"A Sea of BEAUTIFUL Confederate Flags.." Friends of Duggars

[Constance Vigilance]

Today, I think most of the resentment comes from the way working class and poor Southerners are portrayed in the media/books/movies. We are portrayed as ass backwards, uneducated, stupid, ignorant, redneck hillbillies. And I have to say I agree with my fellow Southerners to an extent. It's almost biased in way. I mean do you see any other region of the country portrayed in a derogatory as often as the South is?

"People are mean about us in the media, so let's think fondly of the good old days when you could own people"?

Not seeing any reasonable connection.

[Guest Anonymous]

My last post has nothing to do with the Confederate Flag, nationalism, or racism. It was an explanation as to why Southerners have resentment. It's not an excuse, and it's not looking back at the good old days. It's a way of fighting back. I don't condone any of this, I'm just stating what I observe.

[synchroswimr]

Today, I think most of the resentment comes from the way working class and poor Southerners are portrayed in the media/books/movies. We are portrayed as ass backwards, uneducated, stupid, ignorant, redneck hillbillies. And I have to say I agree with my fellow Southerners to an extent. It's almost biased in way. I mean do you see any other region of the country portrayed in a derogatory as often as the South is?

I agree that people from this region are portrayed in that manner. And it isn't fair. But how does that equate with romanticising the Civil War and longing for the "good old days?"

[gilora]

Pardon my ignorance, but how are these people connected to the Duggars? If the Duggars didn't particpate in the Kendall Konfederacy Kraziness is it really fair to associate them with this "event" and put their name in the thread title?

I can't believe I just defended them. I'm off to hit myself with plumbing line.

[BayLee_10]

Today, I think most of the resentment comes from the way working class and poor Southerners are portrayed in the media/books/movies. We are portrayed as ass backwards, uneducated, stupid, ignorant, redneck hillbillies. And I have to say I agree with my fellow Southerners to an extent. It's almost biased in way. I mean do you see any other region of the country portrayed in a derogatory as often as the South is?

I'm from central NY where we have our share of rednecks, whom we call 'locals' if one is lucky enough to not have been born and schooled here. Still, everyone thinks of NYers as NYC, where we are depicted as unfriendly versions of 'The Long Island Medium.' Every single section of the country has it's stereotypes. How about the NW tree hugger, going green on everything, Starbucks coffee drinking image, or the Midwestern 'Hayseeds'. C'mon, y'all are way too sensitive.

[meda]

Today, I think most of the resentment comes from the way working class and poor Southerners are portrayed in the media/books/movies. We are portrayed as ass backwards, uneducated, stupid, ignorant, redneck hillbillies. And I have to say I agree with my fellow Southerners to an extent. It's almost biased in way. I mean do you see any other region of the country portrayed in a derogatory as often as the South is?

The portrayal might not be so derogatory if large swaths of the south were not so fucking proud of being uneducated, ignorant, ass backward hillbillies. I am of mixed race and "pass" as white. The shit people felt they could say to me, whom they saw as another white person, about black and brown people during the 4 years I worked in the South (WV, Miss, SC and Texas, it was a broad sample) was shocking. It was also shocking the things that people said to me because I have an Irish, and therefore "Catholic" last name. This was from 1998-2002, not the 1960's.

Racism is every where, not just in the South, but other parts of the country have at least acknowledged and apologized for things like institutional segregation, race violence and Klan marches down main street. You all are still flying the confederate flag at state capitals, teach about "the War of Northern Aggression" in your public schools, and have communities that actively celebrate the confederacy. I also noticed something almost akin to holocaust denial when the civil rights movement was mentioned. I was earnestly told more than once that most lynchings never happened and were made up, most Blacks had actually liked segregation, and that the whole thing was a conspiracy between jews, northern black radicals, and that mean president Johnson to destroy southern culture. I mean really, WTF?

