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A Happy Easter thing I saw at K-Mart


Hane

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I was at K-Mart today, and a woman called out to her mother, "Look at this! Isn't it the CUTEST thing?" so, as soon as she left, I ran and took a picture of it. Christianity, sexist stereotypes, and consumerism tied up in one gaudy bow:

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(Forgot to notice whether the woman was wearing a long denim skirt.)

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In fairness I should point out that these books are a series. They've got the same cardboard purse, shiny letters, and atrocious pink style books for several subjects.

Much to my displeasure, the ones on colors and counting are huge hits with the girls in my classroom. The rest are completely nonreligious and are actually good. They include lots of different textures, references relatable to kids, and help teach generalization of skills.

Despite that, they are way to pink, way to 'girlie,' and way too cutesy-cool for my tastes.

I've not read the Bible one though.

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Some girls are really into that kind of thing. I have several friends who's 4-5 yr old DDs would LOVE that. They are into everything pink, princess etc

I want to get my son a comic book Bible - he's a boy and totally into comic books, super heroes, Transformers - it doesn't have to be a bad thing.

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I'm not a mother so perhaps I shouldn't ask this question at all, but I'm curious.

Is it appropriate to steer daughters away from pretty pink princess, prince charming, dainty, girly girl things? Do feminists worry about letting their daughters idolize fairy tales and internalize the princess rescue fantasy inherent in most fairy tales? Or, is it hypocritical to insist daughters be strong tomboys if we abhor the fundies who insist their daughters be submissive helpmeets in training?

My parents were very disdainful of any girly-girl things. I was not allowed to wear makeup, high heels, have my ears pierced, wear nail polish, etc. before I was 18. I also was not allowed to spend countless hours on the phone, hang out at the mall or date, even in a group. My parents were definitely not fundie; we were raised as atheists. They just believed that I was not to engage in what they considered "air-headed" pursuits such as gossiping about boys, being what they called a "mallrat," or eschewing my homework and academic success for social things. They thought I needed to, first a foremost, have a childhood, be concerned with school, etc. until I grew up. Now, I think one can be, as my parents were, too far in that extreme.

But I'm just curious about how mothers see the pretty pink princess stuff - it seems really, really strong in a way I don't remember in my childhood - especially with the Disney Princesses stuff, the Twilight crap, etc.

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I'm not a mother so perhaps I shouldn't ask this question at all, but I'm curious.

Is it appropriate to steer daughters away from pretty pink princess, prince charming, dainty, girly girl things? Do feminists worry about letting their daughters idolize fairy tales and internalize the princess rescue fantasy inherent in most fairy tales? Or, is it hypocritical to insist daughters be strong tomboys if we abhor the fundies who insist their daughters be submissive helpmeets in training?

My parents were very disdainful of any girly-girl things. I was not allowed to wear makeup, high heels, have my ears pierced, wear nail polish, etc. before I was 18. I also was not allowed to spend countless hours on the phone, hang out at the mall or date, even in a group. My parents were definitely not fundie; we were raised as atheists. They just believed that I was not to engage in what they considered "air-headed" pursuits such as gossiping about boys, being what they called a "mallrat," or eschewing my homework and academic success for social things. They thought I needed to, first a foremost, have a childhood, be concerned with school, etc. until I grew up. Now, I think one can be, as my parents were, too far in that extreme.

But I'm just curious about how mothers see the pretty pink princess stuff - it seems really, really strong in a way I don't remember in my childhood - especially with the Disney Princesses stuff, the Twilight crap, etc.

My mother was quite strict about toys that were degrading to women, which included Barbie. I rebelled a bit against it and so I am not as stringent with my daughters.

My 9 yo daughter is a Twi-hard, but she is very aware of the fact that I consider the relationship between Bella and Edward an unhealthy one, and she knows that she will be going to college before she gets married even if the sexiest vampire on the globe shows up begging for her hand.

