Sandra Fluke Cartoon

[Anise]

Pregnancy is not a fatal condition normally, and there are other ways to prevent it.

For example?

[She Who Laughs]

Except it's not free. Everyone's going to be forced to buy insurance, whether or not they can afford it. So we're all going to be paying for it through premiums. The government is trying to ensure that we can access what we're all going to be forced to pay for to keep the premiums from being viewed as free money for the insurance companies to pocket. The government is trying to establish the baseline for what we can expect since we're going to be forced to buy it.

This is the part I don't get. Obama says "it will be free" but we all know it won't be free. As you said, we'll pay for it through premiums. And what exactly do people think happens when it costs more for an insurance co to provide coverage? They raise the premiums. The problem lies in the fact that "free" birth control might cost X number of dollars for the insurance co to provide, but there's no guarantee that they'll only raise the premiums to cover that X amount of dollars, they might raise the premiums 3 times X dollars and make some good profit. So in the end, everyone loses. So women could theoretically end up paying more for BC than if they had just had to buy it without insurance.

[debrand]

Pregnancy is too a medical condition. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have needed to see my doctor every month during my pregnancy. For nine months, I took vitamins and became anemic because the fetus needed more nutrients that it took from me.

Jericho, do you want to know why it is unusual for women to die during pregnancy today? BECAUSE TODAY WE TREAT IT LIKE A MEDICAL CONDITION!!

Men can live with age related ED. They won't die. A woman can die from pregnancy.It was not uncommon in times past, for women to die during pregnancy or labor. My grandmother's mother was a midwife. She told my grandmother that a woman was a hair's breadth from death every time she gave birth. That is how dangerous labor was in the early 1900's.

It used to be said that a woman lost a tooth for every pregnancy because of calcium depletion. That is no longer true. How the hell is pregnancy not a medical condition?

Yes, it is natural that a sexually active woman get pregnant. However, all medical conditions are natural, aren't they? Dying from the flu is natural. Having a limp penis because of your age, is natural. Yet we try to prevent those conditions.

I don't see how anyone can say that they love life and still want unwanted babies to be created. Unwanted children are often abused and neglected. Yes, there is adoption but there are plenty of examples of parents not giving up the children that they don't want. Susan Smith could have given her children to their father, instead she drowned them. What about the little girl in Wisconsin recently, who was starved?(can't remember the exact details of the case) So, advocating for birth control is a way to protect children.

edited to add more stuff

[debrand]

This is the part I don't get. Obama says "it will be free" but we all know it won't be free. As you said, we'll pay for it through premiums. And what exactly do people think happens when it costs more for an insurance co to provide coverage? They raise the premiums. The problem lies in the fact that "free" birth control might cost X number of dollars for the insurance co to provide, but there's no guarantee that they'll only raise the premiums to cover that X amount of dollars, they might raise the premiums 3 times X dollars and make some good profit. So in the end, everyone loses. So women could theoretically end up paying more for BC than if they had just had to buy it without insurance.

BC actually saves the insurance company money. It also saves society money. When people have children they can't afford, society has to pay the cost. In the long run, BC pill is a good investment.

[She Who Laughs]

BC actually saves the insurance company money. It also saves society money. When people have children they can't afford, society has to pay the cost. In the long run, BC pill is a good investment.

I agree it saves money. But do you seriously think that the insurance companies won't see this added expense as an opportunity to raise premiums? I would guess there's not an insurance company out there who's going to look at this as an investment or a way to save money. They're going to see it as an opportunity to pass the cost on to the customer through premiums and a way to make even more profit. They are, after all, in business to make money and this is just an opportunity (excuse) to raise premiums more.

[debrand]

I agree it saves money. But do you seriously think that the insurance companies won't see this added expense as an opportunity to raise premiums? I would guess there's not an insurance company out there who's going to look at this as an investment or a way to save money. They're going to see it as an opportunity to pass the cost on to the customer through premiums and a way to make even more profit. They are, after all, in business to make money and this is just an opportunity (excuse) to raise premiums more.

It is a good question and I honestly don't know the answer. However, it is an example as to why profit driven health care isn't the answer.

Correct me if I am wrong. Don't women already pay higher premiums for health care because of the possibility that they will get pregnant?

[debrand]

For example?

I was waiting for Jericho's answer.

[Mama Mia]

The insurance companies use ANY excuse, and no excuse, as a justification to raise premiums.

It is ridiculous to think that including birth control coverage through insurance would be more costly to the insurance companies than coverage for increased rates of pregnancy and childbirth.

Even if every American Married Heterosexual Couple had only one more child than they would have planned - the cost to cover a low-risk pregnancy and normal childbirth would be more than the cost of 20 years of birth control. Do the math.

Screams and worries about the "increased cost of covering birth control" make my brain bleed.

Also, you can not just "shop around" to pick and choose which particular medicine an insurance company will cover. Insurance plans are generally paid for by your employer, who is covering many people. You can't have a plan that doesn't cover, for example, viagra - because your office might have only women -what if you hire a man ? You can't have a plan that doesn't cover high blood pressure meds because everyone in your office is 22 - what if you hire someone in their 50's ? Really the whole idea is ridiculous.

[MonkeyMomma]

I was waiting for Jericho's answer.

Wait, wait, Jericho, lemme guess! Asprin! You see, you put it between your knees and ...

Right? :roll:

[MonkeyMomma]

it is strange they think the government is paying the bc tab. but then again they think this is a christian nation and there is no separation of church and state. the oboma death panels and the whole birther movement.

And let's not forget the whole "Keep yer gubmit hands off my Medicare!" I firmly believe these people do not live in the same reality as the rest of us.

[wtfrenchtoast]

For example?

Keep your slutty whore legs closed of course!

[bananacat]

Aww, it looks like the troll left before I could post cat pictures! Well, here's one anyway: