You're Going to Hell

[MandyLaLa]

I've never understood this fundie attack method. No one can prove there is a hell and if the person you're damning to hell doesn't believe it exists, how do you send them there,

And yes I get the fundie logic that there is 100% absolutely a hell, so of course people can be sent there.

The circular logic of this drives me nut, so if anyone has a sane, rational explanation how you can send someone somewhere they don't believe exists, I would seriously love to hear it.

[debrand]

In their mind, hell does exist and it is more terrible than anyone can imagine. Sometimes the warning is because the person truely believes that they are helping the person avoid going to an terrible existence. They want to warn the person in order to save them.

Other people are just being hateful and assume that no one can not be terrified of the same things that they are. And I'm sure that for some it is a self congratulatory way of asserting their superiorty by saying that the someone deserves eternal torture.

[celestial]

Actually, what I don't understand is, if a person really and truly believes that other people are going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity, how is it possible for them to just cheerfully go about their daily business, perhaps occasionally trying to evangelize someone? Shouldn't they be frantically trying to save people from this impending doom? If I knew a building was going to blow up or something and I saw people going into the building, I would be doing everything in my power to stop them from going in. The smug attitude many Christians seem to have about others going to hell is what I don't understand. How could people be full of such hate for others?

[fakepigtails73]

The only time it happened to me my reply was that I'd rather be in hell sharing a beer with people like Bon Scott, Cliff Burton and Janis Joplin (a fundie told me that I'd go to hell with "all the rockers like the ones on your shirt"-I was wearing a METALLICA t-shirt) than to be bored to death in their version of heaven playing harp on a cloud forever and ever... :twisted:

Some fundie wrote a book describing what heaven is supposed to look like (I wonder how he found that out), and he had a Q&A on a blog. He wrote that in heaven one can have a cigar and a scotch with Winston Churchill while debating politcs (!), so when a reader asked him if in heaven one could smoke a joint with Bob Marley, he replied that is was not possible because pot is illegal. :lol: That made me LMFHO!! I wish I'd remember what the book was...Never read it save for the chapter on aforementionned blog.

[chiccy]

Actually, what I don't understand is, if a person really and truly believes that other people are going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity, how is it possible for them to just cheerfully go about their daily business, perhaps occasionally trying to evangelize someone? Shouldn't they be frantically trying to save people from this impending doom? If I knew a building was going to blow up or something and I saw people going into the building, I would be doing everything in my power to stop them from going in. The smug attitude many Christians seem to have about others going to hell is what I don't understand. How could people be full of such hate for others?

When my aunt was dying, my mom's crazy evangelical friend went to her bedside and tried desperately to get her to accept Jesus. This (my aunt) was a woman with 2-3 days to live, dying from a particularly nasty, aggressive and rare brain disease. She could barely talk, and she had a menorah by her bedside to indicate that she was Jewish for the hospital chaplains, and yet this friend was in there proselytizing.

It was ridiculously inappropriate. And yet, I don't hold it against my mom's friend, for exactly the reason that you mention. My mom's friend sincerely thought she was saving my aunt from the fires of hell. I can't blame her for that, however wrong I think it all was.

[GrapeSlushie]

My aunt always held the opinion that the world we currently live in is Hell, and that after the second coming the righteous would ascend up to Heaven while the wicked stayed here. As a kid, I always secretly thought I would rather just stay here than have to go to Heaven, where, according to the church I went to, there was no TV, no books, and nothing else fun to do. :( Just nothing but Jesus praising all day, every day.

[celestial]

When my aunt was dying, my mom's crazy evangelical friend went to her bedside and tried desperately to get her to accept Jesus. This (my aunt) was a woman with 2-3 days to live, dying from a particularly nasty, aggressive and rare brain disease. She could barely talk, and she had a menorah by her bedside to indicate that she was Jewish for the hospital chaplains, and yet this friend was in there proselytizing.

It was ridiculously inappropriate. And yet, I don't hold it against my mom's friend, for exactly the reason that you mention. My mom's friend sincerely thought she was saving my aunt from the fires of hell. I can't blame her for that, however wrong I think it all was.

I can see it from both sides. I certainly don't want anyone trying to evangelize me or anyone else, for that matter, especially at someone's deathbed! But I can see where their actions are coming from, if they sincerely do believe in hell. Sorry that happened to your aunt and your family-- I hope the evangelical friend was ushered quickly from the room.

[browngrl]

The only time it happened to me my reply was that I'd rather be in hell sharing a beer with people like Bon Scott, Cliff Burton and Janis Joplin (a fundie told me that I'd go to hell with "all the rockers like the ones on your shirt"-I was wearing a METALLICA t-shirt) than to be bored to death in their version of heaven playing harp on a cloud forever and ever... :twisted:

Some fundie wrote a book describing what heaven is supposed to look like (I wonder how he found that out), and he had a Q&A on a blog. He wrote that in heaven one can have a cigar and a scotch with Winston Churchill while debating politcs (!), so when a reader asked him if in heaven one could smoke a joint with Bob Marley, he replied that is was not possible because pot is illegal. :lol: That made me LMFHO!! I wish I'd remember what the book was...Never read it save for the chapter on aforementionned blog.

