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A Happy Easter thing I saw at K-Mart


Hane

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Looking back, I'd say I was right to be angry about assigned gender roles, but I was also contributing to a long history of degrading women by automatically considering anything "girly" to be of less value.

But this makes me think about what's naturally "girly" and what's marketed as "girly." A few weeks ago I posted here on FJ how I noticed in all my grade school class pictures there was no pink. Our small town, Midwestern, Mainline Protestant, mothers weren't actively keeping pink from us; pink just wasn't around. We weren't being marketed to with pink and purple and glitter and crap. Were our blue dresses girly? Were our drab, green plaid dresses girly? What is "girly" if contemporary marketing is taken out of the equation? Are we letting corporations define what's "girly"?

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But this makes me think about what's naturally "girly" and what's marketed as "girly." A few weeks ago I posted here on FJ how I noticed in all my grade school class pictures there was no pink. Our small town, Midwestern, Mainline Protestant, mothers weren't actively keeping pink from us; pink just wasn't around. We weren't being marketed to with pink and purple and glitter and crap. Were our blue dresses girly? Were our drab, green plaid dresses girly? What is "girly" if contemporary marketing is taken out of the equation? Are we letting corporations define what's "girly"?

Basically this. My favourite outfit as a child was a peach and denim blue shorts and t-shirt set with Minnie Mouse on it. Pink was on some of my clothes in prints and stuff, and I had Barbies, but my wardrobe didn't look like a Care Bear had puked glitter on it (this was in the mid 90s).

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I was raised by hippies who put a lot of emphasis on gender equality, so I was encouraged to pursue what I wanted as a child. That meant that I loved Barbies, dresses, Cabbage Patch Dolls, etc. but played equally as often with my Lincoln Logs, Legos, children's microscope, etc. Now as an adult I live for anything pink and glittery and am pretty much the girliest person I know, but I also tend to have mostly male friends and enjoy a lot of things that are traditionally thought of as male. I'm not a mother yet, but I expect that I'll have a similar mindset as my parents when it comes to raising children- make sure they know that "male" and "female" pursuits are equally acceptable and that they can be interested in anything regardless of gender. I am the most femme lesbian I have ever met, so my kids will be seeing that you can be girly and still live a life that doesn't fit the gender binary.

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Can't toys just be toys. I've never really analyzed boys toys vs girls toys. We don't have a ton of regular toys, I do try to encourage creativity though. Lots of clay, markers, crayons, microscopes, nerf guns, paper, stickers, cooking stuff, a dog, hamsters, etc.........

When DD wanted a dollhouse, Santa brought one. When DS wanted race cars, again Santa brought them.

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I have two girls who are in elementary school. We expose them to things that are not stereotypical and encourage them to be and do whatever they want. So whether they prefer barbies or cars at this stage (they actually like both), it is their choice. They both went through the Disney princess stage in preschool, though they grew out of it by kindergarten, as did the rest of the kids in their class (thank God). My youngest considers herself girlie, but she loves math and math video games, which is not a stereotypical female interest, is one of the top students in her class, and is very outspoken. I think that as long as they are exposed to as much as possible, and taught that they can be and do whatever they choose, they will be ok.

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But this makes me think about what's naturally "girly" and what's marketed as "girly." A few weeks ago I posted here on FJ how I noticed in all my grade school class pictures there was no pink. Our small town, Midwestern, Mainline Protestant, mothers weren't actively keeping pink from us; pink just wasn't around. We weren't being marketed to with pink and purple and glitter and crap. Were our blue dresses girly? Were our drab, green plaid dresses girly? What is "girly" if contemporary marketing is taken out of the equation? Are we letting corporations define what's "girly"?

Bolding mine.

In the article linked upthread, it's made clear where the pink-glitter epidemic came from. Although I am a Certified '70s Feminist , I've always been one of the Earth-mother sort, and have always stood up for the "traditionally feminine" things that add value to our daily lives: having a comfortable home, cooking/sewing, caring for children and loved ones, keeping community alive. I was a denim-and-sneakers type of mom, but my daughter turned out to be far girlier in self-expression than I ever was--but also far more adventurous and independent. (Full disclosure: I also loved me some Polly Flinders smocked dresses and traditional little-girl clothes, but my daughter loved them, too.)

Like so many of us here, I think it's important to give a child guidance and support as s/he starts to unfold as an individual and find out who s/he is. Cramming pink glitter down a girl's throat is no less unhealthy than insisting she wear nothing but Birkenstocks and army surplus.

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But this makes me think about what's naturally "girly" and what's marketed as "girly." A few weeks ago I posted here on FJ how I noticed in all my grade school class pictures there was no pink. Our small town, Midwestern, Mainline Protestant, mothers weren't actively keeping pink from us; pink just wasn't around. We weren't being marketed to with pink and purple and glitter and crap. Were our blue dresses girly? Were our drab, green plaid dresses girly? What is "girly" if contemporary marketing is taken out of the equation? Are we letting corporations define what's "girly"?