Lest you think I am some kind of northern elitist, my father's family proudly qualifies as ignorant hillbilly (yes, we have rural poor people in the Northeast). One of the very few stories I ever heard about my grandfather that I could be proud of was about the time during the late 1930's when some men came to his northern mill town looking to start a Klan chapter. The city fathers thought it was a good idea, since it would keep the Catholics and the few black workers in line. My grandfather, along with other white men, black men, and Indian men, attacked and drove the Klan organizers out of town. Even my ignorant, uneducated, mean bastard grandfather recognized race baiting bullshit when he saw it.

[PBrooke]

The portrayal might not be so derogatory if large swaths of the south were not so fucking proud of being uneducated, ignorant, ass backward hillbillies. I am of mixed race and "pass" as white. The shit people felt they could say to me, whom they saw as another white person, about black and brown people during the 4 years I worked in the South (WV, Miss, SC and Texas, it was a broad sample) was shocking. It was also shocking the things that people said to me because I have an Irish, and therefore "Catholic" last name. This was from 1998-2002, not the 1960's.

Racism is every where, not just in the South, but other parts of the country have at least acknowledged and apologized for things like institutional segregation, race violence and Klan marches down main street. You all are still flying the confederate flag at state capitals, teach about "the War of Northern Aggression" in your public schools, and have communities that actively celebrate the confederacy. I also noticed something almost akin to holocaust denial when the civil rights movement was mentioned. I was earnestly told more than once that most lynchings never happened and were made up, most Blacks had actually liked segregation, and that the whole thing was a conspiracy between jews, northern black radicals, and that mean president Johnson to destroy southern culture. I mean really, WTF?

I am not going to go down this particular rabbit hole at the moment, but there's a whole big topic about government-mandated desegregation in the South and how, while it can make things 'uncomfortable,' it actually sort of forces a dialogue - as compared to the North, where de facto segregation was (and is) allowed to run rampant. All of the most vilely racist people I've ever met lived in the North... And with the South, sure, there are crackpot deniers, but most schoolbooks (at least when I was in school) still address the injustices of the times in a straightforward, unapologetic fashion. However, it's not uncommon for kids to think that lynchings, etc ONLY happened in the South.

[Guest Anonymous]

Today, I think most of the resentment comes from the way working class and poor Southerners are portrayed in the media/books/movies. We are portrayed as ass backwards, uneducated, stupid, ignorant, redneck hillbillies. And I have to say I agree with my fellow Southerners to an extent. It's almost biased in way. I mean do you see any other region of the country portrayed in a derogatory as often as the South is?

As a life-long Southerner, born and raised (on a farm, even) I completely disagree. There are definitely negative portrayals of Southerners in the media, but they are there about pretty much everyone else too. Californians are granola crunching hippies, Midwesterners are corn fed bumpkins, people from Boston are Irish Catholic thugs, and let's just pause a moment to think about the stereotypes about people from New Jersey. Yeah. I do see other regions of the country portrayed just as negatively.

Why in the world do you think that a negative media portrayal is an excuse or a license to wave around a flag that is so hurtful to other people? Not to mention that it doesn't make any sense. The media thinks we're ignorant and racist?!? Grrr, that makes us angry. We'll show them we're not like that - by acting even more ignorant and racist. How is that a winning strategy?

[meda]

I am not going to go down this particular rabbit hole at the moment, but there's a whole big topic about government-mandated desegregation in the South and how, while it can make things 'uncomfortable,' it actually sort of forces a dialogue - as compared to the North, where de facto segregation was (and is) allowed to run rampant. All of the most vilely racist people I've ever met lived in the North... And with the South, sure, there are crackpot deniers, but most schoolbooks (at least when I was in school) still address the injustices of the times in a straightforward, unapologetic fashion. However, it's not uncommon for kids to think that lynchings, etc ONLY happened in the South.

Which is great if that was your experience, my experience was that the most vile racism and anti Catholic bigotry I encountered was in the South. As I mentioned in my post, I have certainly heard racist comments and observed racism in the north; what I never heard, except in the South, was this sort of smug, genteel, self congratulatory pride about racism, combined with confederate apologetics. In other parts of the country, the racists I've encountered at least have enough self awareness to realize that overt expressions of blatant racism will at least earn them a side eye from others.

