Weird fundy mommy guilt

[meda]

Sometimes the willful ignorance of the young hip fundy mommy bloggers blows my mind. This one who has posted before about how much she loved the creation museum, now she has a post about how her whole family has been sick, and how guilty she feels about it.

Now mind you, she doesn't feel guilty about not bringing the kids to a doctor....of course not. She feels guilty because she clearly has not been feeding them enough yogurt and fermented veggies. Then she chides herself for her arrogance...clearly Sauerkraut is a useless weapon when we live in a fallen world filled with corruption and sin :doh: Apparently SOTDRT did not include germ theory.

trinaholden.com/2012/03/7404/

[gustava]

Obviously, she needs to add pickles to their diets. The Duggars are never sick.

[HijabiLady]

So antibiotics are not an option? Her description sounds like a bacterial infection, specifically the green snot part. I wonder if she realizes if her children have strep they could very likely get permanent heart damage by not using antibiotics?

[FlorenceHamilton]

So antibiotics are not an option? Her description sounds like a bacterial infection, specifically the green snot part. I wonder if she realizes if her children have strep they could very likely get permanent heart damage by not using antibiotics?

Hijabilady, would you like to be my practice partner?

[sableduck]

If you read further, you will discover that she does not use doctors or antibiotics. Also, she grew up in a tipi with many siblings after her parents discovered Gothard and homesteading.

[Conuly]

Oh god. Strep, also known as the root cause of scarlet fever (the scourge of all those book characters that don't die of "consumption"), is really nothing to play around with.

And sinus infections shouldn't last that long without being looked into. They can lead so quickly to bronchitis, pneumonia, strep (as mentioned), ear infections (which can cause permanent hearing loss and probably lasting problems with balance and coordination)....

Does never ever seeing a doctor even when children are desperately ill for over a month constitute medical neglect? And, more importantly, can we get anybody to listen and track her down? Because those poor children...!

[sableduck]

Her children have never seen a doctor. She writes of a naturopath that she saw years ago, but she is solidly in the homeopathic only camp.

[ladypuglover]

My sister next up from me had scarlet fever and nearly died from in the late 70's. My mother had been taking her to the doctor and she was on penicillin but still got scarlet fever.

This woman is pyscho and loves her pretend/wann be life style more than the reality of being a good mother.

[AudreyE]

Oh, outstanding.

The Bible doesn't mention germs. Ebil scientists made them up when they were telling tales about ice ages, big bangs, global warming, and monkey-men.

These people are out-breeding the rest of us. Let's never forget that.

[Minerva]

My sister next up from me had scarlet fever and nearly died from in the late 70's. My mother had been taking her to the doctor and she was on penicillin but still got scarlet fever.

This woman is pyscho and loves her pretend/wann be life style more than the reality of being a good mother.

Both my siblings have had to spend the night in the hospital on IV drips after the person looking after them tried to treat their fevers with cold packs instead of medicine. In both cases it started out as an uncomplicated stomach bug. We have socialized medicine, but when you're paying all your own healthcare costs that's a pretty expensive mistake to make. Not to mention the trauma of having seizures and night terrors the way my sibs do when their temperature gets too high. Even if they get through it without any major damage it's still not fair to put them through all the extra discomfort that a $10 bottle of Tylenol could avoid.

[Third]

From the blog and the comments - is it considered normal to be sick for six weeks? That seems like a really long time.

Although the more extreme mothers I know try and convince me a fever 105-106 isn't that bad 108-110 is when it's bad. I am in the ER when it gets to 104 if fever reducer doesn't work and you know if you call the doctor and your kid has a temp of 104 and fever reducer isn't working they say go to the ER.

[WanderingStar]

From the blog and the comments - is it considered normal to be sick for six weeks? That seems like a really long time.

Six weeks doesn't seem normal but I'm sure there are others who've been sick for just as long, providing that the illness isn't chronic. When I was seventeen my dad took me to NYC for a special New Year's trip. I felt myself getting sick with a cold the night before we left but there was no way I was going to back down from going. I'm sure being around so many people and the cold air made it worse but I'll never regret going. But I ended up ill for the entire month afterward and it was probably half a year before I felt 100% better from it. It got bad enough that my dad was beginning to think I had pneumonia and I did almost go to the hospital over it. I missed ten days of school and it's a miracle I graduated with everyone else that year.

