Do fundies not do prenatal testing?

[Feberin]

All I had was the quad/nt/whatever testing, and I had people react that way to me.

I can't imagine a circumstance where I would have terminated, but I still wanted info--I consider info to be a hot commodity!

I agree information is important! And the NT ultrasound gave us some of the best pictures during my pregancy with my son. I used that reason to explain to my very pro-life MIL why we were having it done this time around.

[bananacat]

Prenatal testing isn't just about abortion. Even if I were unwilling to have an abortion in any case, I'd still want to know ahead of time if my child would have Downs Syndrome or some other severe health problem. A few months of extra prep time could give my child a better life.

There are certainly valid reasons to forgo the testing too. But it isn't just all about abortion so some fundies probably would get the testing. Of course the extreme fundies don't believe in therapy or other aids so they might still not see the point, but I think fundie-lites would be just as likely as anyone else to get the testing.

[NurseNell]

A friend who's a nurse practitioner had her first pregnancy at 40. She had an unltrasound but elected not to have any other testing. She's very pro-choice and has referred patients for abortions. She knew she was at higher risk for Down's but she and husband knew they would love their baby no matter what. She had lots of experience with Down's Syndrome teens and young adults. She had no testing other than an ultrasound with her 2nd pregnancy at age 42. Both kids are now healthy teenagers, no Downs.

A friend recently had a baby with Down's. They had discovered this through testing in the second trimester. They appreciated knowing ahead of time so they could get services in place. They are evangelical Christians.

[tacky]

I was raised fundie and still in the church for my first two pregnancies. I did not do any testing with either. I was taught that it was wrong to test because I was supposed to have faith that God's will would prevail and whatever the outcome nothing interventional would have been acceptable anyway; again, that was considered "playing God." It sounds stupid now, but back then I believed it, as did just about every woman I knew. Of course I really only associated with other fundies, so...

By the time I had my third baby I had come to my senses and left the crazies and had AFP and ultrasounds done. The ultrasounds were so awesome and I was sad that I had allowed myself to be robbed of that experience with my first two.

[Witsec7]

Prenatal testing isn't just about abortion. Even if I were unwilling to have an abortion in any case, I'd still want to know ahead of time if my child would have Downs Syndrome or some other severe health problem. A few months of extra prep time could give my child a better life.

There are certainly valid reasons to forgo the testing too. But it isn't just all about abortion so some fundies probably would get the testing. Of course the extreme fundies don't believe in therapy or other aids so they might still not see the point, but I think fundie-lites would be just as likely as anyone else to get the testing.

This.

[Katiebug]

It can be very useful for parents and doctors to know ahead of time that a child with serious medical needs is going to born. The parents are prepared, and the extra preparation on the part of the medical team can save the baby's life.

Exactly. This is why I chose to have prenatal screening, and why I chose to have an amnio when the first trimester screening returned a risk of Down Syndrome greater than 1 in 50. I was in my late 20s at the time and the maternal fetal medicine specialist's miscarriage rate from amnio was lower than 1 in 1000, so we chose to take the risk and have the amnio in order to know for sure. If the baby did have Down Syndrome we wanted to know so that we could come to terms with it, find a supportive pediatrician, arrange for appropriate child care and other services, etc. By the time I had the amnio at 16 weeks we would not have considered termination. As it turned out the baby had a normal karyotype.

Recently a blood test for Down Syndrome was introduced for high risk women in the US - it is extremely reliable, approaching the accuracy and false positive rates for CVS and amnio. If in a future pregnancy I have a screening come back as high risk for Down Syndrome I would choose the MaterniT21 blood test rather than an amnio simply because there is no risk of miscarriage with a maternal blood test. The risk from amnio is very low, all things considered, but given the choice I'll go for no risk.

[Guest Anonymous]

The fundie-lites in my family do prenatal testing. They say it's a good thing to do so that you can be prepared and seek out advice & help for raising a special needs child.

[nomi]

For me, knowing about a Downs diagnosis ahead of time was utterly crucial because I was planning a homebirth. If I'd had a downs baby that plan would have been thrown out the window so that my baby could have the proper care team necessary at the birth. DS babies have issues, especially with heart problems and muscle tone. A basic CPM or even a CNM wouldn't have the knowledge to properly care for or resuscitate a DS baby.

[1004srs]

A 20 week scan was not offered to my with my son - no prenatal testing was offered at all. I was 34.

At 36 everything was offered including amnio. I declined it all. Personal reasons, but I was worried that amnio would cause miscarriage.

[Mommy22alyns]

I can understand why some people might opt out of amniocentesis/CV sampling. However, I find it hard to understand why anyone would opt out of ultrasound/serum screening. Both provide important information that can dramatically alter management and neither involves any danger to the baby. The tests may be uncomfortable/nerve racking for the mother but will not involve any significant risk to the mother either.I realize that financial constraints may limit care in the US but would not the care of a severely disabled child also significantly impact finances?