[PBrooke]

Which is great if that was your experience, my experience was that the most vile racism and anti Catholic bigotry I encountered was in the South. As I mentioned in my post, I have certainly heard racist comments and observed racism in the north; what I never heard, except in the South, was this sort of smug, genteel, self congratulatory pride about racism, combined with confederate apologetics. In other parts of the country, the racists I've encountered at least have enough self awareness to realize that overt expressions of blatant racism will at least earn them a side eye from others.

Meh, perhaps we're talking about different areas, different circumstances. When I think of racial tension in the South that I've experienced, 'genteel' isn't the word that comes to mind - I'm not talking about some old ladies on a porch in South Carolina. I'm talking cities where people are living side by side, violence is not a distant memory, and racism is something that's regularly called out.

In contrast, I've seen people in small-town (all-white) Minnesota or Wisconsin use "the n-word" with regularity and not the slightest worry that they'll be given the side-eye - and they won't. So perhaps it's when you feel untouchable that ignorance and hatred breed in comfort.

[meda]

I would agree with you that some Southern cities do a much better job with race relations than some Northern cities that never had to acknowledge race in the same way. I was speaking mostly about rural white southerners, in response to geniebell's post about southern stereotypes. My "genteel" comment comes from my interactions with middle class rural whites (school teachers, accountant types), who enjoyed making all sorts of 'genteel" as opposed to F-ing N****r comments. I have not been to small town Minnesota or Wisconsin, so I can't speak to the racism, and I'm certainly not denying your experiences. I notice you have not commented on my experience with religious bigotry. Did the mid west whites you interacted with have the same anti catholic bias that I've heard from southerners?

[PBrooke]

I don't know that I can speak to that - for one, I was personally raised entirely secular and it's just not something I tend to notice one way or another. For another, I wasn't in the Midwest as long as I was in the South (but the blatant racism obviously stood out). Furthermore, I haven't experienced much of an anti-Catholic bias in the South. The only churches I ever attended in the South were Catholic ones; the biggest church that people in my high school attended was a Catholic one, and the youth group was huge (nearly everyone I knew was involved in a musical every summer, even those who weren't Catholic). A relative by marriage who was raised in Mississippi was taught by nuns, which was apparently where - well, probably the white folk - sent their kids if they didn't want to send them to the public school. Friends from New Orleans have told me the Catholic Church is pretty big there.

The one example in the South I CAN think of is a relative from Alabama who told me a little girl told her (when she was about 12) that she was going to Hell for being a Catholic. The little girl was standing outside a grocery store with her parents, handing out pamphlets and trying to "save" people, so I suppose I've always thought of that experience as sort of a fundie outlier. Now, are super-Baptist/fundie churches more likely in the South? Absolutely. But have I ever experienced any anti-Catholic bias from "normal" people in places of work, or school, or on the street, that I have ever noticed (though admittedly I'm not sensitive to it)? Nope.

[onlyorganic]

Racism is everywhere, not just the south. I didn't see the original post, but I'm safely assuming that it came from the same mindset of Addie M's "Beautiful, beautiful flag." Ignorance is everywhere too. I think so many of the fundies are ignorant because they don't avail themselves of outside sources for learning, being home-taught and socializing in the same tiny circle of like-minded people. They probably assume the Confederate flag is a symbol of the gorgeous south with its plantations and belles. I'm glad the post is gone but I see so much close-mindedness in that blog without it even being up. I don't expect much from people who do karate in skirts and learn haircutting as a craft to "benefit their families" (WTF?).

Personally, I'd like to point out that it sickens me when some bloggers have friends whose ethnicity is different and they make a point of showing it "Ohhhh, _____, thank you for sharing stories of your exotic homeland with us, you are a blessing." They get extra "wtf" points when that someone is now a member of their family. I'm *not really* looking at anyone in particular here /sarcasm.