The difference between my story and Trina's, though, is that not just my parents but my entire family believes in modern medicine. I do like the idea of trying natural remedies for small things like headaches and coughs, and as a person of faith I do believe in prayer, but I will never deny a doctor's visit or even a hospital visit to figure things out if it seems like it's becoming necessary. I was in drama club and had a role in a play, and when my illness started interfering with rehearsing for it and almost jeopardized even being in the play, I was more than thankful for the urgent care clinic, unpleasant as some of the trips were. Again, coming from another Christian's perspective, what if God is working through the doctors and nurses? I would think that if He didn't want us to trust our bodies to them, He'd consistently make the treatments they offer fail. I may have been out of sorts for half a year, but without proper treatment, Trina's kids could have lifetime problems that could have otherwise been prevented. Strep is no joke. Oh well, maybe they put more faith in God Daddy/Headship than I do.

[Conuly]

When I was seventeen my dad took me to NYC for a special New Year's trip. I felt myself getting sick with a cold the night before we left but there was no way I was going to back down from going.

The difference is that you were, at 17, basically an adult already and making your own decisions about your health.

An 18 month old child is not an adult, nor even an older child who might be reasonably expected to have some input about his medical needs. And to make it worse, diseases that might pass easily in a healthy young adult can be very severe in a baby.

Her responsibility is to make good medical decisions for her child until he's old enough to make them for himself. She's failing in that, badly.

[WanderingStar]

The difference is that you were, at 17, basically an adult already and making your own decisions about your health.

An 18 month old child is not an adult, nor even an older child who might be reasonably expected to have some input about his medical needs. And to make it worse, diseases that might pass easily in a healthy young adult can be very severe in a baby.

Her responsibility is to make good medical decisions for her child until he's old enough to make them for himself. She's failing in that, badly.

Oh, I know. It was my choice to go despite being sick and it was my choice to go to urgent care in the end, even when I really hated to. But I know if all of this had happened when I was younger, my parents would've still taken me to a doctor. I had a very high fever when I was a few months old and I was taken to the ER, rightfully so. I'm just very happy that I have people that care about me and value common sense above questionable doctrine, and by the same token, I'm very afraid for this poor child whose mom thinks that with just enough sauerkraut, she can cure all. Not that I'm skeptical of the benefits of sauerkraut. I love eating it right out the jar!

Personally, I sometimes think there should be certain times the law can intervene in a child's welfare before they reach 18 years of age, especially at an age where it's tough for them to communicate their needs, but there are so many gray areas when it comes to that. There's already enough argument about what exactly constitutes as abuse.

[Three and Done]

From the blog and the comments - is it considered normal to be sick for six weeks? That seems like a really long time.

Although the more extreme mothers I know try and convince me a fever 105-106 isn't that bad 108-110 is when it's bad. I am in the ER when it gets to 104 if fever reducer doesn't work and you know if you call the doctor and your kid has a temp of 104 and fever reducer isn't working they say go to the ER.

Holy shit... Brain death starts to occur around 107.5... Are these people TRYING to kill their children/leave them permanently damaged?

My middle DD was admitted to the hospital with a temp of 106 that was NOT going down. The pediatrician on call basically caved to my demand that she be admitted, since she had no fucking clue what was wrong with her... It turned out she was SEPTIC with (guess what?) strep and could very well have died. She was three years old. The doctors informed me that if the antibiotics didn't work, there wasn't much they could do. Thankfully, after five days in the hospital, she came around - although she had to have a PICC line and IV antibiotics for some time after that. (Oh yeah, she had pnuemonia and tonsillitis too.)

If you truly LOVE your children, you provide them with proper medical care!!! It makes me sick to see this kind of garbage! Holding your baby in your arms, knowing she may die, is the most heartbreaking experience on this planet.

[WanderingStar]

If you truly LOVE your children, you provide them with proper medical care!!! It makes me sick to see this kind of garbage! Holding your baby in your arms, knowing she may die, is the most heartbreaking experience on this planet.

Precisely! This is the point I was trying to get at all along. I know if the day comes for me to ever be a mother I'll learn as much about my children as I can and look out for any potential diseases/conditions that could be harmful. I'd rather be safe than sorry. False alarms are much less shameful than a child either dying or being completely messed up for the rest of their life thanks to their guardian's carelessness. Sometimes I really do wonder if most fundies don't realize that being truly pro-life means giving the best life possible to their living children as well.

And I'm so glad your daughter made it through her case of strep, Three and Done!

[EmmieJ]

If you truly LOVE your children, you provide them with proper medical care!!! It makes me sick to see this kind of garbage! Holding your baby in your arms, knowing she may die, is the most heartbreaking experience on this planet.

This is another disturbing aspect of fundies (I know not all fundies are like this, but too many are!): Their distrust of doctors and modern medicine; their nonchalance about their own children's health and well-being. What causes the breakdown of maternal instinct to protect your young?

[Miggy]

Obviously, she needs to add pickles to their diets. The Duggars are never sick.