We routinely do screening for cancer and other medical problems. We routinely do screening for hearing/vision problems and learning disabilities. So I am not sure why prenatal screening is so very different.

Agree. I am all for ultrasounds and did a blood test after my 20 week scan with my youngest revealed some minor problems. If I hadn't had ultrasounds with her, we both would have likely died.

[alaeangelorum]

I agree information is important! And the NT ultrasound gave us some of the best pictures during my pregancy with my son. I used that reason to explain to my very pro-life MIL why we were having it done this time around.

Over here you have scans at 12 and 20 weeks and no others unless you have some other problem or are in a study. They do nuchal translucency if you want at the 12 week scan but if you're not having the Down's screening then you just don't have the nuchal measurement done. So you still have the scan...

I can understand people wanting all the info available but that isn't for everyone. It's not just about abortion but also the risk to the pregnancy and whether you are ok with that.

[BelieveinScience]

I can understand not doing some of the prenatal testing things. My friend went through prenatal testing was told everything was fine and her baby was born with Down Syndrome. I know several people who were told that they had a child with a heart condition or a good chance of having Down Syndrome and the babies ended up being fine. So they worried their entire pregnancies for nothing. So I can understand opting out of it.

[delilahdog11]

How exactly does this demonstrate one's trust in God? No, I don't expect to have a logical answer.

Ya know, I would not have aborted* but I had all those tests. I wanted the time to prepare. Fortunately, I didn't have to. All those weeks, you could have spent reorganizing your lives for the extra challenges, mourning the child you thought you were going to have, and get happy about meeting this kid. But I'm guessing people like this make no accommodations for their special needs child. Thus proving they do not in fact value all life.

*In the above case, I would have. There's no point in making people, yourself or your baby, suffer because you misunderstand how medicine and biology work.

I get this sense that in many fundy groups it is discouraged from being sad as it is an insult to all the blessings given to you by god. Are parents turning stories like the one above into a "testimony" of god's love as a way to deal with feelings of guilt, sadness, hurt, betrayal by their god? Caxpax do you think that is why this family did that? Only god could give us so much suffering and we are truly blessed when we trust in god's will. To me that seems be the logic for most fundies.

I am pregnant now and I have gone back and forth about when would I decide to abort the fetus. I am getting every test done that is offered to me and I have decided that I can not make that decision ahead of time, but will have to decide based on the information garnered from each test. I have a chronic illness that would make it difficult to take care of a child with mental or physical disability, but that does not mean I would have an aborotion. I would need to look at my limitations and the limitations of the child and prepare my life accordingly to take care of child with a disability.

If the child is going to suffer for a few short weeks after being borned then I would abort. Everything else is a grey area for me and my decision will be based on the health of the child. My child may develop cancer that kills them before they turn three. If I know that now, would I have an abortion? I don't think so because I wouldn't get to have three years with my child. But then I think how much would my child suffer during those three years?

Sorry. Rambling. But more information is not evil. But it does help a mother or a father get mentally, physically, and emotionally prepared for a child that will have different needs than a "normally healthy" baby.

[SealFan1963]

A 20 week scan was not offered to my with my son - no prenatal testing was offered at all. I was 34.

At 36 everything was offered including amnio. I declined it all. Personal reasons, but I was worried that amnio would cause miscarriage.

I had a similar experience, I was 34 when I got pregnant with my daughter and turned 35 during the pregnancy. After my birthday, 3 months into the pregnancy the nurse would ask me at just about every appointment if I was going to have amnio due to my advanced maternal age - WTF? I finally asked my midwife to make her stop since we had already discussed it prior to my turning 35 and had decided on AFP testing and ultrasound.

Funny thing was I had a much healthier pregnancy at 35 than I did at 28.

[delilahdog11]

I do have a question: do most fundies opt out of prenatal testing because that isn't trusting god?

If so, when do they draw the line when it comes to other medical procedures? Do they also not get rountine physicals or screenings for things like prostate cancer, breast cancer, colon cancer, high blood pressure, etc? Wouldn't any sort of diagnostic test demonstrate that they don't trust god with their health and well-being?

(Also don't the Duggars put their kids in braces? Doesn't that go agaisnt Gothard's teaching that we can not alter or changed the appperance that god gave us. )

I wonder if it is okay for men to get their prostate checked? Or to be checked for testicular cancer? Testicular cancer can result in the removeable of one or both balls, which would get in the way of baby making. Is that doctor lying about the risk of cancer? The same way doctors lie to women when they are advised that having another baby carries a potential risk of health complications for the mother or child and/or could put the life of the mother or child in danger.

