Seven Sisters friends make me angry

[Koala]

From Jessica (7 sisters)

When I think of where she is right now and what she is seeing and hearing and feeling, oh my! I’m jealous!

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as very crass. We are talking about a 17 year old girl who has lost her life. She isn't on a freaking vacation, she's dead. :( :( :(

Like I said, I'm sorry, but things like this really get to me. My husband and I went to school with a girl who died of cancer at 11. She had bone cancer and died within a matter of months. No one was ever jealous of her...all we could think (even then) was that she would never get to grow up. I still think about her and her parents...

[clibbyjo]

From Jessica (7 sisters)

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as very crass. We are talking about a 17 year old girl who has lost her life. She isn't on a freaking vacation, she's dead. :( :( :(

Like I said, I'm sorry, but things like this really get to me. My husband and I went to school with a girl who died of cancer at 11. She had bone cancer and died within a matter of months. No one was ever jealous of her...all we could think (even then) was that she would never get to grow up. I still think about her and her parents...

I thought the same thing.

[Witsec7]

I'm sorry for her familys loss and her undue suffering. But I knew that the magik 7 would come up with this kind of shit.

[tankgirl]

Bless her Soul. Poor girl, so young.

Seven Sisters, live and grow up! Find some real joy in your life, so you don't write shit like, death envy, it is creepy and not normal. Normal people are happy to have a great day ahead, not jealous of a dead 17 year old girl. I am a lazy Pagan, who sincerally hopes well for the soul of Meredith, but in no way envy her death.

[Esther]

From Jessica (7 sisters)

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as very crass. We are talking about a 17 year old girl who has lost her life. She isn't on a freaking vacation, she's dead. :( :( :(

Like I said, I'm sorry, but things like this really get to me. My husband and I went to school with a girl who died of cancer at 11. She had bone cancer and died within a matter of months. No one was ever jealous of her...all we could think (even then) was that she would never get to grow up. I still think about her and her parents...

Yeah, I DON'T envy her. I am glad I didn't die when I was 17. I am glad I'm still alive. I feel awful for this poor young girl. Nobody should be jealous of someone who dies so tragically at such a very young age. That's just awful.

[mockingbird]

From Jessica (7 sisters)

I'm sorry, but this strikes me as very crass. We are talking about a 17 year old girl who has lost her life. She isn't on a freaking vacation, she's dead. :( :( :(

Like I said, I'm sorry, but things like this really get to me. My husband and I went to school with a girl who died of cancer at 11. She had bone cancer and died within a matter of months. No one was ever jealous of her...all we could think (even then) was that she would never get to grow up. I still think about her and her parents...

OMG that is terrible. I may comment on their blog about it, even though I don't normally post on fundy blogs, because it really strikes home for me too and is just... almost unbelievably insensitive.

My senior year of high school I was in the ICU for a few days and missed a lot of school thanks to this situation. It had to do with my ongoing medical problems and it was one of my worst hospital stays. I think it was pretty touch and go for awhile (don't remember much at all from that week) and it took me months to fully recover. When I got back to school one of the first things a "friend" told me was that she was jealous because her parents would never let her miss two weeks of school! :shock: Still remains one of the cruelest things that's ever been said to me. After that I no longer considered her a friend. She told me later in the year (we were in a lot of the same classes and clubs so we had to see each other) that I didn't know what suffering was. Ugh, still makes me livid. :evil:

[Witsec7]

Well its getting worse, Merediths Mom has a post up.

We rejoice in her salvation, in her life, in her death, in her present freedom FOREVER from pain and sin’s effects.

[Third]

Poor Meredith. Who rejoices in a 17 year dying and is jealous of them.

[socalrules]

Well its getting worse, Merediths Mom has a post up.

Freedom forever from pain and sin's effects? So was her cancer and pain a result of sin? What kind of sin could this child have committed which would result in God giving her cancer? Who mentions sin when they are talking about their child's recent death from cancer? Then again, if my child just died I am sure posting on a blog would be the last thing on my mind.

Now it has me wondering, maybe fundies really do think everything bad that happens is a result of someone sinning. I remember the whole sin-in-the-camp debate about the Duggars but I didn't know that all fundies thought like this. I hope neither this child or anyone else was blamed for her cancer and death.

[Elle]

Their decision to stop treatment pretty much at the start, when there was still a chance even if it was small, should have these people charged for child neglect and abuse, as well as cruelty for denying her pain medication when she needs it.

[NurseNell]

Their decision to stop treatment pretty much at the start, when there was still a chance even if it was small, should have these people charged for child neglect and abuse, as well as cruelty for denying her pain medication when she needs it.

I can't fault them for declining treatment, her particular cancer is a death sentence. But pain medication should never have been withheld, that is a crime. I also think at 17 she should have had say in whether she had treatment. On March 1st an 18 y.o. girl I know died of stage IV alveolar rhabdomyosarcoma, another very deadly and aggressive cancer. . Her parents listened to her, Claire said she wanted to fight, and she did. She wanted to live so badly and she went through grueling treatment for 16 months. When it became obvious she was losing the fight she wanted to be kept comfortable. She had hospice care at home, with no denying her morphine. And her parents aren't thinking she's in a better place, they are in deep mourning and sadness.

[Rachel333]

Freedom forever from pain and sin's effects? So was her cancer and pain a result of sin? What kind of sin could this child have committed which would result in God giving her cancer? Who mentions sin when they are talking about their child's recent death from cancer? Then again, if my child just died I am sure posting on a blog would be the last thing on my mind.

Now it has me wondering, maybe fundies really do think everything bad that happens is a result of someone sinning. I remember the whole sin-in-the-camp debate about the Duggars but I didn't know that all fundies thought like this. I hope neither this child or anyone else was blamed for her cancer and death.

It just means that pain and sickness are a result of sin in general, starting with Adam and Eve.

[Witsec7]

It just means that pain and sickness are a result of sin in general, starting with Adam and Eve.

No it means they believe in a cruel master that lacks compassion for his purported creations. I can't believe as a mother swallowing that line of bullshit while looking at the body of my dead daughter.

[NurseNell]

She had some treatment because she had a shunt inserted. This would indicate fluid was building up due to blockage by the tumor. A shunt is inserted to bypass the blockage and allow for normal drainage of cerebrospinal fluid. This in turn would reduce headaches caused by the fluid buildup.

Apparently she was diagnosed at Riley in Indiana. They did get a second opinion at John Hopkins. They seemed so set against trying conventional treatment from the get go, which I don't understand. I can understand arriving at that choice after looking into the various treatments but to be opposed from the onset seems wrong. And at 17 Meredith should really have been the one to decide.

[NurseNell]

Ok, she did have surgery soon after diagnosis. The tumor was partly removed. So it appears her parents were pursuing treatment.

[polabear]

I believe they were fine with surgery, but against chemo and radiation, which was her only very slight chance. I found a prayer request board where I think the seven sisters' mom was posting, and they were asking for help with a juicer and ingredients. Because juice works really well on brain cancer.

[Rachel333]

No it means they believe in a cruel master that lacks compassion for his purported creations. I can't believe as a mother swallowing that line of bullshit while looking at the body of my dead daughter.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. I just mean that it's unlikely that they actually think she had cancer because she sinned.

There's definitely a lot of pressure in Christian, especially fundie, circles to not be sad when people die. It sucks.

[BelieveinScience]

Freedom forever from pain and sin's effects? So was her cancer and pain a result of sin? What kind of sin could this child have committed which would result in God giving her cancer? Who mentions sin when they are talking about their child's recent death from cancer? Then again, if my child just died I am sure posting on a blog would be the last thing on my mind.

Now it has me wondering, maybe fundies really do think everything bad that happens is a result of someone sinning. I remember the whole sin-in-the-camp debate about the Duggars but I didn't know that all fundies thought like this. I hope neither this child or anyone else was blamed for her cancer and death.

I had a pastor tell me that kids with diseases or who died were being punished because of their parents sins or some such BS along those lines.

[NurseNell]

I had a pastor tell me that kids with diseases or who died were being punished because of their parents sins or some such BS along those lines.

What a bunch of crap. I can't believe people are stupid enough to believe it.

[LadyBlue]

Such a sad situation. I'm just appalled that they didn't give her pain relief. I guess in that case it's a good thing it was fast, she didn't have to suffer her family's "care" for very long.

Somewhat OT, but I notice everyone mentioning morphine for pain relief. Hopefully I never need it, but does anyone know if there are other drugs for comfort care besides morphine? I can not take the stuff, a single dose causes me to spend the next 24+ hours throwing up. After how often my husband was given it in hospital and this thread, I'm really wondering if there is anything else besides morphine.

[mockingbird]

Somewhat OT, but I notice everyone mentioning morphine for pain relief. Hopefully I never need it, but does anyone know if there are other drugs for comfort care besides morphine? I can not take the stuff, a single dose causes me to spend the next 24+ hours throwing up. After how often my husband was given it in hospital and this thread, I'm really wondering if there is anything else besides morphine.

Yes, there are. I can't find my hospice training book where I wrote all of them down, but another common one was dilaudid (which is also another OMG ADDICTION!!111! :o drug because it's very strong so it's a Very Big Deal to get it as a non-hospice patient). Another one was oxycodone but I don't remember if it was in the same class as morphine, or a step below. They also said they start by trying non-prescription stuff and just move up the "ladder" so to speak until they find a medication and dosage that controls the pain. I can't remember why morphine is so widely used, but I don't like taking anything stronger than plain tylenol with codeine, so when I have surgery I might take morphine (in the hospital and usually for the first day only) but ask for the lowest dose possible for my weight. I really, really hate being loopy and/or hallucinating which is why I don't take the stronger drugs. All the codeine does is make me fall asleep. (Tylenol with codeine works for me, otherwise I'd obviously try something different - it's not about noble suffering here just trying to avoid bad side effects!)

[NurseNell]

Such a sad situation. I'm just appalled that they didn't give her pain relief. I guess in that case it's a good thing it was fast, she didn't have to suffer her family's "care" for very long.

Somewhat OT, but I notice everyone mentioning morphine for pain relief. Hopefully I never need it, but does anyone know if there are other drugs for comfort care besides morphine? I can not take the stuff, a single dose causes me to spend the next 24+ hours throwing up. After how often my husband was given it in hospital and this thread, I'm really wondering if there is anything else besides morphine.

Dilaudid, but it's stronger than morphine and may cause you the same problem. Did you get an IV dose or a shot, or orally? It may have been dose related or the method by which given. There's also demerol but it's not nearly as effective as morphine, and it too causes nausea. Sometimes they can give you phenergan with an opiate and you might not get the vomiting. I think there are some newer combinations being used also. Maybe someone working in hospice would know.

[NurseNell]

I was on IV dilaudid for a week after stomach cancer surgery and was very thankful to the opiate gods for it as morphine didn't help at all.

My poor son was very ill last year with pancreatitis and he actually is very allergic to morphine, it turns out, with a true allergy of hives and angioedema.

I think morphine is used most often because it's relatively well tolerated by most people and can be given via IV, oral, IM, sublingual (a melting tab under the tongue) and via a patch. It's more effective than other opiates.

[Vex]

This makes me FURIOUS for many personal reasons.

I can understand and respect not wanting to give treatments that would just delay the inevitable - though I hope that was Meredith's choice.

The whole thing with denying pallative care, though? I find that monsterous.

Terminal cancer is an agonising, excuciating way to die. Dehydration is a nasty way to die, too. THAT is why they dope patients up with morphine. Better the morphine kill her than suffer a long, agonising death via dehydration with no pain relief. I want to go on that blog and post:

'Pray for a peaceful trip home? What a joke. Her kind of cancer was terminal, so I can understand undergoing alternative therapy rather than life-prolonging medical treatments, but I don't think you understand what she's going through. Meredith isn't peacefully sleeping. She is drowning internally. Her lungs are filled with fluid and every breath she struggles to draw is agony. That's what she's feeling all the time, now. Agony.

The pain of end stage cancer is inevitable, but it can be managed with the drugs you have dismissed. Why is it better for her to struggle through a prolonged, agonising death through dehydration and gradual organ shut-down than it is for her to die in her sleep while under the effects of morphine? I know that at the end stages of cancer sometimes all the drugs in the world don't help the pain, and I absolutely understand the desire to keep her at home, where she would have been more comfortable, but my understanding ends there.

Do you believe her suffering will make her more holy? Yourselves more holy?

If you believe God made everything, then you must also believe God made the scientists and doctors who invented and refined pallative care. Why would you choose to deny her those things? All I can think of is that you must not understand what your daughter is suffering through.

Bless. You.'

But I won't post it. They're grieving (I assume - they might be one of those 'celebrate their return to Jesus' families), and unlike them and their kind, I have compassion for others - even those whose choices and beliefs I vehmently oppose.

As for medications, I know my Grandad was given Fentanyl patches as an alternative to a morphine drip for pain relief after his amputation.

[mockingbird]

There's definitely a lot of pressure in Christian, especially fundie, circles to not be sad when people die. It sucks.

I remember when I was going through training to be a grief support group facilitator the trainers mentioned this as one of the reasons we *especially* should not say things like "they're in a better place"* at a grief support center. They said some families had so much pressure to focus on how the person was in a better place that they only felt comfortable acting sad/upset about the death at the grief center. Very sad. I have read materials where this attitude is contrasted to the Jewish practice of sitting Shiva which openly acknowledges grief.

It's one thing to have comfort that a loved one isn't suffering anymore or believe they are in a better place, but that shouldn't necessarily negate any anger or sadness that they aren't here on earth anymore. I think you can feel both at the same time. (Then again, complicated feelings aren't something fundies do well.)

*They didn't advocate saying this in general because you might not know what the person believes and even if you do, it might send the message that you don't want to hear about their sadness/grief.

ETA: We had a girl tonight who told us her mom was having parties with Jesus in heaven (I work with preschoolers). I hope Meredith is enjoying those, has to be better than her last few days. After all, Jesus turned water to wine... :shhh: