver too full with arrows. A hunter or archer who did was apt to find himself unable to defend himself because the arrows broke, became warped or were jammed in too tightly to get them out.

[lovefromgirl]

The 'quiver' that the biblical writer referred to was the container that hunters and soldiers kept their arrows. It actually didn't pay to stuff the quiver too full with arrows. A hunter or archer who did was apt to find himself unable to defend himself because the arrows broke, became warped or were jammed in too tightly to get them out.

Sounds about right for a lot of these arrows!

[ophelia]

Question- Fundies seem to get pregnant really soon after getting married. Are they planning wedding dates around the females menstrual cycle??

I think we already discussed this in a Morton-related thread and yes it seems like thats the way they are planning their wedding dates. Most fertile days around the wedding night to be pregnant as quickly as possible and to make sure that the menstruation doesn't interfere with their sex.

[fundiefan]

Not even sure if she agrees with being a baby machine, but she'll be one anyway.

Sounds like the kind of life everyone wants to live.

Stupid is as stupid does. I hate to say it, but at least the extreme fundies believe they're supposed to outbreed everyone else. To do it when you aren't even sure it's what you believe is just plain stupid.

[NurseNell]

Several years ago I heard or read something about women being more fertile on their honeymoon. It doesn't make sense medically if you're not mid-cycle and I don't remember where I heard or read it. I suppose in part a wedding date would be chosen for after one's period and not close to the next one so that might explain more weddings occurring around ovulation time. Also, the honeymoon is usually a time of frequent sex, which could increase the chance of pregnancy if everything else was right. My family has had several honeymoon pregnancies, not planned.

[Miggy]

The 'quiver' that the biblical writer referred to was the container that hunters and soldiers kept their arrows. It actually didn't pay to stuff the quiver too full with arrows. A hunter or archer who did was apt to find himself unable to defend himself because the arrows broke, became warped or were jammed in too tightly to get them out.

Can someone define "full"? My quiver is full. Our bedrooms/beds are all full. My time is occupied. My income is sufficient. Any more and we would have to look for a bigger house and a higher paying jobs. My quiver only has three! My fundy sister has an overstuffed quiver and yes, her children/arrows are being damaged.

I wonder about the fact that fundys always quote the "quiverful" bit to justify having as many children as possible but ignore the "of one's youth" part of the phrase. Duggars, Bates and the many other other 40-something couples are not young, they are not instructed to keep putting themselves and their children through pregnancy, miscarriages, premmie births!

[Third]

My 2.5 year old is still a baby. Yet many of my fundy-lite not BC using friends their 2.5 year olds have 1 or more younger siblings already! I cannot imagine that. Then again I thought it would be considered natural to space babies by nursing if you are lucky enough to have your fertility suppressed by nursing.

Yet most people I know who leave it up to God really seem to try. I actually called one of my QF friends on it. How it is up to God if you are weaning early, having sex during fertile times even if you don't really want to have sex etc. She says the desire to have a baby is like Elizabeth so it's still Biblical and up to God.

[alysee]

My aunt has her hands full with 10 kids- from ages 18-2, her house is exploding. They have a parents room, my grandma's room, and 3 rooms for ten kids. They have a boys room, a girls room and a babies room...and I found out she is 3 months pregnant....they built a "schoolhouse" in the back because they needed the extra room for my grandma. It makes me feel so bad for my grandma, and or grandma Duggar because hey should be able to red, and watch tv and do all these things but they are on laundry or child care duty. End rant...

[SisiL78]

I was just reading the blog and looking for wedding photos.... still looking.

But the I found the engagement description. TOOO FRIGGIN' CUTE. I cannot believe he made a tuna can ring box.

I have to say that I was very impressed.

I think I like Theresa, she sounds like someone you could go and have a cup of coffee with and have a good time.

[Mattie Chatham]

I was just reading the blog and looking for wedding photos.... still looking.

But the I found the engagement description. TOOO FRIGGIN' CUTE. I cannot believe he made a tuna can ring box.

I have to say that I was very impressed.

I think I like Theresa, she sounds like someone you could go and have a cup of coffee with and have a good time.

I was just thinking this same thing! She sounds like an interesting, enjoyable person, despite her circumstances. She'd be one of those friends you want to get relaxed enough to enjoy herself and cut loose a little bit, and would end up having the time of your life if you did.

[silvia]

I was just thinking this same thing! She sounds like an interesting, enjoyable person, despite her circumstances. She'd be one of those friends you want to get relaxed enough to enjoy herself and cut loose a little bit, and would end up having the time of your life if you did.

I agree! That's one of the reasons I feel sad she seems to be needlessly consigning herself to a life she does not want.

[silvia]

So Theresa's sister (and close friend) Karen has come out with an anti-Quiverfull stance: appetiteofliving.blogspot.com/2012/05/birth-control-can-glorify-lord.html . This gives me hope that Theresa will see reason and someday follow suit--I think she'll enjoy her life and her existing kids a lot more if she does.

[guidedbybobafett]

I'm not sure if the Bible EVER actually says people should have as many kids as possible, or that they should not use birth control--those are just conclusions people in certain extremist circles have jumped to. The verse quiverfullers often cite is Psalm 127:5, "Blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them," referring to children (actually just to sons, but I digress). But that verse does not imply that you should never limit your family size. A family of three, four, or five children, for instance, could be construed as "full" of children, yet the parents could easily have used birth control/ natural family planning methods at some point in their reproductive history.

I tried to google 'family size in biblical times' (perhaps not the most rigorous search terms) and came up with a lot of people basically saying "People had sooo many kids back then! Though just to backtrack I actually have no idea how many kids they had but read this verse of the bible!!!"

I can't imagine that the infant survival rate was very high back then, considering that its only exploded within the last 75 years or so. In the 1800's women were losing an incredible number of children to disease in infancy and early childhood, so the amount of children that a woman could feasibly conceive and bring to term didn't necessarily equate to the amount of children she was able to raise into adulthood. I don't want to sound insensitive or talk about anything potentially upsetting here, but generally most of the children that women are able to birth nowadays are going to live, meaning that one a year is actually one a year now, when for most of recorded history that was not the case. Nobody with 20 children is "doing it biblically", because I would imagine the amount of households who managed to have that many children and send them off into the world was minuscule if they existed at all.

[emmiedahl]

"Die to self" is such a grammatically nonsensical phrase. I keep hearing it in fundie circles and I know what it means, I just think they could find a term for it that is less hilariously awkward.