[dairyfreelife]

Today, I think most of the resentment comes from the way working class and poor Southerners are portrayed in the media/books/movies. We are portrayed as ass backwards, uneducated, stupid, ignorant, redneck hillbillies. And I have to say I agree with my fellow Southerners to an extent. It's almost biased in way. I mean do you see any other region of the country portrayed in a derogatory as often as the South is?

I grew up in Appalachia. I know the stereotypes and the response to go back to the days of slavery are not okay. I don't get the throwback to the civil war, but hear it a lot. Crazies here don confederate flags too, which never made sense because my state split to be part of the union on that war so why the confederate flag? I have come across a neo-nazi once, shaved head and nazi garb complete, when driving home from work. You tell me a place not stereotyped in some way negatively and then I will agree. I have professors from other parts of the country and they all contain backward, uneducated, stupid, ignorant people. Not all movies, books media portrays the south in a bad way. I have seen them purposely pick the worst people in my state to speak to the public at times and it does make us look bad, but I tend to think that if a few people on a tv program make you believe that everyone there is that way, you need to get more.

[Witsec7]

I grew up in Appalachia. I know the stereotypes and the response to go back to the days of slavery are not okay. I don't get the throwback to the civil war, but hear it a lot. Crazies here don confederate flags too, which never made sense because my state split to be part of the union on that war so why the confederate flag? I have come across a neo-nazi once, shaved head and nazi garb complete, when driving home from work. You tell me a place not stereotyped in some way negatively and then I will agree. I have professors from other parts of the country and they all contain backward, uneducated, stupid, ignorant people. Not all movies, books media portrays the south in a bad way. I have seen them purposely pick the worst people in my state to speak to the public at times and it does make us look bad, but I tend to think that if a few people on a tv program make you believe that everyone there is that way, you need to get more.

I am so guilty about stereotyping southerners. I post on a couple of forums populated by IFB southern males and I find myself using their characters to stereotype folks from the south. After spending a weekend in Hotlanta or reading a posts like these I realize I've got to shake that bad and irrational habit/thought process.

[JesusFightClub]

The antiCatholic shit is interesting. I grew up where that was completely normal. Who knew what the Fenians got up to? Whatever it was, it couldn't be good.

When I was older I made so many mistakes and I still worry about offending Catholic FJists. I blush at the sort of stupid crap which was common currency when I was a kid.

So it is not just the US South...

[PBrooke]

I am so guilty about stereotyping southerners. I post on a couple of forums populated by IFB southern males and I find myself using their characters to stereotype folks from the south. After spending a weekend in Hotlanta or reading a posts like these I realize I've got to shake that bad and irrational habit/thought process.

At least you're aware of it. I naturally have the American "regionless accent," but I grew up around various Southern accents enough to look past them. And there's a certain bias about different Southern accents that even I have to be aware of - it's classism, really. People think that since you have the "wrong" kind of accent, and are working class or have that craggy look that some people get from years in the sun, that you must be stupid, too. It's a dangerous way to think, and an easy way to wind up with egg on your face (not you, specifically, just in general).

[synchroswimr]

At least you're aware of it. I naturally have the American "regionless accent," but I grew up around various Southern accents enough to look past them. And there's a certain bias about different Southern accents that even I have to be aware of - it's classism, really. People think that since you have the "wrong" kind of accent, and are working class or have that craggy look that some people get from years in the sun, that you must be stupid, too. It's a dangerous way to think, and an easy way to wind up with egg on your face (not you, specifically, just in general).

My husband and I were talking about this the other day. We both realized a few years ago that we had an irrational bias against southern accents and have been working hard to fight our biases.

[Witsec7]

I spent some time at the Highlander Folk Institute my way back daze. It was there I first confronted my own bias against the south, southerners, and folks living in Appalachia. Somehow my contact with the IFB folks on that other forum has caused me to forget some life lessons.

