CJ Mahaney takes "leave of absence"

[hoipolloi]

Did a search & didn't see this anywhere here at FJ. Thought it might be of interest, particularly if we have SGM/former SGM folks here.

 

CJ Mahaney is stepping aside for a season of self-reflection & repentance: sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/cj-mahaney/post/2011/07/06/Why-Im-taking-a-leave-of-absence.aspx

 

The SGM board agrees he should do this: sovereigngraceministries.org/blogs/sgm/post/A-note-on-CJ-Mahaneys-leave-of-absence.aspx

 

Wiki-leaks documents on what might be really going on: http://www.scribd.com/sgmwikileaks

[Artemis]

I read some of the documents.

What a self-centred, self-important, self-righteous, navel-gazing, anal set of idiots.

I thought the purpose of a church was to:

help the needy

console the distressed

show love and care to all

Instead of pratting around with their little in-fights, why don't they get off their lazy backsides and get on with God's work?

They whinge like nine year olds in a playground fight - except that I've seen more honesty and integrity in nine year olds.

They make Christianity stink in the nostrils of any thinking human being.

ETA: OMG when did I turn into Bill Gothard?

[hoipolloi]

Methinks there's a whole lot of butt-covering going on.

The phrase "honor among thieves" comes to mind as well.

[Burris]

I just spent the last hour trying to familiarize myself with the situation through Hoipolloi's link. The documents are all so loaded down with clunky jargon that it's difficult to get a complete picture of just what happened.

Backstabbing and other such fuckery is pretty much inevitable in any organization large enough and well-established enough. It's a part of our depraved natures that even the best people can turn sour in the absence of sufficient checks and balances.

It sounds like that is what happened with Mahaney and a few of his underlings, who were involved in a rather messy slander-fight with another member of their own leadership team.

ETA: I've just spent a lot more time in the documents, and now the situation makes sense. It's pretty much what I thought it was.

I can't help but think life would have been so much easier for both Detwiler and his opponents (including Mahaney) if they had all been permitted to speak freely rather than having to bury their observations under layers of jargon and false nicety.

[Caxpax]

Innnnnnteresting. When my son is down for a nap I'll have to take a look through those documents.

I posted on the old board about my BIL and SIL starting the process to join an SGM church. My hubs and i freaked and approached them about our concerns with SGM- I can't remember if i updated or not but they have left the church- my BIL was disturbed by a lot of what he was seeing, but was going to just roll with it because his wife liked the church so much. His instincts, plus our freak-out, plus his conversations with others about some of the church's stances on things (people completely unfamiliar with SGM told him it sounded like a cult!!) led him to re-think it and they've since left the church and are starting the church hunt again. HUGE sigh of relief over here.

[Austin]

I'm glad your BIL & SIL didn't end up there, caxpax.

I've been following two blogs of former SGMers for a couple of years, and there are some serious systemic issues with the leadership. Both address this new development pretty well in a little more succinct way:

http://sgmsurvivors.com/

http://sgmrefuge.com/

ETA: When I first read Mahaney's letter, and never having been more than a casual observer of SGM on the webz, I thought, "Well, that actually sounds like a good first step. . ." and all that. However, going over to the survivors' site, it's clear from the comments that they aren't buying it for the most part and I think that's interesting, as they've been there and lived it.

[hoipolloi]

Agree with peoples' impressions of the "leave."

I've also been following the SGM Survivors & SGM Refuge blogs for a while, and they've discussed considerably more serious issues than pastors' quarrels & bickering. These issues include at least a couple of cases of child molestation, the alleged perpetrators and their victims being minor children of SGM families. In the cases discussed on these blogs (as presented by parents of the victims), the alleged perpetrators were never brought to account for their alleged actions and in fact were actively shielded by SGM's pastoral staff at various locations. Then, there are a number of personal accounts of having to endure things like spousal abuse (namely, the wife as victim of the husband's abuse) because SGM pastors counsel women to stay in such marriages. Perhaps not coincidentally, SGM also endorses child-beating methods of child-rearing, similar to the Pearls' filth.

[Austin]

Agree with peoples' impressions of the "leave."

I've also been following the SGM Survivors & SGM Refuge blogs for a while, and they've discussed considerably more serious issues than pastors' quarrels & bickering. These issues include at least a couple of cases of child molestation, the alleged perpetrators and their victims being minor children of SGM families. In the cases discussed on these blogs (as presented by parents of the victims), the alleged perpetrators were never brought to account for their alleged actions and in fact were actively shielded by SGM's pastoral staff at various locations. Then, there are a number of personal accounts of having to endure things like spousal abuse (namely, the wife as victim of the husband's abuse) because SGM pastors counsel women to stay in such marriages. Perhaps not coincidentally, SGM also endorses child-beating methods of child-rearing, similar to the Pearls' filth.

I've read through about the first 35 pages of document #1 (just shoot me now!) and all it seems to be is a bunch of bickering and internecine strife, mainly over what an arrogant asshat Mahaney seems to be. Except that they all seem to have plenty of self-righteous asshatiness in all of them.

As I was reading, I just found myself thinking, "You dudes need to go get real jobs. . . is someone (like your congregations) really paying you to produce page after page of this bullshit?"

[Kaylee]

They did an article on this at wartburgwatch.com and say they're going to cover it more:

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/07/07/breaking-news-cj-mahaney-the-trendy-calvinista-temporarily-steps-down-to-deal-with-sin/

[Kitten]

I'm a heathen, but I thought one of the main differences between Catholics and Protestants was the privacy of confession. I was taught that for a Protestant, confession of sins was purely between a person and God, with no intermediaries.

At least the Catholics confess only to priests, who are bound by the confessional to keep their confidence. These fundies seem OBSESSED with public confession and confrontation.

What comes to mind when I read what little I was able to stomach of this drivel was that fundies are so driven/excited by shame and humiliation - you MUST have something to confess, or there's something wrong with you, women must dress THIS way, or they deserve whatever mistreatment they get (and hey, if you dress correctly and STILL get mistreated, that's just because you're a nasty shameful woman), you can't touch/kiss/front hug a person of the opposite sex before marriage or else you'll be DEFILED FOREVER and unworthy of love...yuck.

[Austin]

I'm a heathen, but I thought one of the main differences between Catholics and Protestants was the privacy of confession. I was taught that for a Protestant, confession of sins was purely between a person and God, with no intermediaries.

At least the Catholics confess only to priests, who are bound by the confessional to keep their confidence. These fundies seem OBSESSED with public confession and confrontation.

What comes to mind when I read what little I was able to stomach of this drivel was that fundies are so driven/excited by shame and humiliation - you MUST have something to confess, or there's something wrong with you, women must dress THIS way, or they deserve whatever mistreatment they get (and hey, if you dress correctly and STILL get mistreated, that's just because you're a nasty shameful woman), you can't touch/kiss/front hug a person of the opposite sex before marriage or else you'll be DEFILED FOREVER and unworthy of love...yuck.

I was struck by this, as well. There is a verse in scripture that exhorts us to confess our sins to one another, but I was always taught that it was coming more from a place of admitting when you are wrong. These SGM church leaders are complaining that Mahaney hasn't confessed sin in his marriage (how do they know he has any?) or lust (again, is there some sort of evidence beyond assumption that he has issues with lust) and all sorts of other sins of a more personal nature.

This leads me to believe, as I've read so much at SGMSurvivors and SGMRefuge that this group uses this theology (to confess everything to each other or to church leadership) as a way to butt their noses into peoples' lives in ways that are inappropriate and uninvited. They attempt to control very personal aspects of their members' lives. This is a huge blinking danger sign in religious groups, and one of the hallmarks of a cult.

Not sticking up for Mahaney here, as I think he is a serious asshole (like Piper, Driscoll, and the rest of the RBDs), but it was just something that caught my eye, too. Over and over again.

Oh, how the mighty fall. Please let it be Driscoll next!

[Guest Anonymous]

Oh, how the mighty fall. Please let it be Driscoll next!

From your lips (typing fingers) to the ears (eyeballs) of fate! I truly despise that man. Just seeing his smarmy face fills me with white hot rage - not to mention hearing his voice.

[PennySycamore]

I was struck by this, as well. There is a verse in scripture that exhorts us to confess our sins to one another, but I was always taught that it was coming more from a place of admitting when you are wrong. These SGM church leaders are complaining that Mahaney hasn't confessed sin in his marriage (how do they know he has any?) or lust (again, is there some sort of evidence beyond assumption that he has issues with lust) and all sorts of other sins of a more personal nature.

This leads me to believe, as I've read so much at SGMSurvivors and SGMRefuge that this group uses this theology (to confess everything to each other or to church leadership) as a way to butt their noses into peoples' lives in ways that are inappropriate and uninvited. They attempt to control very personal aspects of their members' lives. This is a huge blinking danger sign in religious groups, and one of the hallmarks of a cult.

Not sticking up for Mahaney here, as I think he is a serious asshole (like Piper, Driscoll, and the rest of the RBDs), but it was just something that caught my eye, too. Over and over again.

Oh, how the mighty fall. Please let it be Driscoll next!

CJ Mahaney was brought up Catholic as was Larry Tomczak who cofounded SGM with Mahaney. I don't know how much that might factor into all this, though.

I hadn't thought of CJ Mahaney in years, but some friends of mine about 35 years ago really liked to listen to Mahaney's teachings.

[gracegrace]

I live near a large SGM church and I know they're big on homeschooling and on kids (daughters at least) living at home while going to college, so I checked these links out yesterday. My main reaction is "wow. ick. wow." The SGM leadership appears to spend HUGE amounts of time in passive-aggressive picking at each other's sins. Except that no one is supposed to really pick at the Big Guy. With all the confessing going on, and no seal of the confessional, if you start questioning Big Guy there's a possibility of blackmail.

Gnat. Camel. Dish. Filthy. Speck. Plank.

[Kaylee]

Here's more on Mahaney from Wartburg Watch :

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2011/07/08/c-j-mahaney%E2%80%99s-temporary-resignation-and-sovereign-grace-ministries-shades-of-john-piper/

I thought this summed up the problems with many fundie churches/pastors/"leaders":

Over time, we have boiled down the reasons for this abuse.

1. A belief that all men are so sin infected that they must be led by pastors who somehow get a pass on this sin infection. These pastors then have the honor to tell everyone else what is wrong with them. The favor cannot be returned...

2. A rigid, hyper-authoritarian, arrogant, self-absorbed leadership structure that uses heavy-handed methods for dealing with people.

[clownprincess]

Issue is blowing up, apparently: sgmsurvivors.com

The newly-unmoderated (well, last time I checked, anyway) comments section of Josh Harris' blog post on Mahaney's leave of absence deserves a look too: http://www.joshharrisdotcom/2011/07/why ... _a_lea.php

[Shoobydoo]

Gnat. Camel. Dish. Filthy. Speck. Plank.

Off topic, but can you explain these phrases please? I get the speck/plank one, but I'm not familiar with the other two...

[Brainsample]

I have trouble with the sugary language that they use and the unwritten rule in SGM that everyone has to fall all over everyone feigning niceness and humility. When I read Mahaney's letter and the one from the SGM Board, they use their developed politically correct speech to state things. There is never any conflict - just sin. Conflicts are just opportunities to love. We want to resolve this problem, but we're not going to call it a problem or say that we're angry, we're going to restate it in some way that does not sound offensive. And we'll say that we're being accountable, but everyone knows that no one is going to do the right thing that needs to be done to fix whatever it is, but we'll do something to make it look like we made an effort.

It all reminds me of that language from Hamlet when Polonius says, "'Tis oft' proved -- that with devotion's visage and pious action, we do sugar over the devil himself." That's what SGM communication is all about, but the "devil" is still under all that sugar and behind the masks of devotion.

So with that in mind, I read those letters. Someone was determined to get Mahaney -- at least that's what it sounds like. And that stuff leaked to wikileaks?

edited to fix Hamlet originally listed as Henry V -- Kenneth Braughnah on the brain or something, I guess.

[Burris]

Off topic, but can you explain these phrases please? I get the speck/plank one, but I'm not familiar with the other two...

Matthew 23:24-25

“You blind guides, straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel! Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.â€