the duggars say 'good bye'

[lilith]

But doesn't that make miscarriage and even abortion a good thing? Babies going straight to heaven?

[Patsy]

Doug Philips says miscarriages of believers go to heaven because God called them there, but probably not miscarriages of heathens and abortions, God's agency is required. (http://www.visionforum.com/news/blogs/d ... 0/07/8542/)

I think he's a Calvinist, though, and a lot of Calvinists believe that the children of saints are... partially sanctified? Or something? So the fact that the Duggars are kind of aligned to Vision Forum but really follow Gothard's teachings (which aren't Calvinist, right?) might mean that they don't accept that.

Chick tracts say that all babies go to heaven, "even abortion!" (http://chick.com/reading/tracts/0283/0283_01.asp)

Does anyone know if Gothard teaches anything on it?

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Doug Philips says miscarriages of believers go to heaven because God called them there, but probably not miscarriages of heathens and abortions,

That is just astonishing. Basically he is is saying that God sends the children to the nonbelievers (God's blessings, right?) and then punishes the babies for having bad parents. Who would want to worship such an evil jerk?

It is always interesting to see what sort of contortions believers put themselves through to try and reconcile their beliefs. I once asked my fundie in-laws if pets go to heaven. Mother-in-law said "Yes" just as Father-in-law said "No." They glared at each other. It was something that they had never discussed together. Mother-in-law didn't dare disagree but she was unhappy because she loved her pets. So because her headship had laid down the law and she had to be submissive her entire view of heaven was changed.

[geniebelle6901]

If they follow the KJV then Luke 18:16 is probably what their thinking:

"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God."

This is taken to mean that a little child/baby is an innocent and goes to heaven because he/she is free of sin because she/he doesn't know right from wrong. This is a common belief among Protestants who don't Christen/Baptize infants. I think the Duggars are thinking once a child begins to know right from wrong that's when the being sinful thing starts.

[geniebelle6901]

Doug Philips says miscarriages of believers go to heaven because God called them there, but probably not miscarriages of heathens and abortions, God's agency is required.

Well, then, that leaves no doubt in my mind where Doug is going when he dies...straight to Hell! :evil:

[RR88]

I'm watching the episode about Michelle's miscarriage, and I have a question: Does Michelle have more than one "copy" of that blue top, or does she just wear it over and over again?

[CrazySister]

No clue. However, your question got me thinking. Do Boob & Mullet have their own clothes and are they in a closet in their bedroom? Sounds stupid, but since they're into the whole your-underwear-are-my-underwear line of thinking...

[marmalade]

They have their own closet.

[bananacat]

Maybe Michelle is like those cartoon characters and she just opens a closet to see a dozen identical blue shirts. Or maybe there was some big sale and Jim Bob couldn't pass up the opportunity to buy 50 blue maternity shirts for $3.

[RR88]

I'm surprised that the kids, during this episode, suggest "boy names" Jarvis and Javier. That's a bit...exotic for the Duggars, isn't it?

[Maude]

Did you catch the part where John David (I think it was) suggested 'Jefferson Davis' for a boy? That really just cemented my thoughts about them.

[Mela99]

Speaking of miscarriages, I wonder if "Baby M" of Josh and Anna's got the same treatment that Jubilee got. Anna doesn't strike me as the type who would want it all out there, but Josh lost an opportunity to tweet funeral photos of his own kid :?

[lilith]

Speaking of miscarriages, I wonder if "Baby M" of Josh and Anna's got the same treatment that Jubilee got. Anna doesn't strike me as the type who would want it all out there, but Josh lost an opportunity to tweet funeral photos of his own kid :?

She didn't get a funeral and fuss for her miscarriage cause she's not mother of the year Michelle.

She did "share" about it whilst ministering at a women's prison, as an example of how she trusted in the lord through hard times, and how she understood that life wasn't always easy. It struck me as particularly smug, like she was saying "I've had hard times too, but I trusted in the lord and dealt with it the right way, that's why I have such a wonderful life" to women who were in prison, so the implication was that they didn't deal with hardship in the right (Gothard approved) way.

