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Principal Slut Shames Pregnant 8th Grader


Alecto

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I was responding to the post by boltingmadonna where she speculated that the girl was PROBABLY raped, because of her age.

Assuming that any teenage girl who has sex must be coerced into doing it or raped is the stupidest form of slut shaming there is.

eta: okay, maybe not THE stupidest - but definitely it just promotes the myth that women are not sexual. I believe the statistics show that more than half of teens are sexually active - are they all coerced ?

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The use of the word MAY and IF get ignored on this board with alarming frequency these days. Also, why is everyone always itching for a fight?

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Maybe people need to stop speculating about rape. It's not something to be tossed around lightly.

Agreed. There is not any mention that she was raped and it is not the point of this article. Going into a debate about rape here takes away from the point. She was suspended over this and then outed in front of the entire school in an attempt to shame her. A father is unmentioned and speculating that it was some adult and she was raped is over the top. Most girls I knew who got pregnant in high school were with other minors as well so until we know any different, I won't assume she was raped.

The girl in this article is 15, not 13 and she would not have been pregnant at 13. It sounds like she has not been pregnant long and is definitely not showing to where her classmates were assuming either. She likely got held back at some point so that's why she is 15. Most eighth graders start at 13 and turn 14 that year. Even an early birthday would not make her 15 in the eighth grade. It's no big deal, but having seen this mentioned I wanted to say that she would have to have been held back or started a year late to be that age.

Sadly, many Native American communities have high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, domestic violence, rampant poverty and high teen pregnancy rates far above the average for the nation. Attempting to shame young girls over it won't help anyone so the principal was out of line in doing so. They need to find other, better ways to deal with this situation, like advocating birth control methods.

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The use of the word MAY and IF get ignored on this board with alarming frequency these days. Also, why is everyone always itching for a fight?

QFT

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I was responding to the post by boltingmadonna where she speculated that the girl was PROBABLY raped, because of her age.

Assuming that any teenage girl who has sex must be coerced into doing it or raped is the stupidest form of slut shaming there is.

eta: okay, maybe not THE stupidest - but definitely it just promotes the myth that women are not sexual. I believe the statistics show that more than half of teens are sexually active - are they all coerced ?

I agree when I read the article there was nothing that indicated it was an older adult or that the girl was raped. I'd think the article would want to include that they slut shamed a RAPED teenager because that makes it even worse. My SIL got pregnant in eighth grade by a boy in her grade so it's completely possible that this was the case in this story, which makes it even worse if they only shamed the girl and knew that the boy was also a student. Not that I think anyone should have been shamed.

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I was responding to the post by boltingmadonna where she speculated that the girl was PROBABLY raped, because of her age.

Assuming that any teenage girl who has sex must be coerced into doing it or raped is the stupidest form of slut shaming there is.

eta: okay, maybe not THE stupidest - but definitely it just promotes the myth that women are not sexual. I believe the statistics show that more than half of teens are sexually active - are they all coerced ?

Actually the statistics suggest that it is not stupid to suspect sexual assault or statutory rape in this case:

-Early initiation of sexual intercourse is frequently linked to previous sexual victimization. About 74 percent of women who had sexual intercourse before age 14 and 60 percent of those who had sex before age 15 report having had sex involuntarily at some point in their lives.1

-Many teen mothers have been victims of sexual violence. In a study of pregnant and parenting teens, nearly 66 percent reported nonvoluntary sexual activity; 44 percent reported having been raped. The average age of first rape was 13.3, with the rapist's average age being 22.6.

-Fathers of babies born to teens are often significantly older than their female partners. It is estimated that, among girls who have given birth to a child by age 15, 39 percent of the fathers are between the ages of 20 and 29.7

-The age gap between teen mothers and their male partners is particularly striking among the youngest adolescents. Among mothers ages 11 to 12, fathers are on average 9.8 years older, and among mothers ages 13 to 14, fathers are on average 4.6 years older.10

These stats, all footnoted with reputable sources, can be found here: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/public ... ?task=view

Of course, these statistics prove nothing about this case, but it is not unreasonable or stupid to suspect a history of sexual assault or an age difference that constitutes statutory rape. It's not some twisted form of slut-shaming or an attack on teen sexuality.