The "everything for girls MUST be pink or possibly pastel purple" thing is a very MODERN trend. It was not like that in the US even 30 years ago.

Back in the 70's, when actual opportunities for women in careers were less than now, there were certainly gendered toys. Dolls were for girls, swords were for boys, etc. But as I recall, the actual truly "neutral" toys - sports equipment, bicycles[1], building blocks, hula hoops, skateboards, rollerskates, slip'n'slides, etc - came in all colors and were marketed for all (even if they would more often show only boys on the box). Just look at the old Lego ad from the 70's with the red haired girl. None of the bricks are pink (they didn't make pink ones then, or even green ones) and the girl isn't wearing anything pink either.

But now, if you want a ball? There are various multicolored balls out there, and then... pink ones, obviously aimed at the girls. Ditto bikes - the ones for girls are pastel, most commonly pink. EVERYTHING under the sun now has a "regular" version and a special "pink" version, often with princess imagery or glitter. (I think part of this is because so much stuff now is marketed with cartoon characters on it, and the makers of that stuff have gendered the stuff from the get-go, but maybe that's another thread.)

And it seems to me that the existence of the pink version is telling girls (and more importantly, people who buy presents for girls) that surely they MUST buy the pink one, or they're non-conforming. If there weren't the separate line, no one would care that a girl buys the red or yellow one, but because there's the pink out there? She's rejecting the pink, and why is that?

Heck, look at the supposedly positive "girls can be geeks too!" stuff out there. Sure, girls can, but they better be sexy and "hot" while doing it. Girls' t-shirts are all form-fitting and half the time have some sexy message or innuendo on them. Appearance ALWAYS has to matter.

[1] Bikes did come in "boy" and "girl" versions, with the drop-bar step through bikes being called "girls' bikes" since you can wear a skirt on them, but the important thing is the "girls" drop bar bikes came in ALL COLORS. Not just pink!!

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I am so proud that nowhere in my country would stock such a monstrosity....

I was that awkward little girl who didn't like pink much (though it wasn't as bad in the 90s) so I had a lot of "boy's" toys as red was my favourite colour.

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I'm for children playing with dolls, both boys and girls. But I wish there were a better popular option that didn't have such an unrealistic body shape. Now, I don't believe "real women have curves" or that skinny dolls are inherently bad. All women are real women, and that includes those that are naturally thin and those that are naturally fat. However, Barbie's proportions are literally impossible to exist on an actual living woman, and that's what I don't like. I don't have kids but I will probably have one or two eventually. I wish there were an easy to find alternative.

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EVERYTHING under the sun now has a "regular" version and a special "pink" version, often with princess imagery or glitter.

Up to and including kid-sized fan sports uniforms and those Statue of Liberty hats we sell in NY for the tourists.

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Being what people would see as ultra girly doesn't make a woman less equal. To be equal we don't have to be the same as men. Having the right to be who you are and like what you like and dress how you want isn't that what we're striving for.

We can all be awesome in our differences.

They wouldn't make these products if they didn't sell. Just like all the super hero type stuff they out - it sells. My son rarely sees commercials so I don't know how influenced he is by media. I assumed he'd be more into stuff the kids like at school but really he isn't.

One day my son will learn BumbleBee isn't real and one day after the Princess Phase these girls will realize Prince Charming isn't real. If there are girls who really believe that is how love works, what the world is like - lack of parenting not that Princess stuff is automatically bad.

As for Barbie - I doubt she'll ever change until enough people stop buying.

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Up to and including kid-sized fan sports uniforms and those Statue of Liberty hats we sell in NY for the tourists.

Statue of Liberty hats should be GREEN, shouldn't they?

I dressed up as the Statue of Liberty one year for Halloween. I had a toga (nicely sewn by my mother to have properly hanging pleats all the time!) from a school play a few years previous, dyed it green, and made my crown out of green packing foam that had come with some computer we bought. The foam was wavy, though, so the crown points were wavy, it was kinda funky looking. Held up a flashlight with some orange cellophane flames taped all around the light end, and it was good.

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That is something I'm still working on.

Me too, to be honest. Which is hypocritical of me because while I don't embody the femininity that is stereotypical of women my age (which involves removing all of one's body hair, and not leaving the house without applying heat to one's hair and makeup to one's eyes), I still buy clothes from the women's section, tweeze my eyebrows, and keep my hair long. I've still bought into the binary.

But this makes me think about what's naturally "girly" and what's marketed as "girly." A few weeks ago I posted here on FJ how I noticed in all my grade school class pictures there was no pink. Our small town, Midwestern, Mainline Protestant, mothers weren't actively keeping pink from us; pink just wasn't around. We weren't being marketed to with pink and purple and glitter and crap. Were our blue dresses girly? Were our drab, green plaid dresses girly? What is "girly" if contemporary marketing is taken out of the equation? Are we letting corporations define what's "girly"?

