The Duggars screw over the Friendly Chapel/BATES EPISODE3/13

[Guest Anonymous]

Ummm....it was intentional, and it proved my point.

[Witsec7]

I had heard differently, but do not doubt that you have the right of it. A tiny bit of googling and I came up with this:

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=543

So it's only Billie's autobiography that gives her credit.

Yea I tend to correct a lot of folks when it comes to this since I'm a Commie and being Abe was a Commie, Americans don't like to give him credit. :D

[shesinsane]

Sorry for being a wee bit out of topic...

Can someone recommend a few titles of books on the subject of the American Civil War? Biographies or non-fiction only, as much as I do enjoy historical fiction novels I'd like to read something with more "meat"...

Thanks in advance.

ps: I have "Team of Rivals", which I haven't read yet (got it last Christmas).

"Mary Chesnut's Civil War" the diary of a lady of the Confederacy. She had a lot of quotes and voiceovers in Ken Burn's Civil War series. Very meaty, the kind you read with a few other books. :)

"Diary of a Confederate Soldier" was written by a Confederate soldier named John S. Jackman.

If you haven't already read it, "Gone With The Wind" will give you the average American's idea of what the Civil War was (people are more likely to remember the movie than history class). It's fiction, but it's such a reference point for modern Americans.

I live in SC and the Confederate flag is flown by many of my friends. I do not fly it but I do think those who are offended should get over it! You are not and have never been a slave and I have never been a slave owner. The flag is what you make of it. If you want to continue the hate and contempt then keep it in your own yard. I will not try to rub my opinions in anyone's face as well, but since ya'll are expressing your opinions---here's mine. History is history. Period. We can't change it and I sure as FUCK ain't gonna apologize for it!

And the KKK made it theirs, with the consent of the rest of the South. Let's say a few Klansmen burned down someone's house. What if all the black folk in town and white folk in town got together to find and punish the ones who did it? Why did that never happen? So often many people in town knew who the Klan members were, but after there was an incident or attack the rest of the town didn't turn on the Klansmen? One could conclude that even the white people that weren't actively lynching blacks weren't supporting their attempts at equality.

The Loving family (as in Loving v Virginia) were a white boy and black girl who grew up together in rural Virginia. You want the Confederate flag to represent their happy family of proud Southerners. Instead, that flag represents the laws which prevented the Lovings getting married in Virginia because of their difference in race.

Experiencedd beat me to the Meerepole reference. :)

[holierthanyou]

Geniebelle, your bridge is missing you.

[Witsec7]

geniebelle wrote:

Bottom line, and this is the last post I'll make. If you come to America learn English and learn to speak it in such a way that people can understand you. If that makes me an ignorant, racist, elitist bitch then so be it. I don't care.

[marmalade]

I live in SC and the Confederate flag is flown by many of my friends. I do not fly it but I do think those who are offended should get over it!

Fuck you. I have many friends Palmetto born and raised and NONE of them voted to have the stars and bars fly over the state capitol when it came to a vote c. 2000. Even my friend who went to the fucking CITADEL was against flying that flag as a symbol of "state's rights"...why? Because as a Southerner, who went to a Southern military college, and through his own research (he's a voracious reader and wicked smart), he was able to discern right from wrong and claims the Palmetto flag as HIS state's flag.

I think geniebelle needs a break on THIS topic. I piqued her on the linguistic stuff; I expected to be picked apart by the Kelly Bates quote. And thanks for the person who posted Gil and Kelly's collegeS. They may be accredited now, but were they in 1987? As someone pointed out, Anderson was only a 2 year school back then (and I think I know the only Catholics in Anderson at the time...11 kids). Whoever posted that the transfer school was in NC is incorrect; it was in TN, where they settled.

Ironic how a couple could settle wherever they want (unless Gil's family is there...have we seen them?) before they entered the world of Gothard. Then again, they may have encountered it in college if they were in Nashville. In the special, Gil says that they searched the Bible for a couple of MONTHS after they got married to resolve the issue of family size. This says to me that the families weren't on board with it, but once they were on their "own," they went out full bore.

Kelly is a freak of nature; yeah, she's had gesational diabetes (and gets a speshul diet, just like Mullet!), but she's never had a c-section. But then Mullet has two sets of fraternal twins, so we know Boob has good swimmers. Hell, both of them have to given the cavern down there. I'm sure the ladies have to put pillows under their butts and keep their legs in the air for half an hour after every convergence of "sweet fellowship" during those fertile days.

BUT, the fun begins when the periods become irregular. If I wanted, I could time a pregnancy even though I'm semi-irregular: one ovary is now on about a 5-6 week cycle, the other perfectly regular, ovulating off the hormones from the previous cycle, no matter when it showed up. Perimenopause sucks, but when/if this happens to them, they're going to FREAK.

Oh, good luck defending the stars and bars (doesn't deserve capitalization) to those patients. If I was a black patient and found out what you did on your offtime (for the Cause), I'd greet you, but you would run like Chicken fuckin Little.

State's Rights does not fly. Nor should that offensive flag. Period.

[marmalade]

This is unfair. As someone in the education field, it has been proven that ANY immigrant who wants to attain a high school diploma level of competence, needs 7 years to fully understand nuances that are necessary in school AND the workplace. My studies are geared towards K-12, but adults who come with them obviously have a harder time and are often taught English by their CHILDREN.

Don't challenge me on this. I live it. Many of my kids speak this weird Spanglish that as a teacher I have to decipher individually. And depending where they come from, when the Spanish teacher comes in, half of them can't speak or discern their own language cues.

Good news, these kids are eager to learn and are being taught in ENGLISH. The younger, the better, but I've seen great progress in high school students as well, Latino, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc. My city has the 2nd largest number of languages/dialects spoken in the US behind NYC.

Learn something about other cultures and the world of "in-between" or better yet, read the lectures of Edwidge Danticat before you insist that people have to do THIS to be American. Did I say fuck you yet? If not, fuck you on behalf of every immigrant, including those who were marginalized in the past...maybe you're luck has run out and you're Irish. That potato famine sucked....

[Witsec7]

This is unfair. As someone in the education field, it has been proven that ANY immigrant who wants to attain a high school diploma level of competence, needs 7 years to fully understand nuances that are necessary in school AND the workplace. My studies are geared towards K-12, but adults who come with them obviously have a harder time and are often taught English by their CHILDREN.

Don't challenge me on this. I live it. Many of my kids speak this weird Spanglish that as a teacher I have to decipher individually. And depending where they come from, when the Spanish teacher comes in, half of them can't speak or discern their own language cues.

Good news, these kids are eager to learn and are being taught in ENGLISH. The younger, the better, but I've seen great progress in high school students as well, Latino, Asian, Pacific Islander, etc. My city has the 2nd largest number of languages/dialects spoken in the US behind NYC.

Learn something about other cultures and the world of "in-between" or better yet, read the lectures of Edwidge Danticat before you insist that people have to do THIS to be American. Did I say fuck you yet? If not, fuck you on behalf of every immigrant, including those who were marginalized in the past...maybe you're luck has run out and you're Irish. That potato famine sucked....

I love you for many reasons Marmalade, not just for giving me the bacon bra. Referring to Edwidge's lectures sends my heart a thumping with great joy.

I did read a longitudinal data study (can't recall where) that indicates that our new immigrants are acquiring language at the same rate as the immigrants of my parents generation. My parents may have been polyglots, but that did not mean they were literate in the languages they spoke, nor did it mean that they were proficient in acceptable grammar and syntax in those languages. And in those days they went to schools that were language segregated, ergo had my father continued his education on this side of the pond he would have gone to a school (parochial) that was taught in Polish.

[brigid]

Yea I tend to correct a lot of folks when it comes to this since I'm a Commie and being Abe was a Commie, Americans don't like to give him credit. :D

I'm always happy to learn something, so thanks.

Back in the day, the husbeast's band covered Strange Fruit. Imagine it speed up in late 80's alternarock fashion and sung by Grace Slick. It was rather awesome.

[Witsec7]

I'm always happy to learn something, so thanks.

Back in the day, the husbeast's band covered Strange Fruit. Imagine it speed up in late 80's alternarock fashion and sung by Grace Slick. It was rather awesome.

I've got a copy of Gracies version on my iPod. She still had pipes back then :D I also heard Jerry Garcia do a version on a solo tour back in the early 80s.

[FloraDoraDolly]

Can't find the Bates special on line anywhere. Anyone know if it's out there somewhere? Also noticed that the new Episodes of "19 Kids" are now missing from Amazon Instant--maybe it's a temporary thing?

Confederate Flag shirt--well with Nathan Bedrod Forrest Bates and Jeb Stuart Bates I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

I don't know what Nathan's middle name is. But Jeb is Jeb Colton Bates, not Jeb Stuart Bates.

[Guest Anonymous]

Hold up! Did I once say I expected "hugz"? Just stating my opinion. Jeez! Talk about someone who can't handle a "dissenting opinion"! WTF?

Francine, you have just found out that most on FJ can't and won't handle a dissenting opinion. What goes on here goes way beyond snarking, and is as hateful as anything I have ever seen on any fundie blog. FJ is always right and everyone else is wrong. There is no room different opinions. Having a different opinion and explaining that opinion will get you labeled sexist, racist, and a troll.

[DarkAnts]

I may be able to watch all of these episodes on Amazon prime in the future. It looks like Discovery struck a deal with them this week. I will have to come back to this thread after watching the episode.

[MalibusLove]

I believe that Tori Amos did a remake of Strange Fruit as well.

[formergothardite]

Francine, you have just found out that most on FJ can't and won't handle a dissenting opinion. What goes on here goes way beyond snarking, and is as hateful as anything I have ever seen on any fundie blog. FJ is always right and everyone else is wrong. There is no room different opinions. Having a different opinion and explaining that opinion will get you labeled sexist, racist, and a troll.

Wait, didn't you finally agree that you were being sexist? Didn't you act thankful that we finally showed you how sexist you were being and you decided to work towards change?

[FrancineFishpaw]

Fuck you. I have many friends Palmetto born and raised and NONE of them voted to have the stars and bars fly over the state capitol when it came to a vote c. 2000. Even my friend who went to the fucking CITADEL was against flying that flag as a symbol of "state's rights"...why? Because as a Southerner, who went to a Southern military college, and through his own research (he's a voracious reader and wicked smart), he was able to discern right from wrong and claims the Palmetto flag as HIS state's flag.

Oh, good luck defending the stars and bars (doesn't deserve capitalization) to those patients. If I was a black patient and found out what you did on your offtime (for the Cause), I'd greet you, but you would run like Chicken fuckin Little.

State's Rights does not fly. Nor should that offensive flag. Period.

So now I'm for "The Cause" because I refuse to apologize for what my ancestors may or may not have done? Funny how my post got turned around. Oh well. I'll just lurk for Duggar info in the future and you can keep your blog neat and tidy the way you like it. And really, fuck you? Come on! Fuck off!

[formergothardite]

It is a forum, not a blog. Post, don't post, your choice. Free speech means that you can defend a flag that was used as a symbol for slavery and that people can disagree with you.

[fakepigtails73]

Thanks everyone for the book titles!!

[fakepigtails73]

Kind of OT, but the Kindle is also good for history stuff published prior to 1928 because it's free...

Really??

I usually go to Gutemberg on my laptop for public domain stuff.

Hum, maybe I'll check those kindle or kodo soon!

I might get the Ken Burns PBS series on civil rights, on dvd.

As to GWTW' I have the movie, never read the book (Scarlett got on my nerves, darn, Ashley never loved you!). Maybe I'll read it after all.

[shesinsane]

So now I'm for "The Cause" because I refuse to apologize for what my ancestors may or may not have done? Funny how my post got turned around. Oh well. I'll just lurk for Duggar info in the future and you can keep your blog neat and tidy the way you like it. And really, fuck you? Come on! Fuck off!

Are you angry about something? :)

The Star and Bars was claimed by racists and white southerners didn't fight it. Because of the lack of inaction on part of white people that weren't actively terrorizing black people (but tolerated other white people terrorizing black people), the Confederate flag no longer symbolizes states rights, it symbolizes the Klan.

As to GWTW' I have the movie, never read the book (Scarlett got on my nerves, darn, Ashley never loved you!). Maybe I'll read it after all.

The book is more complex than the movie (Scarlett is still pretty annoying), but either one is essential to knowing what the average American believes about the Civil War. Kids study American History, but for most they remember the movies they saw about history rather than the actual history.

[formergothardite]

GWTW was way too long of a movie. I got bored half way through.

[ilovetchotchkes]

GWTW was way too long of a movie. I got bored half way through.

I can't watch it, the anachronistic costumes make me twitchy about 20 seconds in. I'm dry heaving by the time they get to the BBQ

[fakepigtails73]

The burning of Atlanta is very well done for a 1938 movie...

Totally, seriously OT, but did "GWTW" and "The wizard of Oz" come out in the same year? If so, it was quite a year for Hollywood films.

[JenniferJuniper]

The burning of Atlanta is very well done for a 1938 movie...

Totally, seriously OT, but did "GWTW" and "The wizard of Oz" come out in the same year? If so, it was quite a year for Hollywood films.

It was an incredible year. Here are the nominees for best picture:

Gone With the Wind

Dark Victory

Goodbye, Mr. Chips

Love Affair

Mr. Smith Goes to Washington

Ninotchka

Of Mice and Men

Stagecoach

The Wizard of Oz

Wuthering Heights

[fakepigtails73]

Incredibile year it was, no kidding!

And then with WWII all Hollywood production went into patriotic propaganda, for the most part...