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The use of the word MAY and IF get ignored on this board with alarming frequency these days. Also, why is everyone always itching for a fight?

And my first post is........FULL MOON TONIGHT!

There WILL be a full moon tonight, not may be, and thus more fighting.

As to the issue at hand, my little brother who is is now 46 had a classmate at his 8th grade graduation hand her 3 month old baby to her boyfriend so she could walk across the stage and get her diploma and no one so much as batted an eye. IF we are to compare 2011 New Mexico to 1979 Cow New Hampshire we MAY find NM lacking in maturity.

I send good thoughts to the young lady. She is brave and she has a strong mom!

Hello to all! Long time lurker and password loser!

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AFAIK It hasn't been mentioned. In terms of the age question, if I recall my high school law class correctly, the age of consent is 14 IF the other party is also a minor. But that's here in Canada. I'm not sure what the restrictions are in various states.

The age of consent in Canada was raised to 16 unless the person is in a position of authority or trust, prostitution and pornography, than its 18 or for prostitution, pornography. There are also still child exploitation laws in effect that were not repealed when they raised the age of consent that apply to all persons under 18 (such as when a relationship is developed over the internet). There are also close in age exceptions for youth.

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What the school official did was wrong, plain and simple. They should be removed from their office. It is beyond bullying. At my old high school, the principal was removed two years ago for reaming a student out in a crowded hallway because of what she was wearing. If this had happened where i live, the school official would be out, or restricted to administrative board offices only.

I worked for a summer at an organization that provided programs for people in an underprivileged area. One of our leaders-in-training for the camp, the cream of the crop of the local kids, found out she was pregnant at 12 years old one week into the program. Only those who needed to know for the child's safety was told. It was consider confidential information and the girl was provided with counselling and I thinks she also got a new social worker who was more experienced with pregnant young teens.

Everything about shaming a pregnant teen is wrong. There are better ways to prevent teen pregnancy than this, like education. The school needs to look at its own policies and sexual education and leave the poor girl alone except to get her whatever the help she needs. Or report the father of the child to the police if warranted based on his age and relationship to the girl.

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The age of consent in Canada was raised to 16 unless the person is in a position of authority or trust, prostitution and pornography, than its 18 or for prostitution, pornography. There are also still child exploitation laws in effect that were not repealed when they raised the age of consent that apply to all persons under 18 (such as when a relationship is developed over the internet). There are also close in age exceptions for youth.

It's also 18 for anal sex. Except for that I am happy with Canada's age of consent laws. Then again I am a big fan of close in age exemption. It's bullshit to charge someone with rape because the other person is two months younger...

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However the girl was impregnated, she needs compassion and help. If she plans to raise the child, she needs daycare. Not shaming.

Adults get pregnant while using birth control responsibly and sometimes so do teens. There should be no shame in having sex nor in an unplanned pregnancy. Once a young person is pregnant, the school should be moving the heavens if necessary to ensure that the parents can receive an education regardless of their choices. That includes creating a supportive environment.

There was a girl at my high school who got pregnant at 13, in 7th grade. She graduated on time, with her four or five year old at the ceremony, and went on to college. Last I heard she was happily married and a productive taxpayer, all because our school district had a free daycare and programs helping young mothers.

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It's also 18 for anal sex. Except for that I am happy with Canada's age of consent laws. Then again I am a big fan of close in age exemption. It's bullshit to charge someone with rape because the other person is two months younger...

That is exactly why they have the close in age exceptions for youth. They didn't want to make someone a criminal just because they had a birthday.

Quebec, Ontario and Alberta have ruled the section of the Criminal Code that provides the age of consent to be 18 for anal sex to be unconstitutional and I don't think it will stand against a constitutional challenge at a higher court or the other provinces. I think that's the reason why the Crown didn't appeal the unconstitutional rulingl, they don't want to defend it. It seems to be one of the antiquated provisions in the Criminal Code, like the witchcraft one, that is rarely, if ever, but hasn't been repealed for a variety of reasons, including no one wants to bother with it. Most people don't know its there and it isn't used so there is little political will to change it.

But I think it should be taken out.

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However the girl was impregnated, she needs compassion and help. If she plans to raise the child, she needs daycare. Not shaming.

Adults get pregnant while using birth control responsibly and sometimes so do teens. There should be no shame in having sex nor in an unplanned pregnancy. Once a young person is pregnant, the school should be moving the heavens if necessary to ensure that the parents can receive an education regardless of their choices. That includes creating a supportive environment.

There was a girl at my high school who got pregnant at 13, in 7th grade. She graduated on time, with her four or five year old at the ceremony, and went on to college. Last I heard she was happily married and a productive taxpayer, all because our school district had a free daycare and programs helping young mothers.

^ This. She already has way too much on her plate, shaming her isn't going to help anyone. She needs a lot of help and real support.

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However the girl was impregnated, she needs compassion and help. If she plans to raise the child, she needs daycare. Not shaming.

Adults get pregnant while using birth control responsibly and sometimes so do teens. There should be no shame in having sex nor in an unplanned pregnancy. Once a young person is pregnant, the school should be moving the heavens if necessary to ensure that the parents can receive an education regardless of their choices. That includes creating a supportive environment.

There was a girl at my high school who got pregnant at 13, in 7th grade. She graduated on time, with her four or five year old at the ceremony, and went on to college. Last I heard she was happily married and a productive taxpayer, all because our school district had a free daycare and programs helping young mothers.

QFT.

I agree completely. This school needs to adapt to the girl, not kick her out and shame her. The girl needs all the help she can get. Being a young teen is scary and confusing. Your body and brain is still changing all the time and the added stress of being pregnant just compounds the situation. I really feel for that girl. The adults need to get over their prejudices and help her. They are teachers and should set an example for their students for good behaviour, which includes compassion and understanding. The girl has a right to a quality education, despite being pregnant.

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FloraPoste said:

These stats, all footnoted with reputable sources, can be found here: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/public ... ?task=view

Thanks. Those were the statistics I had in mind when I originally commented. I didn't mean to derail--but I am disturbed by ignorance about rape, especially the idea that some kinds of rape aren't really rape. I think it's important to remember the kinds of pressure that are put on girls in many situations. To me, it's all part of the same ideas that lead to slut-shaming.

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Indian boarding schools are hell holes. I think I have my letter writing campaign for next week.

More on the schools.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor ... d=16516865

So I agree that the historic Indian schools were like the one'si described in the NPR story,my grandmother and mother both attended one, it was a government funded school run by the Catholic church ( fun fact, back in the day when a nun went crazy or a parish priest liked the alter boys a little too much, the church would assign them to an Indian school, since the children and the parents had no way to complain. I'm convinced one of the reasons the child abuse in the church escalated from the 1960's onward is because the church had fewer places to stash the pedophiles)

Anyway....the structure of the old boarding schools changed in the 60's, and the administration was split between the BIA and the trbes themselves. Schools became less centralized, included day schools, and became more like local public schools with tribal school boards and federal funding. This particular school was a day and boarding school run in conjunction with the Navajo tribal government, and I don't believe this particular student was a boarder. I 'm not condoning this in anyway, and these schools definitely have their problems, including chronic underfunding and lack competent teachers ( or admin, in this case), but this incident is not in the same league as the systemic violence, emotional abuse, and cultural reprograming that went on in the really bad old days. Also, I am pretty sure FERPA would not apply here, because schools required to comply with FERPA receive funding from certain programs. My understanding is that BIA schools have different funding mechanisms.

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meda - do you know if the officials at BIA schools have to conform to the same laws regarding discrimination ? I know that the systems are very different when it comes to foster care, welfare, etc .. but I don't know if the schools have the same leeway ? Do you know if the tribal schools have daycare for teen parents ?

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meda - do you know if the officials at BIA schools have to conform to the same laws regarding discrimination ? I know that the systems are very different when it comes to foster care, welfare, etc .. but I don't know if the schools have the same leeway ? Do you know if the tribal schools have daycare for teen parents ?