I don't think anything is "naturally" girly. Remove contemporary marketing from the equation, and "girly" will still include dresses and toys related to the domestic sphere. It'll still just be an arbitrary social construct. You're right about corporations taking over the role of dictating gender expectations, but I don't think I'd be much happier if we had just kept basing them on the writings of misogynistic old philosophers and whomever decided in medieval times (or sometime thereabouts, my history isn't that good) that only men could wear pants.

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Peggy Orenstein's book "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" is a pretty compelling look at the deliberate pink-i-fication of girls at the hands of marketers and its implications. Good summary in the NYT book review:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/books ... d=fb-share

That book sounds as bad as the stereotype that quiverfullers convey about how girls should be. It's just the opposite extreme. If little girls want to be princesses and think pink, then they should go for it. If little girls want to watch a monster truck rally and spend their days smashing Tonka trucks on the floor, then they should go for it. I think the purse book is adorable by the way. Doesn't bother me in the least. If a girl wants it, she should have it. If she doesn't want it, then she shouldn't be forced to have it. Real feminism never forces one side.

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This girl hates the marketing towards girls.

It doesn't bother me at all. A girl should be taught from a young age that she should never conform to what society tells her to be. She should act how she wants to act, do what she wants to do, and be what she wants to be. When those messages are instilled in her, then as she grows, she won't even pay attention to marketing that doesn't interest her.

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Statue of Liberty hats should be GREEN, shouldn't they?

One would think.

It doesn't bother me at all. A girl should be taught from a young age that she should never conform to what society tells her to be. She should act how she wants to act, do what she wants to do, and be what she wants to be. When those messages are instilled in her, then as she grows, she won't even pay attention to marketing that doesn't interest her.

NEVER conform to what society wants her to be? Society wants her not to be a thief, she should conform to that expectation. Society wants her to not pee in public, she should really conform to that expectation. Society has some messed up expectations sometimes, but not always.

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That book sounds as bad as the stereotype that quiverfullers convey about how girls should be. It's just the opposite extreme. If little girls want to be princesses and think pink, then they should go for it. If little girls want to watch a monster truck rally and spend their days smashing Tonka trucks on the floor, then they should go for it. I think the purse book is adorable by the way. Doesn't bother me in the least. If a girl wants it, she should have it. If she doesn't want it, then she shouldn't be forced to have it. Real feminism never forces one side.

Exactly, and the same should apply to little boys.

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My daughter managed to get it all to work for her, faerie wings, tiara, pirate sword and eye patch all at the same time. She's 26 and still dresses like that :roll:

my friends have a daughter who'd love to play soccer in a princess outfit :P she dresses up to play with cars, it's hilarious!

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One would think.

NEVER conform to what society wants her to be? Society wants her not to be a thief, she should conform to that expectation. Society wants her to not pee in public, she should really conform to that expectation. Society has some messed up expectations sometimes, but not always.

I can kind of see what you mean. However.

Public urination for women should be like public urination for men. Be discreet, as much as you can. Nicking stuff, well it's the law telling you not to do it ever. The boundaries change.

And peeing isn't always avoidable....

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Are we letting corporations define what's "girly"?

I love Coach purses, beautiful shoes, Italian leather, designer clothes, and I'm a label ho. I love wearing ripped jeans and t-shirts while gardening. Home Depot is one of my favorite stores to go to. I love construction, home improvement, building things, jogging on the beach, and playing sports. I love opera and I love hard rock. Kick boxing is my new favorite thing. Love to cook, love to bake, hate to clean. If both sexes are taught to do what they like, then there is no worry that corporations will define them. It's up to parents to teach this. I was not one to censor what my kids were exposed to, other than violent or scary things when they were little. I viewed everything as a teaching moment. If a commercial came on that I thought needed my opinion, I'd state it. I would also say things like "You know you don't have to have that if you don't like it, right?" They'd say they knew. The older kids turned out well and the younger ones are on their way. The world is full of good and bad, negative and positive. It's nothing to panic over or ban kids from. Arm them with the ammunition necessary to function in the world and be productive members of society, and they will find their way.

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[

NEVER conform to what society wants her to be? Society wants her not to be a thief, she should conform to that expectation. Society wants her to not pee in public, she should really conform to that expectation. Society has some messed up expectations sometimes, but not always.

Oh goodness gracious, that should go without saying. What odd things to bring up. LOL

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I can kind of see what you mean. However.

Public urination for women should be like public urination for men. Be discreet, as much as you can. Nicking stuff, well it's the law telling you not to do it ever. The boundaries change.

And peeing isn't always avoidable....

I love my little JFC rebel.

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my friends have a daughter who'd love to play soccer in a princess outfit :P she dresses up to play with cars, it's hilarious!

My daughter could go from glitz, glitter, makeup and designer clothes, to kicking ass on the basketball court. I love that kid.

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I was at K-Mart today, and a woman called out to her mother, "Look at this! Isn't it the CUTEST thing?" so, as soon as she left, I ran and took a picture of it. Christianity, sexist stereotypes, and consumerism tied up in one gaudy bow

Egads, gender and religious indoctrination! Gotta get those little girls hopped up on Jesus and girly-pink-glitter-bling as soon as possible.

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