Not quite true. The Duggars are quite proud of being sick as long as they all get sick together or there is some drama involved; the chicken pox outbreak when Josie was little, the Bates visit where Gil & JB clean out the local pharmacist to provide drugs for the sick kids, Jordyn needing to go to hospital with a "cold" during the ice storm.

[Esther]

This is another disturbing aspect of fundies (I know not all fundies are like this, but too many are!): Their distrust of doctors and modern medicine; their nonchalance about their own children's health and well-being. What causes the breakdown of maternal instinct to protect your young?

It's particularly scary with second-generation fundies. The first generation, like for example Zsu, is still likely to retain SOME of the education they once got and may EVENTUALLY decide to send their sick kid do a doctor because deep down they do know doctors Know Things. The second generation, if they stay fundie? They have heard all their lives that doctors are evil perverts, so yeah, sucks to be their kids. :-/

[Tempehst]

Clearly she wasn't praying hard enough. Maybe she should try sacrificing one of the healthy kids on an alter so God will cure the sick one. I heard he used to like that sort of thing!

I'm pretty sure the person you quoted was being sarcastic. At least that's how I read it ;)

[Katiebug]

Then I guess I'm a shitty mother too, because my 19 month old has been sick almost continuously since October. It's basically just one viral cold/URI after another - as soon as she starts recovering from one, a new one starts (courtesy of the little germ magnets at daycare). After several visits to the pediatrician where I was told by various doctors in the practice that it's viral and all that can be done is to spray saline in her nose, give her inhalers as needed, and watch for a fever - I'm not bringing her back to the doctor for snot (including green snot) unless the symptoms change. This pediatrics group is stingy with antibiotics because I guess in the past parents would demand antibiotics for their special snowflakes for infections that were obviously viral and this contributes to antibiotic resistance.

That said, a fever results in Motrin being given and the pediatrician's nurse advice line being called. She's never spiked a temp over 102, and that one time she had an ear infection. A fever of 107 would mean an immediate ER trip - like potentially via ambulance, depending on her condition.

She was even sicker her first winter, during which she was also in daycare. This winter has been slightly less bad, and overall we've been fortunate that her illnesses are colds and upper respiratory bugs; several of my friends with kids her age have dealt with repeated ear infections, GI bugs, and bona fide sinus infections. She's had antibiotics only twice so far. I attribute her generally decent health despite the maelstrom of germs at daycare to the fact that she's still breastfeeding - because of her asthma I was strongly encouraged to keep nursing through the winter cold/flu season and am very glad that I did.

And according to the fundies, by definition I'm a shitty mother because I dare to work AND have my kid in an evil daycare. Clearly I don't recognize that my God-given place is in the home. :roll: (And if I quit we'd be homeless, because my husband's income isn't sufficient to support our family around here and we'd lose our house. I think the fundies would probably say it would be worth it to destroy our credit, be forced to give up our dog, and move to a cheap 1 bedroom apartment in an unsafe neighborhood if that enabled me to be a SAHM.)

[golden_love]

Katiebug, my five year old grandson went through pretty much the same type of illness. Even though he went to preschool, there seemed to be quite a bit of infections spreading around. Like the blogger's child, he had a sinus infection that lasted nearly two months, got super skinny, and just laid around. He had two rounds of antibiotics and it still persisted. I had a sinus infection as an adult that last three months and I lost about 18 pounds. It took me nearly a year to regain my weight. The blogger shouldn't mess around with infections. I know doctors get it wrong like with my grandson who didn't get the right type of antibiotics the first time, but in the end the doc figured it out. This mother has been told to fear authority figures, but it makes no sense. I feel badly for her children who are suffering needlessly. I doubt she'll change her approach unless something awful happens.

[Third]

There is a difference between taking your kid to the doctor and just letting them be sick and blaming the lack of fermented what-its in the kids' diet.

[reds]

Katiebug: I also have my kids in daycare. Have been since 10 months old.

The cold bugs they get now will actually help them in later years. My kids were both sick almost continuously with some thing or another from the little germ bags, they were germ bags too, for the first 3 years. Then it fell off drastically. Now my 7 year old seems to be able to survive any bug that attacks and hasnt been sick this winter. The 3 year old is still a germ bag but it is getting less and less. My 7 year old hasn't missed school for illness yet this year.

When they are newborn and toddlers their immune system is so much better than when they are older. (providing that they dont have alternate concerns) A flu that killed me for 2 days only laid my DD out for 12 hours. Adults compromise that immunity with the anti-bacterial lotions, and hand cleaner that are ever present in todays world. They kill more good bacteria than bad. We need the good bacteria to help us fight off the colds.

[Boltingmadonna]

reds said:

We need the good bacteria to help us fight off the colds.

Would you care to explain which bacteria are the "good" ones, and how they fight colds, which are caused by viruses? I'm always willing to learn, but this does not sound right to me.