Federally recognized Indian tribes, which the Navajo are, are not subject to the ADA or the Civil Rights Act, I believe they are not subject to federal pregnancy discrimination laws either. Because they are a domestic sovereign nation, state discrimination law would not apply. My experience with tribal courts and government is limited to a different Indian nation, so I cannot speak with any authority about the laws of the Navajo nation. They are an older, relatively wealthy nation with a pretty extensive legal system, so they may have adopted some anti discrimination laws themselves. The BIA is a unique federal agency who would not be subject to tribal law, and I don't know how federal discrimination law would apply to a BIA school operating on tribal land. This school is run jointly by the BIA and the Navajo, so I would be very interested in where the complaint was filed and what law was invoked. Regarding daycare for students at tribal schools, some would, some won't, it would depend on the ability of the tribe to fund it and the population it could serve. I have seen it in a few urban schools that serve a high Indian population.

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Bringing up the consent issue is perfect legitimate.

This is a young girl who is under the age of consent. The law has an exemption if both parties are close in age, so that we don't end up criminalizing situations where there is no coercion or difference in power, but that doesn't mean that a young girl has the same ability to make an informed, rational decision about sexual activity that an adult has.

For that reason, I consider it even MORE outrageous to shame her. Raising teens isn't always easy, but there is a reason that they are not yet capable of making adult decisions. Where were the adults in her life? If you truly feel the need to shame anyone (and I don't really see the need), then look to the people who should have been supervising her, should have been looking out for her interests, should have been providing her with the comprehensive sex education that she clearly needed, and should have been providing for her health needs.

I'm not going to say that there is nothing wrong with underage sex. I will say that BECAUSE of the fact that teenagers are capable of sex, are very capable of getting pregnant, have hormones in overdrive and have not yet fully developed the frontal cortex of their brains which means that they are more prone to take risks, they need the adults in their lives to acknowledge that they are sexual beings and to respond appropriately so that they are less likely to end up pregnant or with a disease.

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My point is that, as far as we know, the ONLY people who should be "shamed" in this situation are the school authorities who humiliated and punished this girl.

By turning it into a question of age of consent, age of the father, parent's role etc etc ... you are taking away from the clearly horrible behavior of the school staff. It was horrible on their part whether she was forcibly raped at gunpoint, or had a twenty year old boyfriend, was molested by her preacher, had a long-term same-age boyfriend, a one-time fling with a crush or hooked up with 3 of her classmates in one night -- none of that is relevant to the horrible behavior of these so called educators whose JOB is to set a good example to the students.

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The behavioral of the school officials was shameful. They had absolutely no excuse to treat her like that, regardless of the circumstances.

What makes it even MORE horrible, though, is that (1) she was so young, (2) she was a boarding student and (3) officials apparently didn't even consider the question of how she got pregnant prior to the illegal expulsion attempt.

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The behavioral of the school officials was shameful. They had absolutely no excuse to treat her like that, regardless of the circumstances.

What makes it even MORE horrible, though, is that (1) she was so young, (2) she was a boarding student and (3) officials apparently didn't even consider the question of how she got pregnant prior to the illegal expulsion attempt.

Honestly, mandated reporter training told us that pregnancy under age 11 (or 14, depending on which version you read) is a red flag for abuse.

Not that there's certainly abuse, but it's a CPS-call-worthy warning.

That adds to the anger at the shaming.

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I remember a sixth grader getting pregnant at my school. The funny thing is that I can't remember what happened to her, she sort of disappeared. This was back in the late eighties so maybe she went away to a pregnant teen center. I don't remember that the school made a big deal of it. The highschool I attended had a special daycare and preschool program from the children of teens, special parenting support groups, parenting classes, college prep and finance help and money magagement classes they offered to teen parents. The program was newly instituted and was considered radical and opponents were SURE that teen pregnancy rates would increase. Instead, teen pregnancy rates went down as the struggles of teen parents became more visable adn those who did become pregnant were able to successfully finish school and go on to college. It also allowed a very open dialogue on my campus about sex and birth control. We had condoms in both the boys and girls bathroom. Alas, in the 2000s I heard the program was seriously scaled back and the easy access to condoms vanished.

I am sure this girl will win her suit. Those adults should be utterly ashamed of themselves and as part of their judgment I think I would be asking that all of them stand up in front of the entire school and eat crow.

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