I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell - but even if there is a heaven - based on what I have read about it in fundie blogs - I don't want to go there. Spending eternity with a bunch of fundies and worshiping a god who has such low self esteem that he needs constant praise makes me sick AND according to some fundie stuff I have read - there are no animals in heaven which is a deal breaker in and of itself for me.

[Esther]

I think hell sounds like a load of bullcrap. So there's a fire-filled place where a red creature with horns reigns supreme and then there's some eternal torment and possibly a giant barbecue? Alright then. Go on and believe that but please leave me alone with it. I don't believe in Never Never Land either. The fundie version of the afterlife is an interesting concept...

And I don't give people a pass because they "genuinely believe" they're saving someone, either. In our society, it's kinda hard to miss the whole heaven and hell rhetoric, so if people haven't quite embraced Jesus yet, that's probably because they don't really intend to.

[mbeezer]

I don't believe in heaven or hell, at least in the way fundies do. In the words of Billy Joel, "I'd rather laught with the sinners than cry with the saints. The sinners are much more fun."

[cindyluvs24]

As I've told my fundy neighbor : Heaven or hell, I've got friends everywhere.

[contrary]

i kind of agree with the theory that this life on earth is really "hell", and those that are raptured will go to heaven while the rest stay here on earth.

Frankly? I think a lot of the folks we follow are gonna be wicked shocked when the day of judgement comes. Cause I'm pretty sure they're doing it wrong.

[emmyfair]

When I was a little girl, some church lady pulled me aside in all her floral and perfumed glory, and told me I was going to hell because my parents were divorced and there was nothing I could do about it. I didn't tell anyone about what she said until just a few years ago, but the fear I developed from her statement haunted my childhood. She is a big reason why I would never take my children to church - I don't want them suffering at the hands of wolves in sheep's clothing like I did.

It's one thing, I think, to say something like that to an adult - something totally different to say it to a child.

[Guest Anonymous]

I don't believe in the Christian version of heaven and hell - but even if there is a heaven - based on what I have read about it in fundie blogs - I don't want to go there. Spending eternity with a bunch of fundies and worshiping a god who has such low self esteem that he needs constant praise makes me sick AND according to some fundie stuff I have read - there are no animals in heaven which is a deal breaker in and of itself for me.

I agree. Neither my husband nor I want any part of a hereafter that wouldn't permit the 7 cats we've lived with in our time to join us.

[27randomscribbles]

In their mind, hell does exist and it is more terrible than anyone can imagine. Sometimes the warning is because the person truely believes that they are helping the person avoid going to an terrible existence. They want to warn the person in order to save them.

Other people are just being hateful and assume that no one can not be terrified of the same things that they are. And I'm sure that for some it is a self congratulatory way of asserting their superiorty by saying that the someone deserves eternal torture.

And this is why I still pretend to be a good Christian when I'm with my family. Many people don't understand living such a lie and they figure my family would eventually accept that I no longer believe and that they would still love me. I, however, understand that because this idea of heaven and hell is so real to them, they could never "accept" my disbelief. I don't want to be the sinner on their church prayer list for the rest of my life and so I simply pretend.

Believe me, it's not as easy as it sounds. I feel like my family doesn't even know me--they only know the goody-goody little Christian girl that I pretend to be when I'm around them. But because they blindly believe that if I am not a Christian I will burn in hell for eternity, I can't let them know the truth.

So yeah, I get that they "mean well". They truly think that non-Christians are going to die and burn forever in misery. In fact, I remember thinking similarly when I was a child and teenager--I just couldn't understand why anyone would want to go to hell when it was "oh so easy" to accept Jesus into one's heart. Obviously I've changed a lot since then, but I still understand where they are coming from. Doesn't make it hurt any less to be the secret "non-believer" in the family.

[dairyfreelife]

I believe there is an afterlife, but it annoys me to hear the "you're going to hell thing too". The couple times it was said to me, I've politely responded that I will see them there. It makes the assumptions of who is and isn't deserving of something that's meant to be good and who will spend forever burning in a fire pit being tortured. It's judgmental and self-righteous imo to tell another they are terrible and God wants to spend them to Satan if they don't bow down and start worshipping him how they think I should.

[27randomscribbles]

I agree. Neither my husband nor I want any part of a hereafter that wouldn't permit the 7 cats we've lived with in our time to join us.

Good thing I'm not Christian. No cats or pot? And I imagine no heathen books either. Hell sounds better.