[NurseNell]

I am so guilty about stereotyping southerners. I post on a couple of forums populated by IFB southern males and I find myself using their characters to stereotype folks from the south. After spending a weekend in Hotlanta or reading a posts like these I realize I've got to shake that bad and irrational habit/thought process.

My mother hated southerners and considered them lazy. She came from a family who'd been active abolitionists, and she had grown upon stories about white southerners. I moved to Alabama in 1977. OMG, it was so damn hot and humid. So I called my mother and told her southerners were not lazy, that she'd be just as lazy if she had to live in such an environment. I honestly do not know how slaves survived. To work in the fields in that heat and humidity is beyond what humans should have to do. I wonder now how I survived 3 years with no air conditioning.

[NurseNell]

[qNot all movies, books media portrays the south in a bad way. I have seen them purposely pick the worst people in my state to speak to the public at times and it does make us look bad, but I tend to think that if a few people on a tv program make you believe that everyone there is that way, you need to get more.

Fannie Flagg is one of my favorite authors and she celebrates the south in a good way. She recognizes its strengths and weaknesses.

[NurseNell]

As to the reasons for the Civil War....there are many. Some of which existed well before the Revolutionary War. It's a combination of states rights, slavery, and the stark contrast between North and South during the industrial revolution.

Yes, and "King" cotton.

[meda]

The antiCatholic shit is interesting. I grew up where that was completely normal. Who knew what the Fenians got up to? Whatever it was, it couldn't be good.

When I was older I made so many mistakes and I still worry about offending Catholic FJists. I blush at the sort of stupid crap which was common currency when I was a kid.

So it is not just the US South...

The funny thing is, I'm not, and my dad's family are not Catholic. There was simply an immediate assumption by people upon hearing my last name, which is a very obvious Irish surname, that I must also be Catholic. It was fun when they would start with the stupid comments to ot see the look of shock on people's faces when I responded with "I wouldn't know anything about that, my family is Methodist"

In response to PBrook, the anti Catholic stuff was not universal for me in the south, I didn't get it at all in Mississippi or Southern Louisiana, where there are large Catholic populations.

[NurseNell]

In contrast, I've seen people in small-town (all-white) Minnesota or Wisconsin use "the n-word" with regularity and not the slightest worry that they'll be given the side-eye - and they won't. So perhaps it's when you feel untouchable that ignorance and hatred breed in comfort.

I lived in a small town in northern WI from 1980 to 1989. I only heard the n word once, directed to my then 2 y.o. Afro-Colombian son. My son thought the man called him a snickers. The man got a piece of my mind. I've lived in MN since I left WI and while I'm in a city the only people using the n word are African American teenagers and some young adults. I frequently visit small towns, I never hear the word. The bigger prejudice I see both in WI and MN is against Native Americans because of fishing rights.

[NurseNell]

In response to PBrook, the anti Catholic stuff was not universal for me in the south, I didn't get it at all in Mississippi or Southern Louisiana, where there are large Catholic populations.

I was exposed to anti-Catholic stuff the 3 years in AL but having grown up in western New York it didn't bother me. I was the only Catholic in my grade from K until graduation. The Catholic church in our town was a mission church. When we moved there the neighbors weren't allowed to play with us because we were Catholic. When we were little our playmates were the Amish kids. We had school prayer from K thru 10th grade, when the law changed. The day always began with the Protestant form of the Our Father. I asked a few times if we could say the Catholic form or Hail Mary, and was told no in no uncertain terms. As a senior I was not allowed to go to the baccalaureate ceremony. As a young child I lived in fear of the KKK because they had come to Rochester and lit a cross at Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen's residence.

The area was largely Free Methodist with some ordinary Methodists and Baptists. There was Roberts Wesleyan College and Houghton College, very conservative colleges, and some kids went down to Bob Jones University.

Had I grown up with lots of Catholics who knows if I'd be Catholic today. But because of the way I was treated because of my Catholicism I became very proud to be one.