Bachmann: Slavery's Pro-Family, Make All Porn Illegal

[lilah]

I have read a lot of Ron Paul's books and speeches and totally agree that we have gone FAR from where our Founding Father's want us to be. The states USED to have much more power until a century ago...If you read the constitution, this is the way is was originally intended to be. I think it's hard to wrap our heads around these types of politics because it's actually constitutional, unlike things like income tax which is actually unconstitutional. We are totally on our way to dictatorship and tyranny and we're all just so eager to run down that road. We just vote for whoever the media tells us to and keep digging ourselves into a bigger hole.

You know one thing I always come back to is the idea that founding fathers wanted to protect the US from the "tyranny of the majority" which is why they created the checks and balances between federal and states rights. yet I don't think they could have fathomed how much the state would the the tyranny of its own majority to harm the individual. They left the right of deciding who gets to vote up to the states, and most states decided only white men who owned property could vote. This demonstrated the cronyism and oligarchical nature of local government.

Yeah, a century ago, African Americans lived under vicious Jim Crow laws and women couldn't vote, let alone purchase birth control or have any sort of reproductive choice. So. . . uh, no thanks.

The Bill of Rights guarantees ALL Americans certain rights and freedoms. If left to their own devices, the states have demonstrated time and time again that they would not honor the Bill of Rights in terms of minorities. It would be fantastic if the states could be trusted to recognize and enforce those liberties, but history shows us that time and time again that that has not the case. Do you Paul supporters think that JFK sent the National Guard into Alabama for kicks?

Ron (and Rand Paul) supporters have drunk a very special sort of kool-aid in my opinion. I have HEARD with my own ears Paul declare his non-support of the Civil Rights Act. I have HEARD with my own ears his rabid views. I make political decisions based on what I read and hear directly from the candidates. It is condescending to suggest that anyone who isn't a Paul fan just can't make up their own minds.

And it has nothing to do with these men being evil, as individuals. I have no idea nor do I care. It's that they would be so bad for our country.

I realize it's in vogue to hate the government in some circles, but do Paul supporters really want to go backwards for a century or more?

Slow clap!!!! take a bow!

I am pretty much okay with federal rights over states' rights. I'm not really afraid of big government, we are a nation of 300,000 and I don't think you can have cohesive government at the local level. I do not believe that centralized government = tyranny.

Watching the The gay marriage debate as it winds through state by state reminds me how ludicrous and farcical that we should put our neighbor's rights to a vote. I wonder how long civil rights bill would have taken to pass if it had to be ratified state by state.

"We'll look like the former Soviet Union after the fall of communism. And, as evidenced, a country like that will eventually dissolve into many much smaller independent nations." Don't you think the Soviet Union should've dissolved into many different nations? It was a corrupt, super-inflated government that took rights away from its citizens. Much like our own.

Uh that did happen. Most of central Asia became independent nations post the fall of the USSR Kyrgyzstan, Kazakhstan,Uzbekistan all separated.

[Austin]

Some folks might want to do a brief review of the Articles of Confederation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Articles_of_Confederation

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but the US Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation. For good reason.

[mirele]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but the US Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation. For good reason.

Yup. And the Ron Paul followers would have us marching right back that direction. No Thanks.

Again, anyone who thinks Ron Paul's ideas are smart needs to take up residence in Provo, Utah. Where, unless you're an active Mormon, you too can be a minority whose religious beliefs are alternately snubbed, ignored or (at Christmas Eve mass) patronized. Then you'll understand why the Supreme Court's interpretation of the 14th amendment to apply the 1st amendment to the states is a good thing.

I think the Utah legislature also passed a Paulite favorite law, which allows gold to be used to pay monies owed to the state. Yeah.

[deelaem]

Human rights issues should never be left up to the States. Precedence supports this. Oh, I forgot to say - In my opinion! :roll:

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I think the far right gets way too caught up in the "I don't want Big Government" ideology. Stop and take a good look at what government interference has done for our society, namely minorities, women, and folks with mental and physical handicaps. Then take a look at what government negligence has caused, like oh I don't know, the collapse of our freaking economy for starts. It makes no sense that the same people screaming about not wanting the government in their lives also want to force me to live in a xtian society where people can carry their uzis into the public library, want turn my gay friends into criminals for living a lifestyle that HURTS NO ONE, want to have control over my body, want to trash poor Mother Earth until she withers into nothingness, want to strip away collective bargaining (which is how the fucking middle class was built), yet want to let big corporations run hog wild. If that's your vision of a wonderful, free nation, you can kiss my ass.

It's not about "big" or "little" to me. It's about what works best for our nation. I don't dislike the Pauls because they want small government. I think they're pieces of shit because they know exactly what that will do to our country and its people.

Yeah, a century ago, African Americans lived under vicious Jim Crow laws and women couldn't vote, let alone purchase birth control or have any sort of reproductive choice. So. . . uh, no thanks.

The Bill of Rights guarantees ALL Americans certain rights and freedoms. If left to their own devices, the states have demonstrated time and time again that they would not honor the Bill of Rights in terms of minorities. It would be fantastic if the states could be trusted to recognize and enforce those liberties, but history shows us that time and time again that that has not the case. Do you Paul supporters think that JFK sent the National Guard into Alabama for kicks?

Ron (and Rand Paul) supporters have drunk a very special sort of kool-aid in my opinion. I have HEARD with my own ears Paul declare his non-support of the Civil Rights Act. I have HEARD with my own ears his rabid views. I make political decisions based on what I read and hear directly from the candidates. It is condescending to suggest that anyone who isn't a Paul fan just can't make up their own minds.

And it has nothing to do with these men being evil, as individuals. I have no idea nor do I care. It's that they would be so bad for our country.

I realize it's in vogue to hate the government in some circles, but do Paul supporters really want to go backwards for a century or more?

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[JesusFightClub]

Don't you think the Soviet Union should've dissolved into many different nations? .

No, I don't.

How well have the separate nations done since then?

[Gizmola]

In regards to Ron Paul and his desire to abolish all income taxes and the resulting question about how things are paid for - well, his ilk believe that the military and the three branches of government (legislative, executive, judicial) are the only proper functions of government. Further, they believe that citizens should voluntarily contribute to support the government. ALL taxes are nothing more than theft of private property. Roads, schools (grade, middle, high, university, technical), and everything else the government oversees currently should be private businesses. Does your community want firefighters? Then hope that someone has a private firefighting business and they will charge you for the service. Basically, if you can think of any service you may need, you'll have to go through a private business for it. Monopolies are fine and it's not the government's business to bust monopolies. So if you live in a small town and have only one private electric company that charges $1000 a month for electricity and the rich people can pay enough to make it worthwhile for the company to stay in business then they have no incentive to offer a lower price to poorer people. You're just out of luck. But since no one will be stealing tax money from you you'll now be able to afford these things.

They also believe that the Civil Rights Act is wrong because it's the government legislating private opinion and that it infringes on a private business owner's ability to run his/her business as he/she sees fit. That is, if someone owns a deli and wishes to refuse service to gays, African Americans, people with blue eyes, then that's his/her right to do so. And the way to abolish discriminatory businesses is through the free market. That a business that discriminates won't stay in business long because people will not agree with that philosophy and therefore will refuse to patronize the business and it will go under.

It is useless to point out to these nutjobs that what we currently pay in taxes for the services such as firefighters, police, public schools, roads, etc. is significantly less than they'd have to pay if they were all private. "No, no," they exclaim, "the free market will cause those prices to go down!" Currently I pay about 25% of my income in federal, state and local taxes. That covers everything. Would I still continue to give 25% of my income if I didn't HAVE to? I'd like to say yes but then I think of what happened when my A/C went out. What if that week I needed to hold back some money for a new A/C? Then my car goes out and I need to fix that. And I still need to pay into a private retirement account beyond what I do now because there would be no Social Security. Further, if the free market punishes discriminating businesses how do you explain how businesses flourished when they were able to advertise "No Irish need apply" or refuse counter service at lunch counters to African Americans? Don't even bother attempting to argue with these people and tell them this. They simply brush away your arguments and your questioning and start calling you a parasite, a socialist, a thief and quoting Ayn Rand at you. Sigh.

It scares me that these people are gaining some purchase in politics. I live in KY and the fact that Rand Paul was elected scares the hell out of me. I live in Louisville which is predominantly Democratic. But I am hearing more and more of these Republican/Tea Party scare tactics and the fact that people are listening scares me to death because most of the people I know who are listening are mostly rich, white and wield some power in the community. Don't let anyone tell you that only fringe fruitloops listen to the total wackadoodles. It's people who have Reagan shrines in their homes and who, secretly, hate Obama because he's half-black.

Let's not delude ourselves in thinking that the anti-Obama sentiment is truly because of policy. Where were the Tea Partiers when Bush was spending like there was tomorrow? Where were they when he pushed us into Iraq? Where were they to deride Bush's pandering to Saudi Arabia? But Obama can say something innocuous like "I once met a kind Muslim" and all of a sudden he is a secret Muslim who is trying to push Sharia law on us and who won't stand up for American values. It is pure racism. Part of me wishes Obama would just say "fuck you!" to all of the Tea Partiers and right-wing Republicans and refuse to run and just go off and enjoy his life. He's the freakin' President of the United States and I'm rather sick of these freaks treating him like some uppity house servant who doesn't know his place. Their hatred and their inability to just be honest about the source of their hatred makes me a bit ashamed to be an American sometimes. And I never thought I'd feel like that. But I don't want anyone to associate me with these creeps.

[lilah]

I really don't buy the idea that free market doesn't really magically keep people safe. Look at the melamine scandal in China, 6 kids died and many more needed hospitalization before the issue was addressed. Corporations exist to make profit. Look at Enron, Wall Street, even BP. If they can get away with being negligent, incompetent, lying, cheating and when it all cached up to them they're sorry they caught.

[Gizmola]

Corporations exist to make profit. Look at Enron, Wall Street, even BP. If they can get away with being negligent, incompetent, lying, cheating and when it all cached up to them they're sorry they caught.

According to the fruitloops, the corps that are negligent, incompetent, lie or cheat only do so because the govt controls, regulations and taxes negatively impact them to such a degree that they haven't any choice in order to be profitable. If there were no corporate controls or taxes then companies would have no excuse to be dishonorable and if they are then the free market would weed them out. People would stop buying BP oil if they had a leak and people would only use reputable accounting firms. Plus, there would be more choices of oil companies and accounting firms because it would be easier to go into business and support a business if they didn't have to pay taxes and/or employee benefits or deal with pesky things like sexual harassment lawsuits, worker's comp claims, etc. In the Rand/Ron Paul/Ayn Rand world businessmen are gods and can do no wrong.

[Cassandra]

The only thing I like about Ron Paul is his stance on internet freedom.

[BlackHawk]

AS someone who lives in a state that had a Paul as a senator (We have Rand Paul too, bleh) I do not want him anywhere near the presidency. If Ron can raise a child like Rand, who when he doesn't get his way makes up his own rules (re: Ophthalmologist "board" certification)... I don't think he can run a country.

[ppmath]

In regards to Ron Paul and his desire to abolish all income taxes and the resulting question about how things are paid for - well, his ilk believe that the military and the three branches of government (legislative, executive, judicial) are the only proper functions of government. Further, they believe that citizens should voluntarily contribute to support the government. ALL taxes are nothing more than theft of private property. Roads, schools (grade, middle, high, university, technical), and everything else the government oversees currently should be private businesses. Does your community want firefighters? Then hope that someone has a private firefighting business and they will charge you for the service. Basically, if you can think of any service you may need, you'll have to go through a private business for it. Monopolies are fine and it's not the government's business to bust monopolies. So if you live in a small town and have only one private electric company that charges $1000 a month for electricity and the rich people can pay enough to make it worthwhile for the company to stay in business then they have no incentive to offer a lower price to poorer people. You're just out of luck. But since no one will be stealing tax money from you you'll now be able to afford these things.

They also believe that the Civil Rights Act is wrong because it's the government legislating private opinion and that it infringes on a private business owner's ability to run his/her business as he/she sees fit. That is, if someone owns a deli and wishes to refuse service to gays, African Americans, people with blue eyes, then that's his/her right to do so. And the way to abolish discriminatory businesses is through the free market. That a business that discriminates won't stay in business long because people will not agree with that philosophy and therefore will refuse to patronize the business and it will go under.

It is useless to point out to these nutjobs that what we currently pay in taxes for the services such as firefighters, police, public schools, roads, etc. is significantly less than they'd have to pay if they were all private. "No, no," they exclaim, "the free market will cause those prices to go down!" Currently I pay about 25% of my income in federal, state and local taxes. That covers everything. Would I still continue to give 25% of my income if I didn't HAVE to? I'd like to say yes but then I think of what happened when my A/C went out. What if that week I needed to hold back some money for a new A/C? Then my car goes out and I need to fix that. And I still need to pay into a private retirement account beyond what I do now because there would be no Social Security. Further, if the free market punishes discriminating businesses how do you explain how businesses flourished when they were able to advertise "No Irish need apply" or refuse counter service at lunch counters to African Americans? Don't even bother attempting to argue with these people and tell them this. They simply brush away your arguments and your questioning and start calling you a parasite, a socialist, a thief and quoting Ayn Rand at you. Sigh.

It scares me that these people are gaining some purchase in politics. I live in KY and the fact that Rand Paul was elected scares the hell out of me. I live in Louisville which is predominantly Democratic. But I am hearing more and more of these Republican/Tea Party scare tactics and the fact that people are listening scares me to death because most of the people I know who are listening are mostly rich, white and wield some power in the community. Don't let anyone tell you that only fringe fruitloops listen to the total wackadoodles. It's people who have Reagan shrines in their homes and who, secretly, hate Obama because he's half-black.

Let's not delude ourselves in thinking that the anti-Obama sentiment is truly because of policy. Where were the Tea Partiers when Bush was spending like there was tomorrow? Where were they when he pushed us into Iraq? Where were they to deride Bush's pandering to Saudi Arabia? But Obama can say something innocuous like "I once met a kind Muslim" and all of a sudden he is a secret Muslim who is trying to push Sharia law on us and who won't stand up for American values. It is pure racism. Part of me wishes Obama would just say "fuck you!" to all of the Tea Partiers and right-wing Republicans and refuse to run and just go off and enjoy his life. He's the freakin' President of the United States and I'm rather sick of these freaks treating him like some uppity house servant who doesn't know his place. Their hatred and their inability to just be honest about the source of their hatred makes me a bit ashamed to be an American sometimes. And I never thought I'd feel like that. But I don't want anyone to associate me with these creeps.

Well said, Gizmola! I'd like to add that I find it so crazy that Christian fundamentalists, or anyone who claims to be a Christian, would ascribe to the ideas of Ayn Rand. I'll admit to a phase where I thought her ideas were cool, but I got over it when I realized that she didn't write about real human beings. Her ideas are NOT AT ALL what the Bible, and especially Jesus, would stand for.

[GolightlyGrrl]

I just found this on my Twitter feed:

Armistead Maupin :

I guess if I were a gay man desperate to remain celibate I'd marry Michele Bachmann too.

Armistead Maupin is a wonderful writer who's anthology " Tales of the City" was a well received PBS series in the 80's.

Oooh, I just love Armisted Maupin. I loved both "Tales of the City," both the book and the movie.

And Marcus Bachmann pings my gaydar like a gong. Seriously.