Weird fundy mommy guilt

[ladypuglover]

Katiebug, my kids had on going colds and stuff too at that same age but the difference is a clear mucus cold doesn't need a doctor's care but a yellow or green muscus should be checked out. There have been times that I took my kids to the doctor and didn't need to because I just didn't know and other times I waited a day or 2 longer than I should have. But never wait 6 or more weeks with an on going infection. And you are aware of your child's illness and do have her under a doctor's care. You are self treating with pickles or some crap like that. Yes, diet does affect health but not in this lady's case.

By the way, my always sick babies grew up to almost never gets sick kids/ adults.

[Katiebug]

The kicker is that we took her in 2-3 times already this winter for green and/or yellow snot only to be told (nicely) that we were overreacting. Daycare called one day and said they thought she might have a sinus infection, so in we went to the doctor. The pediatrician said that it's common for daycare providers to think that anything but clear snot equals a sinus infection, when in fact it needs to be brightly colored for a prolonged period of time AND the child needs to have a fever.

Everyone tells me that the rash of illnesses happens the first time a kid is in a group setting, regardless of whether it's as an infant or when they start school. I just think we should have bought stock in Boogie Wipes. :lol:

I think it's batshit crazy to not take a child to the doctor if there's a reason, and a high fever is a damned good reason. I just get defensive about this sort of thing because we really do seek medical care for our kid, yet a casual observer might think we're ignoring obvious illness. :oops: Carry on!

[Islandmom]

I just don't understand them. Honestly if children are blessings why the heck do they treat them like this. I freaked the other day when my just turned 5 year old suddenly spiked a fever of 102.7 out of no where. She had been fine just an hour before but was suddenly just lying around and looked miserable. I called dh at work and had him bring some meds home sine dd has decided no more liquid medicines for her. LOL He brought home chewable tylonal and it went down, but I called my neighbor who is a PA and asked what else I should do anyway. Still don't have a clue what the fever was about. She is fine now thankfully. I totally believe in healthy living but come on, not everything can be treated with vegetables and yogurt!

[contrary]

It's particularly scary with second-generation fundies. The first generation, like for example Zsu, is still likely to retain SOME of the education they once got and may EVENTUALLY decide to send their sick kid do a doctor because deep down they do know doctors Know Things. The second generation, if they stay fundie? They have heard all their lives that doctors are evil perverts, so yeah, sucks to be their kids. :-/

totally agree with this, about the second generation.

[constantgardener]

I actually feel sick thinking about her kids being ill for so long and her not getting medical help. There is a big difference between being a bit under par for a few days and being wiped out for five weeks. I feel terrible if I send my kids to school with a slight cough, for heaven's sake (although I guess that's my fault for sending them out into the fallen world). I know antibiotics are not the answer to everything but does she not realize that before modern medicine and immunizations it was expected that most families would lose at least one or two kids to diseases which are now easily treatable? I'll bet back then they were praying to be able to see a doctor!

[TXDuck]

So nearly everyone in her family has been sick for five weeks and she blames a broken world? Let's accept the "broken world" theory for a minute. Why in the world would "sin" prevent you from adequately caring for your family? Seriously, she's going to permanently damage/kill one of her kids at this rate.

My daughter daughter had scarlet fever when she was 11 months old. In small children, strep can easily overwhelm their systems. It is not to be fucked around with. Ironically, it's usually No Big Deal© if you get it treated right away.

[Conuly]

reds said:

Would you care to explain which bacteria are the "good" ones, and how they fight colds, which are caused by viruses? I'm always willing to learn, but this does not sound right to me.

Well, I'm not an expert, but surely you've heard of probiotics and the like? Most bacteria are harmless to us, and a small number are beneficial.

[constantgardener]

Well, I'm not an expert, but surely you've heard of probiotics and the like? Most bacteria are harmless to us, and a small number are beneficial.

I think it works more in terms of good bacteria building up your immune system so that you are better able to fight off both viruses and bacterial infections. Also, if you do have to take antibiotics, taking a course of probiotics afterwards can help re-balance your system. I always find I get thrush after taking antibiotics :oops: because both the good and bad bacteria are wiped out. But obviously bacteria and viruses are two different things and neither antibiotics or probiotics will kill a virus.

[Conuly]

But obviously bacteria and viruses are two different things and neither antibiotics or probiotics will kill a virus.

That's what google is telling me. Bacteria can kill certain other things, though, right?

[constantgardener]

That's what google is telling me. Bacteria can kill certain other things, though, right?

Here my knowledge of human biology ends! I will have to check with the head of the household (a proper medical expert!).

[TXDuck]

Good bacteria can aid in digestion. As far as I know, not even "good bacteria" can affect viruses. For that, you need specific antiviral medicines.

[Islandmom]

Per the bacteria discussion...according to the book my dd is reading about "Your Body is Weird" LOL, the bacteria on our skin and in our body is mostly harmless and actually can be helpful because 1....it takes up space that other harmful bacteria could grow and 2...some bacteria fight other harmful bacteria. Apparently scientists are thinking of introducing a certain type of bacteria to toothpaste and mouthwash because that bacteria kills the bacteria that causes tooth decay and can reduce the presence of that bacteria by 99%

LOL, oh the things I learn from my kiddo!

[lilwriter85]

I actually feel sick thinking about her kids being ill for so long and her not getting medical help. There is a big difference between being a bit under par for a few days and being wiped out for five weeks. I feel terrible if I send my kids to school with a slight cough, for heaven's sake (although I guess that's my fault for sending them out into the fallen world). I know antibiotics are not the answer to everything but does she not realize that before modern medicine and immunizations it was expected that most families would lose at least one or two kids to diseases which are now easily treatable? I'll bet back then they were praying to be able to see a doctor!

This. I feel the same way too. I remember this moron's post on the museums and I thought she was wacky then. She at least needs to get her kids some medical care.

[Boltingmadonna]

I was hoping one of our medical people would come along and explain this, because it's complicated and I'm not a professional. But I do know that bacteria don't kill viruses. It's the other way around. There are some types of virus called "phages" (which means "eaters") that can invade and destroy bacteria. However, they do this in order to create more copies of themselves, so you would not want them doing that in your body unless they were relatively harmless compared to the bacteria.

It's true that humans have large numbers of what are called commensal bacteria living inside and on us and doing various things, some of which are neutral and some of which are beneficial. This is mostly true of our intestines, where the normal intestinal flora actually help us digest food and occupy the space so pathogenic bacteria can't get in.

It's also true that scientists are working to engineer bacteria that could attack other bacteria by releasing toxins that will kill them. However, this is a long way from testing on humans, and these would be very specially engineered bacteria, not just random stuff you would pick up from a faucet or door handle.

I don't think you can really "build up" your immune system by exposing yourself to lots of illnesses. I recommend the Wikipedia article because it is really complicated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody Briefly, your body will produce antigens specifically engineered to lock onto the proteins produced by bacteria or viruses. But each antigen is specific to a particular invader. It doesn't make you any more able to resist a different illness.

Briefly, eating probiotics probably can't hurt you, and might help your digestion. But it isn't going to do squat for preventing pathogen-borne illnesses. Also, you can't make yourself healthier by catching lots of illnesses. If you catch bacteria A, and a couple of weeks later, you're exposed to it again, you probably won't catch it, because you still have those antibodies. But if you are exposed to bacteria B, the A antigens won't help you a bit. And if you're exposed to A years later, after your body has allowed the A antigens to fade away, you'll get sick all over again. You can catch viruses repeatedly, because they mutate so it's hard to develop resistance.

Sorry this is so longwinded.

[Lady]

Is she sure it's not the sourkrout making him sick in the first place? That stuff is nasty.

And really infections are nothing to mess with. In August I had a UTI that became a kidney infection. It was so severe, I was in and out of the hospital and on multiple rounds of antibiotics. i was in so much pain I couldn't walk. 7 months later I am still suffering some pain and I am in physical therapy. And I went to the doctor.

[sableduck]

I know Trina personally and live near her. In this area, homeopath/healing properties of yogurt/no vax/heal everything with nutrition isn't a fundie thing. Actually, she is the only quasi fundie I know who is really into it; but it is a HUGE lifestyle around here. Mostly though it is atheist/agnostic liberals. So while I think there may be somewhat pf a lack of a scientific education, I also think it is part of the prevailing culture where we live. Honestly, my fully vaccinated, delivered by elective c section son is the strange kid around here.

[meda]

Sableduck, I realize it's not just a fundy thing, and I know a couple liberal atheist moms who are almost as bad, but I have never heard them attribute illness to Satan, they at least believe in the idea of germs. On another note, I had no idea that part of upstate was so crunchy, why do you think that is, the college /hippy thing maybe?

[sableduck]

It's a very local thing. I never ran into it when I lived just thirty miles away, but this particular area is filled with the hippie/crunchy attitude. Add to this a large mixture of Amish and Old Order Mennonites, and it can all be a little surreal. Which is fine and everyone has the rihjt to choose their lifestyle, but listening to people recommend valerian root instead of meds to a mom of a little boy with epilepsy, my medically trained brain starts screaming. While I haven't heard them attribute illness to Satan, obviously, I have heard a lot of crunchy mom talk about feeling guilty when their kids get sick, and assume it is because they weren't feeding them enough kombucha/yogurt/probiotic supplements/raw milk. I honestly think it is a localized culture thing that Trina has put a fundie twist on.

[sableduck]

Oh, and Trina believes in germs, she just believes that the immune system can be built up through nutrition and exposure to the germs. However, she views that through the Christian lens OT sometimes God just allows sickness to invade because it is a fallen world. She explains this on her anti vaccination pages.

[meda]

Interesting, are there any circumstances in which she would take her children to a doctor? If one of them broke a leg, I'm hoping she wouldn't just slap a comfrey poultice on it?

[Kelsey]

Sableduck, I realize it's not just a fundy thing, and I know a couple liberal atheist moms who are almost as bad, but I have never heard them attribute illness to Satan, they at least believe in the idea of germs. On another note, I had no idea that part of upstate was so crunchy, why do you think that is, the college /hippy thing maybe?

I've never heard of an atheist that believed in Satan.

[sableduck]

Yeah, they would go to the ER for that. She has asked me a couple times to do a CPR/first aid class for moms, and especially include when to go to the emergency room and when its okay to stay home. Maybe I should do that...

[meda]

I've never heard of an atheist that believed in Satan.

Good point, I was just trying to make the distinction between batshit crazy crunchy mommy and batshit crazy fundy mommy.

And sable duck, please do the class, I think it would be a public service to those kids.

[bananacat]

Probiotics can be useful, but not for preventing colds. Your intestines are full of bacteria. There's an entire ecosystem in there. You need some of them to survive because they break down certain nutrients that we can't do on our own. The purpose of probiotics is that they provide competition to make it harder for nasty strains to thrive in there. So in that sense, they can help prevent certain diseases that would lead to digestive issues, but the benefit doesn't extend far beyond that.

You also have ecosystems inside your vagina and inside your mouth. Taking antibiotics can kill off some of the good stuff down there, allowing the itchy strains to take over. That's why antibiotics can sometimes cause vaginosis (usually referred to as a yeast infection although about half the time it's a bacterial infection). For your mouth, there has been some research going on to develop less harmful strains of bacteria that will grow in your mouth and push out the ones that produce more tooth-dissolving acid. As far as I know, this research is still in its infancy, but in the future it might be a significant part of oral care.

Getting lots of colds as a child might be beneficial to your immune system, but in the way people here have described. There is a "hygiene hypothesis" that some experts think a lot of allergies and auto-immune diseases are caused by not enough exposure to germs. The theory is that if the immune system doesn't get enough harmful things to worry about, it won't get exercised correctly so it will be more likely to over-react to certain foods. The jury is still out on this one but if there are no long-term effects from all those colds, they're probably harmless long-term and possibly beneficial. And of course you can only catch a specific disease once, so the kid will never get that particular strain of that cold again. Unfortunately there are thousands or millions of different strains so it's really a drop in the bucket.

[AmyP]

reds said:

Would you care to explain which bacteria are the "good" ones, and how they fight colds, which are caused by viruses? I'm always willing to learn, but this does not sound right to me.

all the surfaces of your body, inside and out are covered with bacteria that don't make you sick. Many of these bacteria secrete chemicals that keep other bacteria from invading their space. In addition, just by living on your body surfaces, they prevent harmful bacteria from having a place to attach, and they use up the available resources that harmful bacteria need to stay alive. So, when you kill off the good bacteria, there is "real estate" available for harmful bacteria to set up colonies. This is why you sometimes get a yeast infection when you are on an antibiotic. When you clean out all the "good" bacteria down there you create a perfect environment for yeast to move in. There is no longer any competition.