Saudi Guardianship/Christain Headship

[debrand]

More proof that fundamentalism has similar beliefs.

In Saudi all women have guardians. Thi sis even true of middle aged women with children.

Samar Badawi, a 30-year-old mother of one, has served seven months in jail. Her crime? Disobeying her father.

Badawi, 30, fell foul of Saudi Arabia's guardianship laws, which require women to gain permission from their father, husband or even adult son for many daily activities.

However, just like in America there are women who not only don't want rights but don't want other women to have rights either.

But not everyone agrees. Rawda Al Youssef runs a campaign called "My Guardian Knows What's Best For Me" in favor of the controversial system.

She argues that Saudi women are lucky to be looked after and that guardianship reinforces the family as a foundation of society.

"The relationship between men and women inside the family is a complementary relationship and not an equal relationship," said Al Youssef. "The man serves the woman and supervises her affairs inside the home and outside the home."

Her statement could have been written by a Christian fundamentalist here in the states

Cleric Sheikh Adnan Bahareth, who insisted on being interviewed over the phone because he did not want to appear on camera with a woman, argued that Saudi women were lucky not to have to drive.

"Men are slaves for women today," he said.

Sheikh Bahareth said if women could drive: "It will add more tasks on a woman's shoulder. She will have to go to the souk on her own, she will have to get the food, she will have to drive the kids to and from school.

"We want to lessen these burdens on the women."

Does this man actually believe what he said?

[celestial]

I teach many Saudi students, and cannot tell you how many times I have heard these same opinions shared by them, almost unilaterally. Women express the same idea: that they are SOOOOO lucky not to have to do anything for themselves, to have someone watching out for them, etc. I realize that each culture has its own way of doing things, etc., but the whole "having to answer to your father/husband for life" thing is over the line for me. It terrifies me that American fundies want exactly this sort of system to be instituted over here, too.

[chiccy]

Wow. Stockholm Syndrome?

[Koala]

That's hard to read. There are so many parallels. The sick thing is that the Christian/headship women are doing it willingly. They are practically begging to have their rights taken away. It's disgraceful.

[UmmSqueakster]

I'm actually heading to KSA for a religious pilgrimage/history site seeing tour this Thursday (first substantial vacation from work in 5 years, yaay!). I'm going by myself, which as a woman under 45 would normally be impossible. Women under 45 who want to make hajj (major pilgrimage, one time per year) or umrah (minor pilgrimage, can be made most times throughout the year) have to be accompanied by a mahram, a male relative. This can be a father, husband or son.

But, as a convert, even a married convert who has a mahram (aka my husband), I apparently fit through a loophole. All I needed was a certified letter from my mahram allowing me to travel :roll: Same requirement needed for women over 45. I got my passport back from the travel agency, and the letter is stapled in back, just in case anyone would top and ask :lol:

The requirement to travel with a mahram was logical at the time - it was suicidal for a woman to think of traveling on her own throughout most of history - although I will note that in the shafi'i madhab (one of the sunni schools of thought), a group of 3 or more women don't need a mahram for travel.

From a fiqh perspective, this rule is rather outdated. The sources from which this ruling is derived discuss the need for a mahram when traveling either for a distance that can be covered in 3 days or a day and a night. Classical scholars say this is 48 km. But in today's modern world with all the travel options we have, there isn't really anywhere on earth that is out of bounds. At this point, scholars should revisit the ruling and use their intellect (which is a valid source of islamic law - both the texts and intellectual reasoning make up rulings) to make it fit with the circumstances we find ourselves in today.

[fakepigtails73]

OMG, what if a woman can drive herself to the souk and go shopping all by herself!!

Let's imitate the prison for women, our "ally", the "moderate" state of Saudi Arabia!

I remember when W was POTUS the only time at the UN that you got Iran, Saudi Arabia, the Vatican and the US to agree and vote the same way were when projects re: women's rights and reproductive heath were voted on. You could count on them to agree to vote NO on projects that were giving African women access to cheaper contraceptives. And this is one of the reasons why I hate the fact that the Vatican is, for all intents and purposes, a sovereing state;so the Pope and the Curia can stick their noses in women's lives even more than they usually do.

Shameful.

I hate to say it because it seems like every 4 years it is said, but this upcoming Nov. election is the most important in our lifetime. Please Americans, too much is at stake.

[Arete]

A friend of mine who is a Turkish citizen gave me a great laugh one time. We had had a few drinks together, talking about this and that, when she pulled out her passport. Though they do not need a male guardian's permission to travel as in Iran and SA, Turkish women are classified in their passports as either "married" or "virgin". My friend was over 50 years old at the time, unmarried, but that ship had sailed out of port decades ago. :shhh:

[UmmSqueakster]

A friend of mine who is a Turkish citizen gave me a great laugh one time. We had had a few drinks together, talking about this and that, when she pulled out her passport. Though they do not need a male guardian's permission to travel as in Iran and SA, Turkish women are classified in their passports as either "married" or "virgin". My friend was over 50 years old at the time, unmarried, but that ship had sailed out of port decades ago. :shhh:

Sound similar to the objects french women had to mademoiselle, which is now off official French documents as of last month:

And aside from that, says Bas, "mademoiselle" isn't even a compliment, explaining the origins of the word: "Madame, for madame, oiselle in French is the feminine of oiseau. And in ancient French, that means virgin, that means stupid, that means somebody who needs to be married."

http://www.npr.org/2011/09/29/140931817 ... demoiselle

[Sunnichick31]

I'm actually heading to KSA for a religious pilgrimage/history site seeing tour this Thursday (first substantial vacation from work in 5 years, yaay!). I'm going by myself, which as a woman under 45 would normally be impossible. Women under 45 who want to make hajj (major pilgrimage, one time per year) or umrah (minor pilgrimage, can be made most times throughout the year) have to be accompanied by a mahram, a male relative. This can be a father, husband or son.

.

Jealous!! Keep me in your duas when you are there please. I hope inshallah I get to go someday.

[Sunnichick31]

IIRC, this video is interesting. It gives both sides of the argument. I think the woman who runs my guardian knows best is in this video, and I don't like her much. I much prefer Reem (the one who is fighting for women's rights. ) I know a campaign to get men out of lingerie shops seems small, but it'll open the door for more oppotunities.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNy_uLF9 ... plpp_video

I know that change will be slow, but i really hope things in KSA improve for women. It kills me that the poorer women in that video can't do anything to support themselves simiply because they don't have a guardian. the saddest thing is, if any of the Republican candidates get it (cough-santorum-cough), I'm afraid that the USA will start to go down this path.