My 4 yo is into all things pink and princess. She has one of those little purse kits, not a Bible one but it is definitely the same brand. I allow her to cover herself and her room in pink because I believe there are many ways to be a strong woman. Some women are girlier than others and this is okay; being stereotypically female is not doing it wrong. I try to balance the princess stuff with strong female role models and to impress upon her that a woman has better things to do than to wait around for a man. I also make comments on her movies--"Sleeping Beauty is only 16, that is way too young to settle down! She should be in school!" and stuff like that. I don't ban anything but I make my feelings known.

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I'm not a mother so perhaps I shouldn't ask this question at all, but I'm curious.

Is it appropriate to steer daughters away from pretty pink princess, prince charming, dainty, girly girl things? Do feminists worry about letting their daughters idolize fairy tales and internalize the princess rescue fantasy inherent in most fairy tales? Or, is it hypocritical to insist daughters be strong tomboys if we abhor the fundies who insist their daughters be submissive helpmeets in training?

You should read the book Cinderella Ate my Daughter, it's pretty much about all that Princess stuff and if it hurts girls and what parents should do in response to it. I only have a son for now but am expecting a daughter assuming the ultrasound was correct. I'm still not sure how I'll handle the princess stage but I think I'll just go along with it because like many other things it's typically a stage that passes. Although I will encourage other intersts as well.

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You should read the book Cinderella Ate my Daughter, it's pretty much about all that Princess stuff and if it hurts girls and what parents should do in response to it. I only have a son for now but am expecting a daughter assuming the ultrasound was correct. I'm still not sure how I'll handle the princess stage but I think I'll just go along with it because like many other things it's typically a stage that passes. Although I will encourage other intersts as well.

Thanks, I'll check it out. It's something I've thought about on and off - mostly in relation to my own childhood. On one hand I think my parents overdid it with the "no stereotypical teenage girl stuff!!" rhetoric and more peer socialization would've been good for me. However, then I feel like my parents did me a favor by making sure I grew up focused on arts, literature, music, history as opposed to make up, boy bands, make out tips, etc. Yet, again, I may be demonizing both sides.

I'll quit rambling and order up the book on Amazon. Thanks.

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I am trying not to limit my children to 'girls' or 'boys' toys. Meaning my son got a play kitchen and my daughter has gotten toy cars. The world didn't implode. Only annoying part was how LONG it took me to find dishes for his toy kitchen that weren't pink. Same with the toy broom - ended up getting him a mini hand broom and dust pan because he didn't want a purple broom.

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OP, based on your location I have a feeling I've been in said K-Mart (there just aren't many around anymore). Nice to see someone from central CT - where we do indeed have plenty of fundies (more often fundie lites).

Is it appropriate to steer daughters away from pretty pink princess, prince charming, dainty, girly girl things? Do feminists worry about letting their daughters idolize fairy tales and internalize the princess rescue fantasy inherent in most fairy tales? Or, is it hypocritical to insist daughters be strong tomboys if we abhor the fundies who insist their daughters be submissive helpmeets in training?

I struggle with this, as we're raising a daughter. I have a career that was traditionally male dominated and I've never been a particularly "girly" girl. We stayed strictly gender-neutral until she was old enough to start expressing her preferences. Sometimes she asks for something pink and sometimes she wants something else. We also don't let her watch much TV, only occasionally old Sesame Street or Baby Signing Time DVDs. She has no concept of the popular kids' TV shows, which my in-laws find somewhat shocking (seeing their kids obsessed with TV from toddlerhood on is what prompted this very limited TV policy). Keeping media and marketing messages away from her has served us well thus far.

She's 19 months old. She likes pushing a baby doll in a toy stroller, but she also likes reading books about farm animals and playing with Duplo and blocks. We're cool with all of that. We just don't want her to ever feel that she has to like certain things or be a certain way in order to be a "real" girl.

Disney Princess marketing is particularly insidious and we will not allow ANY Disney Princess stuff in our house. After reading "Cinderella Ate My Daughter" we're very firm on that point. Women currently over around 20 did not have anything like the marketing juggernaut of pinkified, princessy stuff to contend with - toys were toys and it didn't matter that Lincoln Logs and Legos didn't come in a pink-and-purple girly version. All of today's "girl" versions of toys are merely marketing on the part of the toy manufacturers because they know that it sells more toys (because families with girls and boys will "need" to buy both). And Disney Princess is a calculated strategy on the part of Disney that did not exist prior to 2000 or 2001.