[Mela99]

She didn't get a funeral and fuss for her miscarriage cause she's not mother of the year Michelle.

She did "share" about it whilst ministering at a women's prison, as an example of how she trusted in the lord through hard times, and how she understood that life wasn't always easy. It struck me as particularly smug, like she was saying "I've had hard times too, but I trusted in the lord and dealt with it the right way, that's why I have such a wonderful life" to women who were in prison, so the implication was that they didn't deal with hardship in the right (Gothard approved) way.

Hm. Well, that's not obnoxious in the least. So what's the RIGHT way? Sit down, shut up, and submit?

[lilith]

Hm. Well, that's not obnoxious in the least. So what's the RIGHT way? Sit down, shut up, and submit?

Pretty much. Do what Daddy says, then do what headship says, and the harder things get the more you should praise god was the general theme.

I found the whole concept of a sheltered, privileged, 22 year old fundie girl preaching in a woman's prison about hardship and telling the women that they just needed to have faith and praise god for whatever he dished up in their lives horribly patronising.

[kb2]

Pretty much. Do what Daddy says, then do what headship says, and the harder things get the more you should praise god was the general theme.

I found the whole concept of a sheltered, privileged, 22 year old fundie girl preaching in a woman's prison about hardship and telling the women that they just needed to have faith and praise god for whatever he dished up in their lives horribly patronising.

If it was an adult women's prison, I would think that a number of the women she spoke to have had miscarriages. I hope she didn't perpetuate the idea that there's a "right" way to react to a pregnancy loss.

[lilwriter85]

Maybe Michelle is like those cartoon characters and she just opens a closet to see a dozen identical blue shirts. Or maybe there was some big sale and Jim Bob couldn't pass up the opportunity to buy 50 blue maternity shirts for $3.

:lol: Good theory.

[Anxious Girl]

:lol: Good theory.

Dammit. It's like you read my mind and knew what I wanted to type! :( ;)

[lilith]

But Michelle has a varied and exciting wardrobe! She sometimes wears her green maternity shirt with her black skirt!

Just like all the kids are individuals - some of them like pickles and some....... dont..........

[Anxious Girl]

But Michelle has a varied and exciting wardrobe! She sometimes wears her green maternity shirt with her black skirt!

Just like all the kids are individuals - some of them like pickles and some....... dont..........

No, no! Individuality is bad in God's eyes... He wants everybody to obey him and be hypocritical jackasses! Besides; only men can be individuals; silly. Wives are just an extention of their husbands. :roll: /sarcasm

[lilith]

No, no! Individuality is bad in God's eyes... He wants everybody to obey him and be hypocritical jackasses! Besides; only men can be individuals; silly. Wives are just an extention of their husbands. :roll: /sarcasm

So what's a Duggar girl to do if she marries a man who doesn't like pickles? Or aqua net like Daddy? It's all so horribly complicated for the poor things!

[phoenissadido]

Wait, which ones don't like pickles? :shock:

[Mela99]

No, no! Individuality is bad in God's eyes... He wants everybody to obey him and be hypocritical jackasses! Besides; only men can be individuals; silly. Wives are just an extention of their husbands. :roll: /sarcasm

I believe in the episode it was "Some people don't like chocolate ice cream."

Smuggar was in rare form. "The thing that makes me mad is when people say we don't have individuality. We all have something! A hobby... or, a food!"

Food = individuality setting you apart from the crowd.

[lilith]

I love how he equates a food with a hobby. Sorry Josh, most people's hobby is more important to their sense of self than a favourite food.....

[Miggy]

Gee, I thought my brother and I were individuals because he likes outdoors and I like indoors, because he likes sport and I like music, because he likes the quiet life and I enjoy a crowd, because he likes life in the city while I enjoy the country...

How wrong could I be! I like pickles and he doesn't. That must be what makes us individuals.