Curious though, as a young child I was told that I would see my pets in heaven someday while we were going through putting one of my beloved cats to sleep. I would describe my family as fundie-lite/evangelical with a "contemporary" feel. How about you guys?

[MandyLaLa]

Actually, what I don't understand is, if a person really and truly believes that other people are going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity, how is it possible for them to just cheerfully go about their daily business, perhaps occasionally trying to evangelize someone? Shouldn't they be frantically trying to save people from this impending doom? If I knew a building was going to blow up or something and I saw people going into the building, I would be doing everything in my power to stop them from going in. The smug attitude many Christians seem to have about others going to hell is what I don't understand. How could people be full of such hate for others?

I never even thought of it that way, not to mention most of them don't proselytize just for the purpose of saving a soul, they do it so they can pat themselves on the back and feel superior.

[Minerva]

Good thing I'm not Christian. No cats or pot? And I imagine no heathen books either. Hell sounds better.

Curious though, as a young child I was told that I would see my pets in heaven someday while we were going through putting one of my beloved cats to sleep. I would describe my family as fundie-lite/evangelical with a "contemporary" feel. How about you guys?

My parents are agnostic and atheist and they told me my pets and grandma were in heaven. Parents will do anything to make these things easier for their kids, methinks.

[allyisyourpally5]

What I don't understand is how there can be a Heaven if someone you know is in Hell. I'm in Hell whenever someone I know is in trouble or suffering.

[NeonMoon]

Actually, what I don't understand is, if a person really and truly believes that other people are going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity, how is it possible for them to just cheerfully go about their daily business, perhaps occasionally trying to evangelize someone? Shouldn't they be frantically trying to save people from this impending doom? If I knew a building was going to blow up or something and I saw people going into the building, I would be doing everything in my power to stop them from going in. The smug attitude many Christians seem to have about others going to hell is what I don't understand. How could people be full of such hate for others?

Some Christians believe in "pre-ordination". God has decided in advance who will be saved and who won't, and if you aren't one of the "select", you're going to hell and there is nothing you can do about it. Of course, this stands in direct opposition to the idea of saving yourself by accepting Jesus that is held by so many other Christians.

Does anyone know if VisionForum, Duggars, etc. believe in pre-ordination?

[MandyLaLa]

Some Christians believe in "pre-ordination". God has decided in advance who will be saved and who won't, and if you aren't one of the "select", you're going to hell and there is nothing you can do about it. Of course, this stands in direct opposition to the idea of saving yourself by accepting Jesus that is held by so many other Christians.

Does anyone know if VisionForum, Duggars, etc. believe in pre-ordination?

This concept makes my brain hurt, because all I can think of is heinous murderers and criminals, who by simple luck of the draw or whatever are going to heaven no matter what they did. That isn't an afterlife I'd want to hang out in.

[celestial]

Some Christians believe in "pre-ordination". God has decided in advance who will be saved and who won't, and if you aren't one of the "select", you're going to hell and there is nothing you can do about it. Of course, this stands in direct opposition to the idea of saving yourself by accepting Jesus that is held by so many other Christians.

Does anyone know if VisionForum, Duggars, etc. believe in pre-ordination?

That makes it even worse, to me. Even if one adopts these Calvinist views, and accepts that they can't do anything to save the non-Elect from hell, it still doesn't explain how such believers can just go merrily about their days, knowing that a huge number of people they interact with are destined for eternal suffering. At least Christians who don't believe in preordination can make themselves feel better with the idea that they could possibly save someone.

By my understanding, Vision Forum is Calvinist, the Duggars are not.

[OohLaLa]

That makes it even worse, to me. Even if one adopts these Calvinist views, and accepts that they can't do anything to save the non-Elect from hell, it still doesn't explain how such believers can just go merrily about their days, knowing that a huge number of people they interact with are destined for eternal suffering. At least Christians who don't believe in preordination can make themselves feel better with the idea that they could possibly save someone.

By my understanding, Vision Forum is Calvinist, the Duggars are not.

I think my parents' fundie church calls it predestination, but I understand it to be pretty much the same thing. I questioned them on this and they said that they still preach the word because that's what God called them to do, and they don't know what his plan is or who he might lead to be saved through them. I asked if they are predestined to be saved, why would it matter if you were evangelizing or not because it's in God's plan for them to be saved anyway?? They couldn't answer this at the time or any of the other things I made clear I thought were bullshit, but later sent me a book by John Macarthur and said it would answer all my questions. I started it out of curiosity, but threw it away after about 5 pages. It was awful.

[QAF_Rocks]

My parents are agnostic and atheist and they told me my pets and grandma were in heaven. Parents will do anything to make these things easier for their kids, methinks.

I'm glad my parents didn't do that! I think it just makes it harder later on when the child has to adjust to the idea of there not being an afterlife. Better never to introduce it as a possibility to begin with, then you can avoid all that angst.