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My daughter is six and likes to wear dresses and lipstick, but she can also play basketball in heels and plays with cars and in the dirt. My son plays with cars and trucks, but also plays with My Little Ponies and doll houses. I just let them be kids and use their imaginations with what ever toys are available. Also, if you're looking for gender neutral kitchen and household things, I suggest www.cptoy.com/

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My son is 17 and his favorite color is pink, and I've bought both my nephews easy bake ovens. At the same time I buy my 2 year old great nieces pretty frilly dresses and fun girly things. I think it's more about attitude and education - it's ok for girls to have pinky frilly things and it's ok for boys to like trucks, as long as we talk to them, educate them and always give them choices.

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I am trying not to limit my children to 'girls' or 'boys' toys. Meaning my son got a play kitchen and my daughter has gotten toy cars. The world didn't implode. Only annoying part was how LONG it took me to find dishes for his toy kitchen that weren't pink. Same with the toy broom - ended up getting him a mini hand broom and dust pan because he didn't want a purple broom.

I also hate that when they have pink and another color they aren't always the same. We got my son the teal version of this toy kitchen (http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.js ... tId=387280) for Christmas. The teal one doesn't have the baby seat, which is a shame because he loves pretending to feed his baby doll and we're short on space so there isn't room for a toy high chair.

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I'm not a mother so perhaps I shouldn't ask this question at all, but I'm curious.

Is it appropriate to steer daughters away from pretty pink princess, prince charming, dainty, girly girl things? Do feminists worry about letting their daughters idolize fairy tales and internalize the princess rescue fantasy inherent in most fairy tales? Or, is it hypocritical to insist daughters be strong tomboys if we abhor the fundies who insist their daughters be submissive helpmeets in training?

My parents were very disdainful of any girly-girl things. I was not allowed to wear makeup, high heels, have my ears pierced, wear nail polish, etc. before I was 18. I also was not allowed to spend countless hours on the phone, hang out at the mall or date, even in a group. My parents were definitely not fundie; we were raised as atheists. They just believed that I was not to engage in what they considered "air-headed" pursuits such as gossiping about boys, being what they called a "mallrat," or eschewing my homework and academic success for social things. They thought I needed to, first a foremost, have a childhood, be concerned with school, etc. until I grew up. Now, I think one can be, as my parents were, too far in that extreme.

But I'm just curious about how mothers see the pretty pink princess stuff - it seems really, really strong in a way I don't remember in my childhood - especially with the Disney Princesses stuff, the Twilight crap, etc.

I'll just start by saying I'm not a mother either.

Back when I was my preteen proto-feminist self, I avoided all things stereotypically feminine because I too considered them air-headed, and I thought gender equality would consist of everyone being tomboyish because then no gender would be relegated to that dumb girly stuff. Looking back, I'd say I was right to be angry about assigned gender roles, but I was also contributing to a long history of degrading women by automatically considering anything "girly" to be of less value. Another problem with that ideal is that I reflexively considered the default human being to be your typical male. If I ever have kids, I think I'd just do my best to make them think critically about gender as our society views it, and try to create an environment where they can express themselves as they wish with as little social pressure as possible.

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I am trying not to limit my children to 'girls' or 'boys' toys. Meaning my son got a play kitchen and my daughter has gotten toy cars. The world didn't implode. Only annoying part was how LONG it took me to find dishes for his toy kitchen that weren't pink. Same with the toy broom - ended up getting him a mini hand broom and dust pan because he didn't want a purple broom.

Off topic. I bought my kids cheap pots from a second hand store that they could use. Yeah, they were real but they were light weight aluminium type material. Cheaply made but the kids liked them.

back on topic. My girls went through a short, girly stage that they outgrew. I tried to strike a balance between allowig them to choose who they wanted to be and not letting them go overboard. They outgrew that stage.

Even if the parents don't want their daughters to be overly frilly, it is surprising the number of people who will buy your girls pink glittery items. My oldest daughter used to get annoyed when people ignored her requests for trucks and gave her dolls for birthday gifts.

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I think a good rule of thumb is to think about how you would feel about your son playing with something. If you're ok with giving it to a daughter but not a son, you have to really think deeply and figure out why that is. If it's because you've been unconsciously buying into stereotypes about what boys can be, then you've just found a new toy for both your son and daughter. But if it's because it sends a wrong message or is degrading, then your daughter shouldn't have it either. I'm not saying that you would have to buy it for both kids because all kids are individuals and your son might just not be interested in some things, but if a hypothetical boy were interested and you wouldn't want him to have it, you have to think long and hard why you would want a girl to have it.

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My daughter managed to get it all to work for her, faerie wings, tiara, pirate sword and eye patch all at the same time. She's 26 and still dresses like that :roll:

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Looking back, I'd say I was right to be angry about assigned gender roles, but I was also contributing to a long history of degrading women by automatically considering anything "girly" to be of less value.

That is something I'm still working on.

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I wasn't allowed barbies growing up, and I have never bought any for my girls, though people do seem to insist on giving them for birthdays. I've lightened up on Barbie, especially after my hardcore feminist friend sent a package of barbie dvds for my daughter's fourth bday. She knew my daughter was getting into princesses. I was shocked. Anyway, we watched the vids. Barbie saves herself and the community by acting for herself, clearheaded thinking, courage, physical prowess and detmination. These were not Barbie stories of my day. I'd rather my daughters emulate those barbie princess anyday over the simpering disney tripe. In one, she actually kept trying to get rid of a guy who kept thinking she needed to be rescued. I absolutely won't let the Bratz dolls pass my doorstep.

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I wasn't allowed barbies growing up, and I have never bought any for my girls, though people do seem to insist on giving them for birthdays. I've lightened up on Barbie, especially after my hardcore feminist friend sent a package of barbie dvds for my daughter's fourth bday. She knew my daughter was getting into princesses. I was shocked. Anyway, we watched the vids. Barbie saves herself and the community by acting for herself, clearheaded thinking, courage, physical prowess and detmination. These were not Barbie stories of my day. I'd rather my daughters emulate those barbie princess anyday over the simpering disney tripe. In one, she actually kept trying to get rid of a guy who kept thinking she needed to be rescued. I absolutely won't let the Bratz dolls pass my doorstep.

We had a barbie war, our old neighbor worked for Mattel. He sent a box of them up our first xmas her. I conceded, it was our first rainy Oregon winter. They all wound up getting pierced and tattooed before spring. :lol:

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I wasn't allowed barbies growing up, and I have never bought any for my girls, though people do seem to insist on giving them for birthdays. I've lightened up on Barbie, especially after my hardcore feminist friend sent a package of barbie dvds for my daughter's fourth bday. She knew my daughter was getting into princesses. I was shocked. Anyway, we watched the vids. Barbie saves herself and the community by acting for herself, clearheaded thinking, courage, physical prowess and detmination. These were not Barbie stories of my day. I'd rather my daughters emulate those barbie princess anyday over the simpering disney tripe. In one, she actually kept trying to get rid of a guy who kept thinking she needed to be rescued. I absolutely won't let the Bratz dolls pass my doorstep.

All my sons had barbies as they loved to dress her up and brush her hair. My oldest really wanted to be a barbie clothing designer like Bob Mackie. My sons is thinking about asking his high school sweetheart to marry him (yes!)so I don't think barbie affected him in a negitive manner.

http://www.barbiecollector.com/collection/bob-mackie

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Not a mum either and was a complete tomboy as,a child. I used to HATE getting dolls. Although my mum is and was a feminist she has an idea about women being nurturing. But she finally accepted I was going to always vastly prefer the toy Uzi someone gave me to any number of baby dolls.

(Flash forward into the future from that. I have a photo of the aftermath of a carbomb on my wall. Not to everyone's taste, but to mine. I was told "A real woman would have baby photos or flowers." My vag must have grown wings and flown away when I wasn't looking.)

It is difficult to strike the balance but maybe let the child express herself in a pink and fluffy way if this is what she likes and ban the harmful manifestations? I do not think it works to train up a child against his or her inclination when it comes to toys and games, or interests in general.