The Quiverfull movement preaches that doctors who warn agaisnt future pregnancies are just lying because: a) doctors hate or are scared of Christians, b) doctors only want to give every woman an abortion, c) all doctors are liberal scum who believe in global warming, the over population myth and only want people to have one or two children or d) doctors are conspriring together to keep godly women from having more babies to limit the amount of soliders in god's army. Oh wait anyone with a medical degree is an elistist and therefore is an infidel and the infidels don't want the god fearing Christians to outbreed them. Watch out for the tan or brown skinned doctors they are most likely muslim and will probably try to kill your baby because they hate all Christians.

This is why it is much better to go with a highly trained Gothard/ATI mid-wife. Who probably wasn't even allowed to see a picture of boy fetus because she would be defrauded by his massive untit.

I know other people have posted how Kelly Bates and maybe Michelle both took measures to save their pregnancies. How is that trusting your womb to god? I understand if complications happen later in the pregnancy and measures are taken to keep the little bun in the oven for another few days or a week, but what about early in the pregnancy when most miscarriages happen.

Are they saying that it is not god's will to have a miscarriage even if that naturally happens for many women? Instead they are going to take man made drugs to prevent the miscarriage?

I am not agaisnt women taking whatever steps necessary to save their unborn baby, but Kel Bates actions do not match her beliefs. If it is okay to take measures to save the unborn baby and to trust doctors to help. Then why isn't it okay to trust doctors when they say no more babies, in order, to save the life of the mother? God maybe speaking through the doctor. Why is the doctor's advice to stop baby making not part of god's will as will? God closing the womb?

These people's lack of logical thought astounds me. I wonder if I will get to point were I am not shocked.

want mothers to add more soliders to god's army. That would make sense that the men are allowed to listen to the advice of doctors regarding their health, but women are not. After all women are performing their holy duties and god would never take a mother away from her children and women are just brood mares born to do one thing. God with its divine knowledge wouldn't design a women's body so that she couldn't bear as many children as god blessed her with.

[Black Aliss]

Sarah Palin had amnio, at least with her youngest, because she makes a big thing about not aborting Trig even when she knew he had Down Syndrome. I did not have amnio with either of my two successful pregnancies because of the increased risk of miscarriage, because I wanted whatever baby I was carrying. I didn't have ultrasounds either, even though that was becoming the standard of pre-natal care. I just didn't feel there was enough data on long-term effects of ultrasound exposure. My midwives would have referred me for an ultrasound if there was any indication of something being amiss but they didn't see any reason for having it done routinely.

Santorum's father-in-law is an obstetrician who specializes in pre-natal testing and it's clear that Karen had pre-natal testing with at least one of her children (the one they delivered at 20 weeks), although the former Senator would like to outlaw pre-natal testing for people who can't be trusted to make the "right" decision, ie the one that he and his wife made.

[Silver Springs]

Speaking as what I suppose you consider a "fundie" (I fall in line with Assembly of God, etc churches), the only prenatal testing I chose to have was the standard ultrasound at 20 +/- weeks. I had the triple screen blood test with my first, the one that can say if you're at an increased risk for having a baby with Down's Syndrome, but would not have had any further testing had that result come back "positive".

In my subsequent pregnancies I declined that screen, with my doctor's support, so to speak. It can give false positives, and knowing that I would not have had further testing, he agreed with my choice to not have it.

When I was expecting my now-11 year old son, the nuchal screen was never mentioned; I don't even know if they were doing it in 2000. I learned of it before I was pregnant with my 22 month old, but it was not offered to me. My OB's practice does not do it, they refer it out to another place an hour away. But as I said, it was never suggested to me, and by the time I had my first appointment during the pregnancy, I was past the window where it's performed.

I was never interested in amnio or the like because of the increased chance of miscarriage, and because I would not have terminated a pregnancy, which yes is due to my faith as well as my personal feelings.

If there *were* a test that determined homosexuality? I wouldn't have that done either, and if I did I would not terminate based on that either. Absolutely ludicrous. Shame on anyone who would.

[browngrl]

I have deleted this post because I felt that it was off topic and bit rude to boot.

[Minerva]

(Also don't the Duggars put their kids in braces? Doesn't that go agaisnt Gothard's teaching that we can not alter or changed the appperance that god gave us. )

There are medical indications for having braces. So every single Duggar kid with non-perfect teeth must have just happened to have these indications....

[Feberin]

Over here you have scans at 12 and 20 weeks and no others unless you have some other problem or are in a study. They do nuchal translucency if you want at the 12 week scan but if you're not having the Down's screening then you just don't have the nuchal measurement done. So you still have the scan...

I can understand people wanting all the info available but that isn't for everyone. It's not just about abortion but also the risk to the pregnancy and whether you are ok with that.

My midwife's office does an 8ish week ultrasound to check for viability and for dating. Then they send you to the hospital for a NT ultrasound and a 20 week scan if you choose to have them but the 20 week is pretty much assumed while the NT they give you a choice. Assuming there are no additional problems they don't do any more ultrasounds. When you find out you're pregnant they give you a slip of paper with the 3 options (no scan, NT scan and blood test, NT, blood test and amnio). It's given to everyone regardless of age.