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You can like feminine things that aren't pepto-bismol pink and glittery. I love matroyshka dolls, paisley patterns, bright lipstick and nail polish colours (and bright colours in general), fake flowers....the problem isn't feminine things, the problem is defining what it is to be feminine within a very narrow set of values.

Anyway, gender neutral toys like lego, teddy bears, toy food etc never go out of style :D

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I think a good rule of thumb is to think about how you would feel about your son playing with something. If you're ok with giving it to a daughter but not a son, you have to really think deeply and figure out why that is. If it's because you've been unconsciously buying into stereotypes about what boys can be, then you've just found a new toy for both your son and daughter. But if it's because it sends a wrong message or is degrading, then your daughter shouldn't have it either. I'm not saying that you would have to buy it for both kids because all kids are individuals and your son might just not be interested in some things, but if a hypothetical boy were interested and you wouldn't want him to have it, you have to think long and hard why you would want a girl to have it.

This is exactly how we approach it now that she can express a preference. Where toys or books are concerned we consider if we would be OK with a boy having it too and use that as a sort of litmus test.

And I agree with another poster that there can be feminine things that aren't drenched in pink-and-purple princess marketing. We've had to try a little harder to find them, but there are plenty of clothing options (Gymboree, Hanna Andersson, The Children's Place, Carter's, even Old Navy or Crazy 8 have many choices). Our little girl has a purple and green bedding set, and wears clothes that in many cases are definitely for a girl but are not pink/princess/character-themed. Right now she's pushing her baby doll around in a (pink) doll stroller. The doll stroller only came in pink for $9.99 at Target, and since we were unwilling to spend $55 on a fancy doll stroller at a high end toy store just to get a different color, she got pink. You go into Toys R Us and there's a very clear delineation between the "girl" section and the "boy" section for toys - which is why I almost never shop there.

For any parents who've struggled with finding more neutral toys, we've had great luck at IKEA. We got our daughter's play kitchen there and it is extremely sturdy and much more attractive than the plastic play kitchens that have a tendency to be so strongly-gendered. In general when meandering through the kids' section there are VERY few toys that you look at and think that it's really only for a girl or a boy.

You can also paint a lot of things. There's a spray paint type that's suitable for plastic and online I've seem numerous examples of someone getting a Freecycle or Craigslist outdoor play set or play house, or indoor play kitchen that's pink, and then repainting it to match their actual house or to suit a child's color preferences.

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This is exactly how we approach it now that she can express a preference. Where toys or books are concerned we consider if we would be OK with a boy having it too and use that as a sort of litmus test.

And I agree with another poster that there can be feminine things that aren't drenched in pink-and-purple princess marketing. We've had to try a little harder to find them, but there are plenty of clothing options (Gymboree, Hanna Andersson, The Children's Place, Carter's, even Old Navy or Crazy 8 have many choices). Our little girl has a purple and green bedding set, and wears clothes that in many cases are definitely for a girl but are not pink/princess/character-themed. Right now she's pushing her baby doll around in a (pink) doll stroller. The doll stroller only came in pink for $9.99 at Target, and since we were unwilling to spend $55 on a fancy doll stroller at a high end toy store just to get a different color, she got pink. You go into Toys R Us and there's a very clear delineation between the "girl" section and the "boy" section for toys - which is why I almost never shop there.

For any parents who've struggled with finding more neutral toys, we've had great luck at IKEA. We got our daughter's play kitchen there and it is extremely sturdy and much more attractive than the plastic play kitchens that have a tendency to be so strongly-gendered. In general when meandering through the kids' section there are VERY few toys that you look at and think that it's really only for a girl or a boy.

You can also paint a lot of things. There's a spray paint type that's suitable for plastic and online I've seem numerous examples of someone getting a Freecycle or Craigslist outdoor play set or play house, or indoor play kitchen that's pink, and then repainting it to match their actual house or to suit a child's color preferences.

Ikea is FANTASTIC for gender neutral toys (and kid stuff in general, and of course meatballs ;)). Scandinavian/other European countries do things for children so much better, I think.

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